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Home » SOF History » Spetsnaz

Spetsnaz

by Mike Perry · August 5, 2012 · Posted In: SOF History
spetsnaz-group-alpha-at-beslan-school-siege-opt
Along with the initials KGB, the word Spetsnaz ranks as one of the best-known Soviet terms to come out of the Cold War. Movies and novels portrayed Spetsnaz as highly trained, bloodthirsty killers who knew no bounds and ended up getting wiped out before the screen faded to black or the final page turned.

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Truth sometimes imitated art, especially in the Soviet era, but beneath stigma and rumor laid a core of the best trained men the Soviet Union, now the Russian Federation, could produce.

Spetsnaz, or Special Purpose Units, is a broad term that encompasses elite units in both military and police forces.

Once a closely guarded secret, the beginning of Spetsnaz came after the Second World War. The GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate of the Armed Forces) underwent a reorganization in which independent special purpose reconnaissance companies were formed in 1949. These grew to battalions in 1957 and then to brigades averaging between 1,000 to 1,300 men in 1962.

There were two separate Spetsnaz-type brigades created for general warfare, Army and Naval.

An Army-based element consisted of a headquarters group, four parachute battalions, a communications company and logistics personnel. Their primary assignments were to carry out deep penetration missions hundreds of miles behind enemy lines against high value targets, such as American mobile tactical nuclear missiles based in Western Europe during the Cold War. Secondary missions included raids, prisoner snatches, sabotage, assassinations and guerilla warfare.

Naval Spetsnaz, which trained for maritime warfare, consisted of a headquarters group, three battalions of combat swimmers, and a parachute battalion. Midget submarines were also assigned to the brigade.

In typical Special Forces fashion, both Army and Navy were designed to operate in small detachments of about but not limited to eight men, with a much larger force capable of coming together on short notice.

One of the unique features of both GRU and Naval Spetsnaz was that each brigade contained an anti-VIP company of 70-80 men whose sole purpose was to assassinate military and political leaders. This capability was used more often than not against enemies of the Motherland.

Spetsnaz units concealed themselves among regular units by donning identical uniforms, with GRU teams sporting the blue beret of the VDV (airborne) as well as its camouflage and dress uniforms, while its Navy brethren wore sailor attire. This was standard practice to conceal identities and movement as well as numbers assigned in each service.

Spetsnaz numbers peaked during the 1980′s, when more than 30,000 men in 20 Army and Naval Brigades served along with dozens of independent companies, mainly in the Warsaw Pact states.

With the emergence of terror as a weapon in the early 1970′s, more specialized Spetsnaz units were created within other parts of the Soviet government.

Group ‘Alpha’ was created in 1974 as a 30-man counter-terror unit that came under exclusive control of the KGB (now FSB). Today they number about 700 and train in areas including but not limited to storming ships, buildings, aircraft and buses.

About 1/3 of the personnel are also experienced mountain climbers, and another 1/3 are combat divers.

In 1981 the group ‘Vympel’ was created – again, under KGB control. Vympel are the highest trained of any Spetsnaz, with each man specializing in different areas, such as flying aircraft, medicine, driving various armored vehicles, martial arts experts, expert marksmen, and fluency in up to 3 languages.

With an estimated strength of about 1,000, these men run operations similar to GRU Spetsnaz but in a more covert manner, in addition to providing a quick reaction force stationed to protect nuclear power plants in Russia.

Unlike GRU Spetsnaz, both Alpha and Vympel units sport maroon berets and often wear black combat uniforms, unless serving with other units where they don similar outfits.

The MVD (Interior Ministry) was the last to create their own version of Spetsnaz, drawn from rapid response, drug enforcement and prison guard teams. These Spetsnaz act as a kind of SWAT team, specializing in domestic counter-insurgency, counter-terrorism and border security, and make up some 25 units. These men wear a red beret along with the dress and camo uniforms of the ministry.

Selection requirements vary between GRU and Navy Spetsnaz, but the Spetsnaz training endured by the 150 to 170 recruits in each class includes:

  • Extreme Mental/Physical Conditioning
  • Forced Marches
  • Weapons Handling
  • Marksmanship
  • Long-Range Marksmanship
  • Explosives Training
  • Demolition
  • Climbing (Alpine Rope Techniques.)
  • Rappelling
  • Airborne Training
  • Counter-Terrorism
  • Bullying and Beatings (by instructors and by peers.) This is commonplace throughout the course.
  • Hand-to-Hand Combat (Using implements like bayonet and the famous Spetsnaz shovel)
  • Diving
  • Underwater Combat
  • Emergency Medical Training

Less than 5% end up passing

Those who graduate gain access to the best weapons and equipment Russia can provide, along with the best training. As one Spetnaz operator said, “You make the man a weapon.”

Those wishing to join Alpha or Vympel units must already be Spetsnaz and undergo further specialized training. While classified, this training is known to consist of daily 9km morning runs, followed up by 65 to 70 Km forced marches with combat loads approaching 40Kg (88lbs.) in freezing weather with little to no water.

There are two months of basic training and three to four years of advanced training before being allowed to join either group.

The MVD training course dispenses with some of the military fields but is still intense, with a 100 meter sprint, 12 Km cross-country running in full combat uniform, urban assault exercises with wall climbing, acrobatic exercises, and a 12 minute free-style sparring match with three separate opponents. Courses are held twice a year and less than 10% are known to be selected.

Spetsnaz in Afghanistan, 1988

Spetsnaz in Afghanistan, 1988

The use of Spetsnaz by the then Soviet Union included such notable actions as Operation Storm 333, where Alpha and a GRU unit led an assault against the Tajbeg Palace in Kabul, Afghanistan to assassinate President Hafizullah Amin and his 200 guards. This action began the invasion of the 40th Army of the country. A flood of Spetsnaz teams then rotated on a regular basis, plying their trade in the 8½ year war.

Naval Spetsnaz has also conducted their own clandestine actions, and was said to have come ashore at different times on the barren beaches of Alaska and neighboring islands.

The suspicious death of an Alaskan National Guard member in the 1980′s was said to occur when he stumbled upon a Spetsnaz unit dispatched from a mini-sub on Little Diomede Island. A piece of Soviet-made equipment was found near his body, and though there has never been confirmation or denial from the U.S. government about the incident, many Guard members were convinced the story was true.

In 1984, Vympel members were dispatched to Lebanon to aid in the recovery of Soviet diplomats kidnapped by Islamic terrorists. They got immediate results when they identified the leader of the terrorist group, killed and dismembered a family member, and sent him the parts threatening more to come. The diplomats were on their way back to the Soviet Union within hours.

When the Soviet Union dissolved and pangs of independence rang from such areas as Chechnya, Spetsnaz committed itself in the same manner as Afghanistan, rotating several units into the fighting that continues to this day. Chechnya has provided an environment for all types of Spetsnaz units to use their various specialties and gain valuable experience, in the same way the War on Terror has aided western Special Operations Forces.

Other Spetsnaz actions include the Moscow Theater siege, where a sleep agent was filtered through air conditioning vents, killing several terrorists but also many hostages. And the Beslan School siege, where Spetsnaz stormed a grade school seized by terrorists, resulting in a bloodbath of the gunmen and several hundred innocents.

Today Russia’s military power is a shadow of its former self, and its future is uncertain. But one thing appears certain: today’s 15,000 remaining Russian Spetsnaz can expect to be called on with regularity to combat threats against the Motherland, internal or external, as it struggles against itself to find a place in the world.

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RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

Hello is fellows! Recently in one of comments left on a web-site in the article the special "troops", I mentioned about the operation of Red Wings and that in the internet I found the photo of the lost serviceman, probably  lieutenant Майкл P. Мurphy.  I send her to you on a web-site, I can not say exactly, but alike, that it is a hero Navy Seal  lieutenant Michael P. Мurphy. Glory to the heroes!!! With kind regards! And here yet reference to video, where islamic monkeys examine the things of the guys .  of AB lost in a fight  http://rutube.ru/compat/tracks/2677931

Huch
Huch 5pts

I find it extremely hard to believe that story about the mini-sub and Little Diomede. I've been there (twice actually) and it doesn't make any sense. Little Diomede (US territory) is a tiny island that is only 3 miles from Big Diomede (Russian territory). 6 months out of the year the water between the two is frozen and you can walk it (there are regular snow mobile tracks between the 2) so there's no need to go through the trouble of a mini-sub.

 

Not to mention the fact that Little Diomede is a complete shit hole with no running water and rampant hepatitis, populated by 146 people living in shacks on the side of a mountain. It has zero to offer other than the fact that you can say you've been to one of the weirdest places in the world and looked into tomorrow (the international dateline runs between the 2 islands and time on Big Diomede is 22 hours ahead of Little Diomede even though they're so close). If the Russians were going to go through all the hassle of and risk of landing in AK, they could have just taken the sub another 25 miles east and landed on the mainland. 

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Huch

 Remember Big D is a Russian Military Res with a Detachment with visiting Spetz and Border Patrol. We both fucked with other. I have a friend who was an old O Company Ranger and he had lots of stories about parrying back in the early 70s. Our Intel knew when Spetz was in town and Im sure they knew when SEALs and Group went out towards Wales and Little D

RVN SF VET
RVN SF VET 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @HuchI agree. Besides, natives in that area of the world have relatives in both countries and are allowed to visit back and forth. Now there are islands that used to have Cold War significance and I can see a recon team coming ashore to try and figure out what we were doing. You can examine these islands with Google Maps. You will see abandoned buildings and structures that could have been listening posts for example. One or two of these islands is still inhabited. I would think that they have landed on the mainland of Alaska for practice to see how vulnerable we are. I don't know if the Alaska National Guard has retained its "Eskimo" Scout units. If they have, I wouldn't worry about infiltration in their areas. But, Alaska has an essentially infinite shoreline. The only constraint is landing somewhere near your targets.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @RVN SF VET  @Huch

 ADN had news reports often enough when people would call in about Russians. An article from ADN from the late 80s about Big D

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1828&dat=19891027&id=uYIgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=R8AEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3188,6492334

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @RVN SF VET

 There are plenty of reasons. Tin City is not far from both Islands and there are lots of undersea comms cables in the area. Usually when a call came in either a CG 130 or a Kulis 130 if Airborne would take a look. The stories existed well into the 90s. The 207th INF had Scouts but I think Bethel or Nome was the nearest Det. Well far away from the Diomedes.

ThomasBanachek
ThomasBanachek 5pts

 

 

All,

 

It will come as no surprise that Spetsnaz are running with al Qaeda and that one was picked up in the last seven days.

 

From tomorrow's issue of Threat Journal:

 

"Three suspected al-Qaeda terrorists; Cengiz Yalcin, Mohamed Adamov and Eldar Magomedov, are in the custody of Spanish police."

 

"One of the suspects, Eldar Magomedov, a Chechen-Russian, is reported to be a former member of the Russian special forces group Spetsnaz. He is also said to have subsequently attended training camps in AF/PAK, one of which is believed operated by the militant group Lashkar-e-Tayyiba. He is also said to have been active in terrorist operations in the AF/PAK region."

 

At the moment it appears they were planning to drop bombs on a crowd watching the Olympics at a mall in Gibraltar using either an ultralight or large RC aircraft.

 

Nasty.

 

http://threatjournal.com/archive/tj08092012.html

 

 

RVN SF VET
RVN SF VET 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

There are now so many comments that I may be out of sync now. But I just saw the comment concerning the decision that was made on Red Wing. I only wish to remind everyone that this decision has come up frequently in the past. In Iraq, both an SAS team and an SF team were compromised by young goat herders. As a result, the SAS team lost killed, wounded, and captured while the SF team managed to exfiltrate. Both teams were inserted in a hurry without protracted surveillance of the area. In 1965, a Marine Lance Corporal's unit was approached by a child holding a grenade with the pin pulled. He did not shoot, but jumped off the truck, grabbed the grenade, and safed it. Was that the right course of action? What would people think if his act had failed?

 

In the early days of SF, some of us were screened by taking a test left over from the OSS. The question of how to deal with children came up several times in the 2 hour exam. At least one of the situations involved whether or not you would rely upon help from a child in the course of an E & E. Of course, killing the kids or adult herders only buys you time - a precious commodity.

 

There is a 3rd option. Tie them up, gag them, and unass the area. That might buy the same amount of time that killing them would. A lot would hinge on your emergency extraction plan. I just thought of one good alternative. Give the kids a drug which knocks them out and erases their short term memory. Does the "date rape" drug do that?

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @RVN SF VET   Great post and alternatives to having to kill to exfil...good ?? on the date rape drug possibility.  Hope someone has an answer?    R6

RVN SF VET
RVN SF VET 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Recon6 I know nothing on this subject but this is what I've found.

Flunitrazepam ( /ˌfluːnɨˈtræzɨpæm/) is marketed as a potent hypnotic, sedative, anticonvulsant, anxiolytic, amnestic, and skeletal muscle relaxant drug [1] most commonly known as Rohypnol. An intermediate acting benzodiazepine, flunitrazepam is prescribed for the treatment of severe insomnia, marketed by Roche.

 

The effects of flunitrazepam are fairly long-acting. The sedative and toxic effects of Rohypnol are aggravated by concurrent use of alcohol. The drug’s effects begin within 30 minutes, peak within 2 hours, and may persist for up to 8 hours or more, depending upon the dosage. A single dose of Rohypnol, as small as 1 mg., can produce effects for 8-12 hours after ingestion. When combined with alcohol or other drugs, Rohypnol can impair judgment and motor skills and cause memory loss or blackouts (lasting 8 to 24 hours after ingestion). Loss of inhibition can also occur, with or without alcohol. A person under the influence of Rohypnol can appear to be drunk, display no coordination, bloodshot eyes and slurred speech. Sedation can occur as soon as 20 minutes after ingestion. The drug's effects will peak within 2 hours and may persist for up to 8 hours or more, depending on the dosage. Other adverse effects associated with flunitrazepam include visual disturbances, drowsiness, confusion, decreased blood pressure, memory impairment, gastrointestinal disturbances and urinary retention. When mixed with alcohol, Rohypnol may cause respiratory depression, aspiration or even death. Although classified as a depressant, Rohypnol can rarely induce excitability or aggressive behavior. The drug can cause profound "anterograde amnesia"; that is, individuals may not remember events they experienced while under the effects of the drug. This may be why one of the street names for Rohypnol is "the forget-me pill."

 

I am sure that the right mixture could be concocted, if the spooks haven't already done it. I'm guessing that mixing it with ketamine might ensure the desired effect. Some caution on dosage versus body weight is probably essential. It would be funny if the elders accused the kids of messing with ketamine which is used in many current areas of SOF operations. Please pass the styrette, sergeant.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Matt2   Yea, now my head is swirling with all sorts of ideas where a memory lapse on her part could result in some much "needed" items, lol.

6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @RVN SF VET   Thanks brother.  That certainly sounds like an alternative to terminating in instances like those in our discussion.  That would have allowed an amount of time for exfil and further satiated the need for no collateral damage.  Thanks for the research, greatly appreciated...R6

John Meyer
John Meyer 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Great story.

Thank you Mike Perry and SOFREP for lifting the veil on Spetsnaz with a factual, timely piece.

Well done.

Salute.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

https://twitter.com/AndyBoldyrev  https://www.facebook.com/AndreBoldyrev  Fellows here my accounts are in the internet, if there will be what or questions establish connections. Hoo-yaa!!!

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

 @AndrewBoldyrev https://www.sealswcc.com/forums/member.php?5443-Andy

usapatriotonthemove
usapatriotonthemove 5pts

Good read, thanks guys!

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

SUBDIVISIONS of the SPECIAL SETTING, THEMDESTINY AND BASES OF BATTLE APPLICATION

Subdivisions of the special setting(separation, group, company, detachment of СпН) enter in the complement of military parts of СпН. On their basis the reconnaissance organs of the special setting are formed: reconnaissance groups(РГ СпН) and reconnaissance detachments(РО of СпН). РГ СпН and РО of СпН is intended for implementation of reconnaissance, special tasks in the rear of opponent, realization of the special events on his most essential objects, helping in organization of partisan motion and implementation of other special tasks.

Tasks of organs of СпН:

Reconnaissance:it is getting of information about the most essential objects of opponent, dissection of character of his actions and intentions, operative situation, state of locality and weather terms in interests providing of battle actions and application of decimators of the troops.

Special:it is elimination(outcommissioning) or capture of important objects of opponent, large military leaders, visible political statesmen, standards of secret weapon, technique, documents;it is disorganization of work of rear of opponent, destruction of his communications with the purpose of blowing off the systematic transfer of troops and material facilities;it is helping in organization of motion of resistance(partisan motion) in the rear of opponent.

In interests the luing-ins of troops :it is the radionavigation providing, aiming of aviation, denotation and highlight of aims, adjustment of shots of aviation, fire of artillery, confirmation of effectiveness of their actions;it is a search and elimination of aviation of opponent by application of спецсредств.

for providing of internal safety of the state :it is non-admission(suppression) antistate or to another activity of the insurgent, mutinous or illegal armed forming(НВФ), sent to the change of the political, state system Russian Federation his territorial integrity.

other tasks:-поисково-спасательные(search, rescue or evacuation of servicemen or citizens, being taken prisoner, disappearing without a new or appearing in the rear of opponent on other reasons);- psychological(demoralization and disorientation of personnel of opponent, declension of him to the collaboration, stopping of resistance, desertion or handing over in a captivity);it is participating in peacemaking operations on maintenance of the world and providing of humanitarian help to the foreign states;it is providing of guard and safety of large military leaders, visible political and state figures.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

Realization of any operation of battle swimmers is impossible unassisted the special scientific subdivisions. They give exact information about hydrographical terms in the district of landing(about undercurrents, relief of coastline, comfortable going near a bank, defilades dangerous for people marine inhabitants, about a temperature and transparency of water, about time and force of fluxes and refluxes and other great deal). They carry out underwater connection with swimmers, provide their hydroacoustic lighthouses, orient on a location, carry out the hidden pelting and reception hard-over. More often than all subdivision of hardware are aboard "research" ships(before are Academies of sciences of the USSR, now - Russian АН) or in the secret compartments of floating plants on processing of fish, crabs, shrimps, squid etc. 

As far as it is known, the scale of urgent tasks, standing before the battle swimmers of detachments of ПДСС of all fleets, "Dolphin" and "Pennant", was enormous. In case of beginning of war the soviet marine special troops had to put out of action the system of anti-submarine defensive in Атлантике, Pacific ocean and Mediterranean, to carry out diversions in the centers of management and connection of basic marine connections of countries NATO, to block the front-rank operating bases of easy forces(cutters, paratrooper-amphibian connections, спецсредств, anti-submarine forces etc.), landing for this purpose from transport submarine boats, from commercial and commercial ships under stranger flags, from airplanes and helicopters, or being neglected into suitable places yet to beginning of war. In short, the marine special troops had to inflict blow on all marine theatres, wherein the use of nuclear weapon was not envisaged...

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

the personnel of detachments of ПДСС takes mainly from a number marine infantrymen-volunteers. A candidate must be emotionally balanced, able to stay calm in extreme situations, to be not afraid of darkness, loneliness, reserved space. He must maintain large physical activities, it is good to carry immersion on considerable depths and overfalls of pressure. If psychological tests and medical commission are passed, a candidate becomes a student. Base preparation that lasts half-year(26 weeks) and divided by 3 stages begins farther.The first stage occupies 7 weeks. An educational day is counted on 15 hours. Students hurry cross-country races on distant distances, float, engage in rowing, overcome the stripe of obstacles. Loading increase every day, and requirements become all harder. In addition, instructors, conducting employments, systematic arrange different hindrances in the job processing. For example, pour out on water and set on fire oil, or on a swimming by log blow up the charge of explosive... In the last(7th) week check up ability of students to maintain maximum physical and psychical activities. At this time on a dream taken no more than 3-4 clock in twenty-four hours. Students accomplish марш-бросок with a complete letup on 100 kilometres, and also swimming in a protective waterproof suit on 10 miles(18,5 kilometres), towing here a load weighing to 40 kg By estimation, on the average this stage passes to the end only one of 15-20 students.

The second stage lasts 11 weeks. During his students study a diving equipment, mine-explosive business, tactics of battle operations of small groups in water and on earth, bases of military secret service, radiobusiness, seize a plain and fire weapon(both serial and special). Parachute preparation, rock-climbing, идут then, management by submarine, surface and surface transport vehicles(for example, electro-tow). Certainly, prominent position is taken to the study and working off different actions under water, methods of penetration from under water in the set district...Quite a bit time spared to the hand-to-hand fight on land and especially under water with a knife(ordinary and by a needle). Fellows carefully work off the receptions of the shock, traumatic and mortal affecting opponent.During implementation of different educational-battle tasks there is a selection of members of subdivisions of battle swimmers. Sense is here in that every such subdivision(pair, three, four et cetera) must operate exactly and clearly, as the single well debugged mechanism. And it requires the mutual "grinding" in in the process of joint employments.

Making off the second stage of educating, students hand over a test on the defensive of coastal objects and ships from the swimmers-saboteurs of opponent. This test, it is better to say is examination, takes place during the manoeuvres built as a model of battle operation. Ability to work under water on different depths(oriented, look after in the conditions of zero-zero, conduct a fight, pursue an enemy, unstuck from pursuit, mask on soil etc.) is here checked up. Successfully handing over a test send in the separate brigade of marines for fixing of the acquired habits. It is the third stage, he lasts 8 weeks. Experience instructors control students every day. Then one battle swimmers remain in a brigade, other go back into detachments of ПДСС, where they passed educating. And it is suggested most capable to pass the two year educating in the special reconnaissance-diversionary center. This superelite is prepared for realization of the most difficult and responsible operations. All of them are officers.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Gentlemen if who takes interest here about the shooting knife of secret service agent:

A knife of НРС- 2 is means of attack and defence in infighting, combining functions plain and fire weapon. Однозарядное shooting device accommodated in a handle knife, allows to conduct the noiseless and flameless firing the special cartridges of СП- 4 on distance is a to 25 m. A knife-blade is made from high-quality stainless steel. With a help knife of НРС- 2 it is possible without the special efforts: -резать and to plane wooden objects; - перепиливать steel прутки a diameter a to 10 mm; - to cut with a steel wire a diameter a to 2,5 mm, свитую in 2 tendons; - to cut with a telephone cable a diameter a to 5 mm; - to cut electric live a wire to 400 In; - вворачивать and turn away screws a diameter an over 6 mm; - to wring out капсули-детонаторы. For the exception of casual shots, including at falling and shots, there are safety devices. A knife is completed a pendant and fastening allowing to place him on different area bodies. 

ТТХ: Caliber fire devices, mm 7,62 Initial velocity of bullet, m/s 185...200 Battle rapidity of fire, выстр/mines 2 Overall sizes, mm without scabbards 332х65х34 without scabbards 284х54х34 Mass of bullet, g 10 Mass of cartridge, g 24 Mass of knife, g : in scabbards 620 without scabbards 350

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

http://www.navy.su/navyfrog.htm

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

http://www.navy.su/navyfrog/other/marina/images/marina 0.jpg  Length is a 7800 mmШирина is a 600 mmA height is a 1000 mmMass is 900 kgSpeed of motion is from 2 to 4 knotsA depth of motion is to 40 metersDistance of swimming is 8 milesNoninteraction - 2 hours. On the base of vehicles "Siren" was worked out and start in a production three-seater submarine vehicle(STEP) of "Марина" with the mobile complex of facilities of hardware for effective realization of diving works on depths to 40 meters in the conditions of the unequipped coast at: · search, inspection and getting up of the sunken objects;· to secret service and development of minerals of off-shore shelf;· рыбопромысловых works;· submarine-technical operations, related to building of different submarine building, gasket and revision of submarine cables and pipelines;· different oceanographic researches.  In addition, the lovers of submarine marine walks and hunt can with success use "Marina" as a transport vehicle, delivering mass of positive emotions and pleasure, exposing the surprizing and insufficiently known submarine world. New to STEP able to provide: · automatic exit and possibility of hanging up on the depths set by a skin-diver;· automatic stabilizing of the set depth of motion and course;· high manoeuvrability and speed of submarine motion. A diving compartment protects skin-divers from an appearing suddenly stream, provides the panorama of review and creates comfort terms.  For the navigation of STEP гирополукомпас and magnetic compass is used, that allow to be reliably oriented under water. Safety of swimming is arrived at by placing of crew in a booth and system of the emergency emerging, that throws down an aquatic ballast. The system has a hand and automatic drive that is started going under reaching the set depth.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

Basic ТТХ of automat submarine special АПС: A caliber is 5,66 мм. for Slaughter distance in meters at firing on a depth a 5 m - 30; 20 m - 20; 30 m - 10 m. Weight of automat with a shop is 2,7 kg; without a shop are 2,4 kg; equipped by the cartridges of МПС are 3,4 kg the Overall sizes are 614х65х187 мм. Capacity of shop is 26 cartridges. Libra of cartridge - 26 Length of cartridge is a 150 mm; bullets-needles are 120 мм. Rate of firing is 500 shots in a minute. Initial velocity of flight of bullet-needle on air is 365 meters in a sec., and in water 250 m/ss. Dispersion of needles at firing on air from distance a 30 m - 15 см. for Slaughter distance at firing on air is saved a to 100 m., but aiming at a running around bullet, practically eliminated on this distance.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

Basic ТТХ of the special submarine pistol of СПП-1М : For slaughter distance of defeat in water on a depth, m : a to 5 m - 17(aiming - 5-7 м); to 10 m - 14; to 20 m - 11; to 40 m - 6 m; on air - 50(aiming - 15). Libra of pistol with 4 cartridges, kg - 0, 95. Length, mm - 244. Width, mm - 25. A height, mm, is 138. Libra, gs : patron СПС - 18; needles of СПС - 13,2. General length of ammunition of СПС, mm - 145. Length of needle, mm - 115. For АПС and СПП-1М is used patron МПС. A cartridge is a 5,45х39 mm, needle 120 мм. Боекомплект СПП-1М makes 16 cartridges in holders and 4 in a barrel. A pistol is fastened on the belt of battle swimmer in the special holster from leatherette. He is completed adaptation for loading of cartridges in holders, by a half-length strap and three metallic pencil-cases for carrying from place to place of the equipped holders.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Organizationally the special Troops of ВМФ consist of four Marine Reconnaissance Points(МРП) on Fleets consisting of a few companies of different specialization. МРП in turn submit to secret Service of Fleet, but operatively locked on ГРУ ГШ to SS of Russia. For implementation of such most difficult urgent tasks the special Troops ВМФ have now on an armament: special and noiseless pistols,automats and knives for battle actions on land and under water(ПСС, ПБ, АПБ; АКС-74М with ГП- 3 and НСПУ- 3, АКМС with ПБС, СПП-1М, АПС, НРС- of 2 and other),special marine and land mines of different power and various methods of delivery(СПМ, УПМ of and other),individual and group submarine carriers of divers("Proton", "SIREN-MIND" of and other) with freight containers(КТ- 2, МКТ of and other),parachutes of ordinary types and diver(Д- 6, ПО-9, СВП- 1 with ПВ- of 3 and other)respiratory vehicles of the reserved cycle and open type(ИДА-71У, ИДА-75П, АВМ- 5 and other),powerful and sensible carried(ground) wireless stations and submarine hydroacoustic stations of underwater connection(МГВ-6в of and other),reconnaissance apparatus and other modern armament and military technique of the special setting.Subdivisions of battle swimmers can be delivered to the place of conduct of battle actions three of(or by their combination) different ways : by a surface variant, десантироваться by an air(by means of parachutes from the airplanes of W and on assault from helicopters) and marine method(from submarine boats, surface vessels and cutters of ВМФ of Russia). 

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

All hello of lady and gentlemen! Here a bit about the marine special troops of Russia

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @AndrewBoldyrev Добро пожаловать домой!

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior Hello  is a brother, here decided a bit to add about the marine special troops, people take interest

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

Special troops of ВМФ(Special secret service of ВМФ) - it it is the especially prepared subdivisions of Armed forces of Russia, intended for realization of diversionary operation and conduct of the special secret service on seashore directions in interests ВМФ and ГРУ. Organizationally the special troops of ВМФ consist of marine reconnaissance items of Special secret service, intended for realization of operations of the special importance. Territorial marine reconnaissance points submit разведуправлениям staff of fleets, and in an operative submission are at ГРУ ГШ. In a war-time on the bases of МРП development of separate brigades of the special troops is envisaged. Composition of the special troops of ВМФ : it is a 42th marine reconnaissance point(island Russian, bay Халулай, р-н Vladivostok, ТОФ); it is a 420th marine reconnaissance point(п. Arctic, р-н of Murmansk, СФ); it is a 431th marine reconnaissance point(Туапсе, ЧФ); it is a 561th marine reconnaissance point(п. Wind-driven р-н Балтийск, Kaliningrad обл, БФ). In official records a fighter СпН ВМФ is named secret service "diver-agent". On an armament have: 5.45мм automats of АК- 74 and his modifications, 5,66 mm the submarine special automats of АПС, 5.45 mm двухсредные automats of АДС, 9 mm the special noiseless automats ACE "Billow", 9 mm pistols of АПБ, 7.62 mm the special pistols of ПСС, 4.5 mm submarine pistols of СПП- 1(СПП- 1 М), various standards of sniper weapon, means of mining/of the mine clearing, technical equipments of secret service, communication mean, легководолазное equipment(respiratory vehicles of the including reserved regenerative type of ИДА- 71 and СГВ- 98, protective waterproof suits, masks, flippers and т. of п.), technical equipments of delivery to the marine and coastal objects of opponent(inflatable boats, two-seater tow of divers "Siren" and "Сирена-УМЭ", three-seater tow of divers of "Марина", tow of divers of "Сом-1" and "Сом-3", "Протей-5М" and "Протей-5МУ", "Proton" and "Протон-У", group шестиместные tow of divers is "Cluster"). If necessary in a time of implementation of the special operations can detachments of secret service "divers-agents" airplanes, helicopters, surface vessels and submarine boats, are given. Submarine boats are used for the achievement of maximal secrecy of landing of battle swimmers. Battle swimmers can land from submarine boats through torpedo-tubes on small to motion or at being of them on soil. At landing of saboteurs in motion preliminary on the surface of water the special buoy connected with a submarine boat by a trailing and directing line is produced. Holding on to him, swimmers emerge and towed after a buoy on short knittles to wedging of all group or getting up out inflatable boat. The exit of battle swimmers from a lying on soil boat is produced from a depth a 20-30 m at favourable relief of bottom. In addition, together with battle swimmers through a torpedo-tube the exit of tow is provided. A method of exit of tow from a torpedo-tube can be anything. It is possible to charge tow of divers in a torpedo-tube together with divers and then to chuck out outside a barbell pushrod, and then to start screws. And it is possible in one vehicle to charge tow, from other to produce a diver and again to chuck out tow by a barbell pushrod that is included in the regular equipment of boat. Surface vessels(mainly speed-boats) are used for delivery of battle swimmers, when secrecy does not play a primary role the performance of objective, for example for strengthening of defensive of submarine building and other objects in a limit district. Cutters, including десантно-высадочные cutters on an air pillow, are able to accept hard-over to 20 and more than persons with a complete equipment. They can be delivered to the coast of opponent on landings ships-authorities and then produced through authorities-chambers to the district of battle actions. Airplanes and helicopters are used at a necessity rapid delivery of battle swimmers on considerable distances from bases. Presently parts of the special secret service of ВМФ of Russia continue to perfect the level of the combat training. About ПДСС(detachments of fight against submarine diversionary forces and facilities) are subdivisions in composition ВМФ, the task of that is counteraction to the diversions on a fleet, search and rendering of submarine forces and facilities harmless both on territory of naval base and on the corps of ships, checking for durability of marine borders, "mining" and "driving" away of ships. Detachments of fight with ПДСС are formed in every naval base. Their quantity makes from 30 to 120 persons is, as a rule, from the platoon of divers-mine-layers, platoon of battle swimmers and command of radiotricians. Territorial they are inferior to the commander of naval base, and operatively - to the chief of department of anti-submarine fight of management of the combat training of fleet. Composition About ПДСС: 160th ООБ ПДСС(Видяево, СФ) :60 persons 269th ООБ ПДСС(Гаджиево, СФ) :60 persons 313 ООБ ПДСС(пос. Companion, Кольский п-ов, СФ) :60 persons 311th ООБ ПДСС(Petropavlovsk, ТОФ) :60 persons 313th ООБ ПДСС(Балтийск, БФ) :60 persons 473th ООБ ПДСС(Kronshtadt, БФ) :60 persons 102th ООБ ПДСС(Sevastopol, Ukraine, ЧФ) :60 persons In official records a fighter About ПДСС is named "Battle swimmer". On an armament have: 5.45мм automats of АК- 74 and his modifications, 5,66 mm the submarine special automats of АПС, 5.45 mm двухсредные automats of АДС, 9 mm the special noiseless automats ACE "Billow", 9 mm pistols of АПБ, 7.62 mm the special pistols of ПСС, 4.5 mm submarine pistols of СПП- 1(СПП- 1 М), various standards of sniper weapon, hand antidiversionary grenade launchers of "ДП-64", млогабаритные remote-controlled antidiversionary grenade launcher complexes "ДП-65", facilities of mining/of the mine clearing, technical equipments of discovery and to the продиводействия saboteurs, communication means, легководолазное equipment(respiratory vehicles of the including reserved regenerative type of ИДА- 71 and СГВ- 98, protective waterproof suits, masks, flippers and etc.)

EdisonSimoni
EdisonSimoni 5pts

 @AndrewBoldyrev 

thnx Andrei.What about  810 OBR Cossachka?61OBR sputnik?77OGBR Kaspiisk?

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @EdisonSimoni It is the conditional names of settlements with the numbers of brigades of the marine special troops

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

 @EdisonSimoni SF "maroon berets"

EdisonSimoni
EdisonSimoni 5pts

 @AndrewBoldyrev 

Morpex or SPN?

EdisonSimoni
EdisonSimoni 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Nice article overall.Army GRU number alone are huge and i think them more in Ranger fashion but they have great mobility skills in mountains and hard terrain on all conditions.Read few accounts somewhere that in Astan in 80's they used to be inserted by helicopter and then go by their own long way.

As someone before mentioned the Tadjbek palace raid was some sort of successful but reveiled also shortcomings.You had "GROM" (alfa) guys who had the AK74s at that time while "Zenith"(vimpel) were armed with 47's and a lot of ricochet from them.Then you had the Muslim battalion Tursunkulov's group which didnt have CQB training at all and somehow had to improvise.As for the victims they had to do it in secrecy and also didnt go there for hostage rescue but...The command chain first was kinda fucked up but on the final stage of operation Andropov decided to step in and put all in the hands of major general Yurij Drozdov (tough mofo still alive).

 

Vympel was formed in 1981 manned by officers only,literally the real hit squad there that was to act outside SU when shit hit the fan.It was ruined in early 90's by Yeltsin because of insubordination and has had difficulties till Vlad the Impaler took them back to FSB and they focussed on counterterror and action inside Russia.Vympel has lost more man than Alpha in recent years and in Beslan it lost quite some important man.

 

The navy guys are the real mystery here.They exist but you dont find pix of them unless they are hidden through naval infantry.However chechens shit in their pants when they heard Morpech were going after them.they call them Ciornie Shmert- Black death.

 

If somebody interested i can give few links

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts

 @EdisonSimoni  Great post, very interesting!  Thanks    R6

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @EdisonSimoni Put up some links that would be great

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts

 @ArcticWarrior  @EdisonSimoni Copy that AW, additional links would be awesome!   6

EdisonSimoni
EdisonSimoni 5pts

 @ArcticWarrior  @EdisonSimoni

its not letting me to paste links but ill try somehow.

Regarding SHTURM333 you should google "Woodrow Wilson international center for scholars - Inside the soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the seizure of Kabul december 1979" Is very informative and full of accounts of the operators.

 

Another great read was few years ago on www.militaryphotos.net when one day a poster called 16OBRSPN (which stands for 16th spetsnaz brigade) began posting and answering questions in was a great read

You can find the thread in question by google,search for "Spetsnaz had defeated the Mujahidden by the summer of 1986"  look for posts from 16ObrSpn

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

damn. what sick fuckers. killing and dismembering the body of a man. whats the difference from a cartel member?

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @kevinnash87 Well, in an extremely harsh way it makes sense if you want whoever is fucking with you to stop. I don't like it and wouldn't like it if that was how the U.S. did it but I understand...

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts

 @HugeFan Former ST6 member Chuck Pfarrer referenced this incident in his book "Soul Warrior." Reading his book at times made me wonder how much literary license was taken, but I was left with the feeling that most of it was factual. The Lebanon experience as he described it was not a good one. Regarding the dismemberment, Pfarrer admired the results, if not the methods. Lebanon was an ugly wild west show. 

This comment has been deleted

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts

 @HugeFan

 sure, you can kidnapp the  kid of a terrorist and send a harsh message. however, as soldiers we/they have morals. fighting with pride, dignity and honor is what makes this great. the minute you start fighting dirty, everything goes downward...youre no longer a soldier; just a common thug like the cartels, ms-13 gangsters, KKK etc...

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts

 @kevinnash87  @ArcticWarrior  @Recon6 Okay, so what is your view of Brandon Webb calling in CAS while taking direct fire from insurgents while in AFG? Once he called the mountain movers in, he then heard a baby cry. Even wrote about how it made him feel. That's bad luck, right there. For him as a father and that poor child; "The difference between bad guys and good guys is whether one uses human shields or one makes their self the sheild". It wasn't B's decision that there be a child there.

 

If the element he was with could have just used their primaries to combat the enemy then I am sure that they would have, but the superior numbers I'm sure forced his element's hand, so they threw down with CAS. Frankly, IF he heard the baby cry BEFORE calling it in I still couldn't blame him for calling in the strike. A group of soldiers getting wiped out for an infant's life sounds romantic but it is not a sound tactical decision. Our soldiers are heroes to us and to the Afghan people as they DO repeatedly put themselves between the bad guys and the innocent the majority of the time. Yet, one cannot be 100% altruistic in war and combat 100% of the time.

 

I recall having this same discussion a couple months ago on a different thread and was firmly routed in your camp,  mistakenly believing that war could be like a John Wayne flick but I've been doing a lot of reading and I'm starting to see that the 'Black' is separated from the 'White' by about 10 light years of shitty, splotchy FUBAR 'Grey'. I agree with you intellectually brother, do not misunderstand that; but when the rubber meets the road civility has a snowball's chance in Hell of being maintained. Take it with a grain of salt...

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

 @kevinnash87  @Recon6  @HugeFan 28.6.2005 date of survey

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts

@kevinnash87@Recon6@HugeFan

In a search engine Google collected the query of photo of Red Wings Ops, a kill soldier lies on one photo, he was surrounded by hadjs, on a jacket round stripe, a self photo is done to view with video, a number and year mark, I can throw down a photo to you, want through an e-mail or as it will be comfortably you write

 

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts

 @AndrewBoldyrev  @Recon6  @HugeFan

 where did you find the photo?

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @kevinnash87  @HugeFan Found a photo in the internet of kill   Michael P. Murphy, horror, after it to talk about mercy to these satanists - never.In all saw a lot, but to death of friends so not got used

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @AndrewBoldyrev  @kevinnash87  @HugeFan   Andrew, I am in agreement.  Having only read the book, and not being on the ground, I actually expected them to eliminate the threat when encountered.  I did not expect them to allow the shepherds to  move on, thus the final results.   R6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @kevinnash87  @ArcticWarrior  Kevin, did you Miss AW's post above?  I.E. Sniping was at one time considered barbarism!  Each of us here has issued agreement on utilizing children, non combatants etc.  Your rant is misplaced or did I miss something?    6

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @kevinnash87  @Recon6 The majority of Americans in Conflict nearly always use due dillegence witn non combatants in the battlespace, but sometimes the script doesnt go as planned. Kevin you might want to look at the current ROE for Reaper strikes in Pakistan and how body counts are tallied.

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts

 @HugeFan  @Recon6

 according to them, they were fighting in a war. pol pot was in war with the intellectuals, al qaeda says they were provoked first. and the nazis were a direct decendents of WWI.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts

 @ArcticWarrior  @kevinnash87   AW, Fuckn' A Rec'd !

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @kevinnash87  @Recon6 "doing anythign to win a war" led people to 9-11, my lai, the masscres of central america, pol pot, the nazi extermination of the jews..."

 

I disagree with that statement because Pol Pot, Al Queda and the Nazis STARTED wars by by being brutes, they did NOT try to end them. War was what gave them power, so they perpetuated it.

 

I do agree that we should try to be diligent when engaged in a fight about whose the enemy and who isn't but I'm standing with R6 and AW on this. They have been there and they DO know what it takes. Their points of view trump ours IMO.

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @Recon6

 dude, im not talking about sniping or other types of warfare...im talking about killing innocent people, using kids as concrete walls, beating innocent people up...things like that. anyone who murders or tortures innocent people are cowards.

RedSpecnaz
RedSpecnaz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @kevinnash87  @HugeFan I would like to express my opinion, war always was and will be dirty and not thankful business. If to adhere to the civilized looks in war with an opponent, we simply will put these under the blow of the people. As a wolf do not feed, he will always look in the forest. As well and humanely do not apply with civil on war, if you not on their side, they will inform it and all command can perish(what happened in case with the operators of navy seals in the operation of Red Wings province of Кунар). In due form prosecutions of reconnaissance and diversionary war, shepherds that found out a group must leave to Allah, but operators did not do it, they were not psychologically ready to it, for it paid off. Excuse if expressed rudely, did not want to offend memory about your guys, but a like was and in Chechnya. 

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @kevinnash87  @Recon6 At the Tea Party they dressed as Natives, they didnt even man up to it. The Irregulars and Militias routinely sniped British Officers, which at that time was barbaric and horrific. The notion of warfare as gentlemanly and chivalrous is a pipe dream from some Victorian Era poet.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @kevinnash87  @Recon6  @HugeFan That is all true, however Sniping was considered barbaric and animalistic not all that long ago. Same for submarine warfare, it was considered an act of atrocity in WW1. As for Kids, you may want to look into what the blue coat pony soldiers did to Native American children who were unarmed on December 29, 1890. Remember it was Americans who commited the greatest act of Ethnic Cleansing. Things arent all they seem and R6 nailed it withhis explanation.

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @HugeFan

 i under stand. however, there is a distinct line between survival and plain evil. "doing anythign to win a war" led people to 9-11, my lai, the masscres of central america, pol pot, the nazi extermination of the jews etc...once we go down the path we become the savages, the hitlers, and bin ladens.  

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior   AW, Great quote from FMJ, lol, one of my all time favorites, "you just don't lead 'em so much"! is Classic.  Not dehumanizing my enemy, I actually had a couple of SVN friends.  However, as I mentioned in previous posts, it was the 'Yards who were the Best.  Little bastards (affectionately) got some payback for the way they were treated by the South!

I agree on the 'morality' issue since I had a good friend who "actually" did take ears and was proud of it!  He was also proud of killing an innocent farmer working in his rice paddy one day.  At the time I could care less, not my problem.

R6

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @Recon6

 samuel adams never used kids as concrete walls. sure, morality is subject of opinion. however, most cultures believe that using a child as a human bomb is generally not good.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @kevinnash87  @HugeFan   Kevin, I find your position interesting, however, I posit that War is inherently Evil.  I won't sugar coat this, when I was younger and involved in combat my 'only' goal was to destroy my enemy, period.  Some of the methods were up close and personal, however, they were expedient.  We did not involve  non-combatants, however, we did have 'free fire' zones and Anyone in that area was considered the enemy, enough said.

Personally, I do not believe in 'clean' war.  I wish Marcus and his team had done what was required, therefore giving his team a better chance at survival.

As for POW's and torture, fuck the Geneva Convention.  Long before my first mission in VN it was decided we Would Not be captured, period.  We came damn close on several occasions and had simply adopted the attitude that we will take a shitload of them with us.

"Fighting the good Fight", is something I equate to sports, not killing.  I would have killed anyone in any manner necessary, and did, to ensure my team mates lived to return home.  One cannot sanitize War, it is Evil, however as long as mankind shall endeavor to destroy another, I will do so to whatever extent necessary.  Bro, I am sorry this got me going, as an old man you can tell it is a 'hot button' issue with me.  It is also something I live with every day of my life and perhaps will answer for some day, till then I rest assured I did Everything possible and my friends came Home.     R6

 

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6 George the IIIrd thought of Samuel Adams as a terrorist as did many in Parliament in 1773. One mans insurgency can be anothers freedom fight. Its also dependent upon culture. In many Northern Plains Natives culture it was not unusual to remove the heart from the vanquished and leave a desecrated body, and many meso-americans believed in human sacrifice of the enemy. Morality is subjective, not everyone subscribes to Jefersonian Democratic principles, doesnt make us right or wrong, its just apples and oranges. I didnt have a problem with the MC SS team urinating, I had an issue with putting out on social media. I have seen first hand photos from family collections of really crazy stuff done to the enemies dead, and that was done by the "Greatest Generation". Were not  apple pie all the time, we can put major suck on people no diffferent then anyone else.

As far as soldiers this is from a script in Hollywood but its life as a grunt and always gets a smirk from me, and 6 Im sure you can relate.

 

Door Gunner: You should do a story about me sometime!

Joker: Why should we do a story about you?

Door Gunner: 'Cause I'm so fucking good! That ain't no shit neither. I done got me 157 dead Gooks killed and fifty water buffalo too! They were all certified.

Joker: Any women or children?

Door Gunner: Sometimes!

Joker: How do you shoot women and children?

Door Gunner: Easy! You just don't lead 'em so much! Haha! Ain't war hell?

kevinnash69
kevinnash69 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @HugeFan

 fighting dirty is just another name of terrorism. sure, you can torture someone and extract info...but is it moral? is it what you stand for? if you were a prisoner, would you want to be treated the same? fighting with honor means fighting the good fight. this means not slaughtering civilians etc..."whatever  is required" can lead to terrorism. marcus luttrell could have killed the kid and his father, it would have saved his teammates lives, however, he didnt because he new deep down inside it was wrong.   using kids as walls is required in order for you to be not fired upon....there is a distinct  line between doing what is required and terrorism. its very easy for a soldier to turn into the thing that he hates the most...

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @kevinnash87  @HugeFan  Kevin, "fighting dirty" ?  The issue of personal war fighting can open a can of worms.  What is "fighting with pride, dignity and honor"?  Or is it simply doing whatever is 'required' to bring your team and buddies home?  Just saying...R6

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    • In the IDF, 'Lonely Soldier' is a term that describes soldiers serving on active duty who have no family is Israel. These are volunteers that came to serve for 3-5 years. They typically go back to their respective countries upon completion. Most commonly, these are people who immigrated to Israel by themselves. I was one of them. While in Israel, I lived in an apartment building where the majority of people were lonely soldiers. It was located on the outer ring of Jerusalem, surrounded by four Arab villages. My roommates were two recon guys (like me) and one who worked in field intel. All of the other inhabitants were soldiers from various units, with most of them serving a combat role. It was a well known thing, especially to the Arabs in the village. Most of the time we wouldn't be there, but when we were on leave, we would come to the apartment for a little R&R. It was rare that the four of us were there at the same time, but once in a blue moon, it did happen. Each village had, as is customary, its own mosque. When the time for prayer came, the loudspeakers would call out to the faithful. It was OK, we were used to it. However, over the weekend they would make it a point to play the call to prayer very, and I mean VERY, loud. They knew soldiers would be in the building trying to get some sleep - recovering from several weeks in the field. This always annoyed me but there was nothing I could do. On this particular weekend, after an intense seven weeks of non-stop ops, all I wanted was to go to the apartment, sleep, eat, sleep some more and then sleep again. That weekend the four of us were at the apartment and we were all equally tired. We arrived Thursday night and after a small dinner and some beers, we went to sleep. At 0400 we all jumped.... The freaking loudspeakers at all four mosques began their call to prayer at full blast. Fuck.... We spent the remainder of the day trying to rest and every time we would fall asleep, again... The call for prayers, full blast! Over lunch, we all looked at each other and knew this had to stop. We came up with a plan. I know it wasn't nice, but at that point we couldn't care less about political correctness. Here's what we did. After some recon that night, we noticed that the call to prayer wasn't performed by an Imam or some other person with a microphone. It was a tape recorder that used a tape. We figured the four of us, experts in stealthy infils, could sneak in and steal those tapes. However, while we were planning the different infil routes for each village, we all smiled and did something better. We recorded Metallica's 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' on repeat on all four tapes and then waited till midnight. At midnight, each one of us - armed with a Metallica tape - headed to a different village. All dressed in black, we were careful not to be seen. We entered into the buildings and exchanged the tapes. We rallied back to the exfil point, a crossroad not far from the last village and headed back to our apartment. And then we waited... At 0350 we went to the roof with some coffee, opened some field chairs and waited for the show to begin. At 0400 sharp the first "call" came alive, full volume: Make his fight On the hill in the early day Constant chill deep inside ... Take a look To the sky Just before you die It's the last time he will Followed by the next, then the 3rd and 4th joined in. Full volume Metallica! Soon after, we heard sirens headed to the villages. I don't know what happened after that, but we had our own private concert, right there. No kidding, there I was... Metallica call to prayer

      No Kidding There I Was... Metallica Call to Prayer

      May 18, 2013
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    • In the IDF, 'Lonely Soldier' is a term that describes soldiers serving on active duty who have no family is Israel. These are volunteers that came to serve for 3-5 years. They typically go back to their respective countries upon completion. Most commonly, these are people who immigrated to Israel by themselves. I was one of them. While in Israel, I lived in an apartment building where the majority of people were lonely soldiers. It was located on the outer ring of Jerusalem, surrounded by four Arab villages. My roommates were two recon guys (like me) and one who worked in field intel. All of the other inhabitants were soldiers from various units, with most of them serving a combat role. It was a well known thing, especially to the Arabs in the village. Most of the time we wouldn't be there, but when we were on leave, we would come to the apartment for a little R&R. It was rare that the four of us were there at the same time, but once in a blue moon, it did happen. Each village had, as is customary, its own mosque. When the time for prayer came, the loudspeakers would call out to the faithful. It was OK, we were used to it. However, over the weekend they would make it a point to play the call to prayer very, and I mean VERY, loud. They knew soldiers would be in the building trying to get some sleep - recovering from several weeks in the field. This always annoyed me but there was nothing I could do. On this particular weekend, after an intense seven weeks of non-stop ops, all I wanted was to go to the apartment, sleep, eat, sleep some more and then sleep again. That weekend the four of us were at the apartment and we were all equally tired. We arrived Thursday night and after a small dinner and some beers, we went to sleep. At 0400 we all jumped.... The freaking loudspeakers at all four mosques began their call to prayer at full blast. Fuck.... We spent the remainder of the day trying to rest and every time we would fall asleep, again... The call for prayers, full blast! Over lunch, we all looked at each other and knew this had to stop. We came up with a plan. I know it wasn't nice, but at that point we couldn't care less about political correctness. Here's what we did. After some recon that night, we noticed that the call to prayer wasn't performed by an Imam or some other person with a microphone. It was a tape recorder that used a tape. We figured the four of us, experts in stealthy infils, could sneak in and steal those tapes. However, while we were planning the different infil routes for each village, we all smiled and did something better. We recorded Metallica's 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' on repeat on all four tapes and then waited till midnight. At midnight, each one of us - armed with a Metallica tape - headed to a different village. All dressed in black, we were careful not to be seen. We entered into the buildings and exchanged the tapes. We rallied back to the exfil point, a crossroad not far from the last village and headed back to our apartment. And then we waited... At 0350 we went to the roof with some coffee, opened some field chairs and waited for the show to begin. At 0400 sharp the first "call" came alive, full volume: Make his fight On the hill in the early day Constant chill deep inside ... Take a look To the sky Just before you die It's the last time he will Followed by the next, then the 3rd and 4th joined in. Full volume Metallica! Soon after, we heard sirens headed to the villages. I don't know what happened after that, but we had our own private concert, right there. No kidding, there I was... Metallica call to prayer

      No Kidding There I Was… Metallica Call to Prayer

      May 18, 2013, 31 Comments
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