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Home » Special Operations » Don’t Kill Yourself Briefs: The Army’s Cynical Approach to Skyrocketing Suicide Rates

Don’t Kill Yourself Briefs: The Army’s Cynical Approach to Skyrocketing Suicide Rates

by Jack Murphy · August 5, 2012 · Posted In: Special Operations
US Marine Sergeant Anthony Zabala of 1st
The Army is big on mandatory briefings. Generals want briefings of everything under the sun, demanding more information than he and his entire staff can even process. Some briefs are somewhat useful for new soldiers such as annual briefings on the Geneva Convention and Laws of Land Warfare. Others such as the Equal Opportunity brief are worthy of an eye roll but relatively painless.

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With the Army developing AKO and pushing it out Army wide on the internet in the early 2000′s, these briefings have not been replaced with, but rather supplemented with, dozens of redundant safety certification forms and surveys.

There is the information awareness certification, the motor vehicle safety certification, various safety surveys, anti-terrorism awareness certification, sexual harassment certificates, and many others.  I was even recently told about an online SERE re-qualification course in which students roam around a virtual forest looking for sticks to rub together in order to start a virtual fire with computer pixels.  The internet is a great tool but also allows busybody staff officers up and down the entire Army chain of command to reach all the way through the command structure and burden soldiers with their “great” ideas.

Army Wrong.

It gets even more ridicules when you realize that it is all about making quotas. Each unit has to get a certain percentage of their soldiers “qualified” through this type of online training. Each survey is considered to be critical mandatory training until you get to 70% of the company through it, then you won’t hear about it again for a couple months when it becomes time to re-qualify.

Even the best Sergeant Majors run around the company harassing their boys to get them to complete the surveys. Whether they are great leaders or not, the metric used to judge whether Senior NCO’s have been successful is not how combat effective their unit is, but whether or not they met their quotas on spread sheets and internet safety surveys. No one cares how many High Value Targets you captured and killed if MEDPROS is out of date.

Combined with Risk Mitigation worksheets and other risk adverse safety measures, these briefings and online workshops represent the Army’s pathetic attempt to replace real leadership with a bureaucratic Cover Your Ass technique that ensures that Officers don’t lose their jobs even as their units fall apart under the weight of suicides, drug abuse, vehicle accidents, and even losses in combat.

If something goes wrong, if a soldier kills himself for instance, his commanding officer can simply throw his hands in the air and say, “well, he was qualified and completed the mandatory safety training” thereby absolving the unit leadership from responsibility.  Some units go as far as to have an Orwellian sounding regularly scheduled safety stand down to hash out all these briefs and online courses.

It you would like to get started on your online safety courses just download this 6.2MB MBA-style PowerPoint and see what I’m talking about.  If you were not suicidal prior to starting this online training, you sure will be by the time you finish.  Combine that with the silly AFN public service announcement commercials about suicide and it will be enough to push any sane man right over the edge.

This is especially true in regards to the Army’s callously cynical approach to combating the shockingly high suicide rates that they are facing. Instead of strong leaders, today we have multiple choice, check-the-block training. In the past a First Sergeant or Platoon Sergeant would have to address a troop who they felt was in some trouble. Maybe buy him a beer and offer to hear him out. Today we throw some safety surveys at the troop and give him a mandatory suicide brief.

The Army Safety Center appears to be big on statistical analysis. It would be interesting to see some objective statistical analysis showing that “don’t kill yourself” briefs are actually helping to lower suicide rates. But of course, those briefs have never been about saving soldier’s lives but rather about saving careers.

Since the number of soldiers committing suicide has spiked over the last decade, one would think that this is an indicator that what they are doing isn’t working and it is a time for a change. I’m not talking about swapping out power point slides, I’m talking about a full blown shift in Army culture.

From suicides to scandals like Abu Ghraib, these were ultimately failures of the the Sergeants who failed to supervise their soldiers and failed to coach, teach, and mentor them properly.  Everyone likes to think of Officers as leaders, but the reality is that they are just summer help who will move on before getting to know their Soldiers very well.

Sergeants are leaders, Officers are more like administrative managers and most are more interested in checking off OER bullets than taking responsibility for unit morale.  It is the first line supervisors who need to step up and address troubled Soldiers on a man to man basis and talk them them like they are human beings.  No bullshit online suicide prevention course or hilarious AFN television spot played ad infinitum in the chow hall is going to prevent suicide.

We need real Sergeants and real leaders, not a plastic dog tag with the Army Values written on them.

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JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

I wanted to put this out there. I am hoping our Team can help these soldiers. They say 250,000 troops are afflicted with this brain disease, our numbers say higher. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/degenerative-brain-disease-afghan-war-vets_n_1783293.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003&ir=Politics

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @JuliaHugoRachel1  Thanks for sharing but I think you misread the article.  It says 250k are TBI casualties not Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy victims. 

 

It goes on to say, "We don't fully understand the incidence of CTE with the occurrence of traumatic brain injury," said Air Force Lt. Col. Randall McCafferty, chief of neurosurgery at the San Antonio Military Medical Center.

 

Let's not blow a problem that may not be widespread out of proportion?  There's a lot of study to be done.

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod It was my understanding that the article said  "Almost a quarter million American troops diagnosed with traumatic brain injury are at risk of developing a degenerative disease that causes bursts of anger and depression and can lead to memory loss, difficulty walking and speaking, paranoia and suicide, according to military researchers."

 

This team found elevations in the Tau protein of these patients. This protein is linked to spikes caused by a virus our group is working on diagnosing and treating. We are happy to incorporate their findings into our studies next year. I am all for new ideas, exploring links, etc.

 

This is off the charts widespread. The Army estimates 1 trillion $$$ to clean up the issue of GWI,PTSD,TBI's and the brain diseases linked to these that are causing suicide. Our numbers say 12+ million folks are afflicted. The CDC says the same. Its not actually CTE, it will be renamed within a year. Next year, we will have more accurate numbers when we crunch the numbers through super computers. This is a serious issue.

 

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @LauraWalkerKC

 Hardly Laura but you are very welcome.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @JuliaHugoRachel1

 yes

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod My figures include diagnosed, undiagnosed and not just the U.S. Military.

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod That is a GOOD point with serial killers. But if we look at their brains in autopsies, we do not see a brain disease such as an autopsy that shows CTE post mortum. In serial killers, we do not see the white/bright spots on high resolution MRI's as well, that we see in patients with the diseases I mentioned and TBI's.

When you talk about vets being portrayed as a dangerous group, do you mean beacuse of the increased PTSD and TBI numbers? Or the higher incidence of violent crimes (as seen in the increased prison numbers).? Thank You.

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod I respect your point completely. I am as disgusted as you about protrayal of Vets and any sheisters that arrive with "new" treatments. I've done my part in weeding out those sheisters in the disease fields I mentioned.

 

I feel qualified enough to speak on this subject and am always willimg to learn more. I feel qulified enough with my background in Science and Politics to take this issue to The Hill through the 501C3 and 501C4 I founded to take direct political action to get more funding to the researchers and more treatment centers to the military and civilians for these diseases.

 

 

 

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts

 @majrod Thank you, you're an angel!

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel1   "This progressive degeneration points to biological instigators, not  psychological."  What are your qualifications to make that evaluation?  MANY psychological situations worsen over time (e.g. it's how we get some seriel killers)

 

"I stand by my figures"  You don't have figures.  You have unsupported guesses.

 

"I don't think there is a "wrong or right" when it comes to this issue."  Sorry, wild speculating is wrong.

 

You may not be one of them but there are people with an agenda that desire to make vets a dangerous group.  There are also people looking to profit from the nation's concern with "new" treatments or explanations.  You've made some wild allegations of pathogens, number of cases etc.  Let the data come in?

 

If you want to help vets stop sensationalizing. 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LauraWalkerKC  

 Laura - checked it out and sent a note.  He's getting a lot of good advice and leads. 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod on my statement above...I should have said CTE is only CONFIRMED post mortum. It is being diagnosed, thus the debate.

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod I will not argue this point with you. But I will say, I stand by my figures an I invite you to re-visit this discussion in 1-3 years with me? You bring up a valid point. I AM disputing the statistics stated in the Military reports. Most Definitely. But, I would never do so without valid, supported FOIAS to back up what I say. So, I do believe my reputation is not at stake. I do not write, say or take these figures likely.

 

I can very well see your point. Reports do contradict what I am saying. I think in this instance, time will tell.

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrodPhrase was the wrong term. You are right. CTE is more than a "phrase" and I am so sorry I used this word as I did, without explanation. CTE is  horrific and for all those that have lost loved ones due to this, I am deeply saddened. I did not speak my point well enough.

 

CTE is classified as a DSM, psychiatric disorder. There is a debate in the biological realm (ICD-): i.e.: if this CTE term should be applied to patients as CTE is only actually diagnosed post mortem.

 

An argument against diagnosing patients with CTE, and the reason I said that this term may not be valid for patients in the future, is that these patients show nuerological decline, suicidal thoughts and have visible brain damage as shown on MRI's and the damge seems to progress. This progressive degeneration points to biological instigators, not psychological.

 

CTE is labeled as a DSM/Psychiatric disorders. Psychiatric/Psychological disorders do not cause damage to the brain. Research conducted on Brain damage in the fields of ALS,MS,CFIDS,GWI and TBI's suggest the brain damage is caused by a biological disease. CTE was found in 1928 and was used to desbribe the brain of a (boxer?) athlete who had sustained repeated trauma/blows to the head and it was postulated that the damage got worse (by his noted cognitive and motor skills decline) over a period of time, leading to his death.

 

As far as I know, the first CTE case of a soldier was diagnosed on the Marine who committed suicide a few years ago. I remember getting the call. This, in part,  is what led this research team in this article I posted to start looking for this occurrence in our military with TBI's and MTBI's.

 

I don't think there is a "wrong or right" when it comes to this issue. I think it is going to take more research and the collaboration of many researchers and doctors to deal with this issue.

 

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @JuliaHugoRachel1 Hey folks, while you are on the topic of TBIs and the aftermath, a good guy who runs the mil blog Free Range International just posted this morning about his own battle with it.  He is really hurting and reaching out.  Would you take a moment to look at his post and if you have resources you can direct to him, it would be much appreciated.  He's in Texas:

 

http://freerangeinternational.com/blog/?p=5010

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel1BTW, Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy isn't "just a phrase" it's actually included in the Psychiatric Disorders. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM IV) published by the American Psychiatric Association.

http://www.brown.edu/Courses/BI_278/Other/Teaching%20examples/Brain%20and%20Behavior/articles/dementia.pdf  p23

 

The Boston University School of Medicine has a research center...

http://www.bu.edu/cste/about/what-is-cte/

 

A bit much for "just a phrase"?

 

Don't know your angle but maybe it's time for the research to prove one of us wrong?

 

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel1 Your sensationalizing.  According to the CBO's U.S. Military Casualty Statistics: Operation New Dawn, Operation Iraqi Freedom, and Operation Enduring Freedom September 28, 2010 we have 178,876 TBI cases http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22452.pdf  p3  250k is on target for the two years not accounted for in the report.

 

Now you want to claim theres a MILIION out there?  Not buying it and NO this article is NOT saying 250k of those million.  NOWHERE in the article does it refer to this MILLION you are talking about.  When you make stuff up you really hurt your credibility.

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrodPS...So, I think we are at 1 million possible (diagnosed and undiagnosed combined) TBI's + MTBI's right now.  What this article is saying is that in about 250,000 of those cases, a potential risk is pesent for brain disease. We know Trauma to the Brain can potentially cause viral reactivation of normal  viruses that are latent in the human body, what we don't know is why and in whom (subsets).

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrodThat was a direct quote from the article as stated by the Army Research Team.  250,000 troops are "at risk"  as quoted in article:

"Almost a quarter million American troops diagnosed with traumatic brain injury  are at risk of developing a degenerative disease that causes bursts of anger and  depression and can lead to memory loss, difficulty walking and speaking,  paranoia and suicide, according to military researchers." 

 

CTE is just a "phrase" this particular research team is using right now. It is not officially a disease and is not listed nor confirmed by AMA/CDC/NIH and there is no ICD code, etc.

 

I can't say how many papers have been published to date. I've personally reviewed over 2,000 published papers. I know over 4,000 exist, with ongoing research happening in regards to this particular subject. These papers are what I base my opinion on. Scientific evidenced based fact, proven and published.

 

The exciting thing about this study is that it links the Tau protein with these patients brain disease. Tau protein dysfuntion/fluxuation can be linked to viruses such as HHV-6, EBV and certain pathogens that are seen in Gulf War illness, PTSD, Autism, MS, ALS and CFS. This brings us one step closer to researchers who have done studies (see #'s above) on TBI/PTSD/GWI having connections with viruses and pathogens. We are not saying viruses are the sole issue. We are saying, lets test for the viruses, if they are present; treat them in order to help the patient in the recovery process. We also want to see genetic testing as well for PON1, as this could play into the mix for these patients. The Army spent 100 million dollars on the PON1 studies, we want to see it implemented. The Tau find is interesting.

 

majrod
majrod 5pts

@JuliaHugoRachel1  You said, "250,000 troops are afflicted with this brain disease".  Disease being CTE.  There are not 250k cases of CTE.  There are 250K cases of TBI.  There is little to no evidence to determine the incidence of CTE in TBI cases.  You're assuming a 100% correlation.  From the article...  "We don't fully understand the incidence of CTE with the occurrence of traumatic  brain injury," said Air Force Lt. Col. Randall McCafferty, chief of neurosurgery  at the San Antonio Military Medical Center.  

 

CTE is going to be renamed?  Ok, why?  By whom?  What is this new "virus" you are talking about?  Are you referring to CTE?

 

The LAST thing vets need are folks EQUATING with ZERO medical studies PTSD/TBI with "a degenerative disease that causes bursts of anger and depression and can lead to  memory loss, difficulty walking and speaking, paranoia and suicide".   There are people out there that would LOVE to portray vets as walking time bombs.  Yes, let's be helpful and concerned but there's no need to make more of a serious situation for any reason.

 

You're either grossly misreading or sensationalizing.

 

 

 

Connor31
Connor31 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzSGpDGk2Xg&feature=g-all-u

Frosty
Frosty 5pts

I'm going to say this once and only once: Run for office!! One of you guys needs to take one for the team and bring some common sense to the world. Force this change we desperately need. Please don't make me beg.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @FrostyLOL if I know anything I know no one here can run for office.  Skeletons/closets.... etc ;)

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @FrostyIt's a really strange crew:  Brandon is fuzzy, Jack is almost as bad as I am, PH2 you have to keep an eye on and keep him away from the Rainier, Laura is a vixen, Recon 6 I haven't figured out yet but I know I want him on my 6... and I've forgotten many others but at the end of the day if the shootin starts?  Good bunch :)

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9Your humor enlivens this board immensely! Like the horse profile pic. My profile pic, I am sitting on a horse, but you cannot see him or the vaqueros.

 

RyanGraham1
RyanGraham1 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I'm late to this discussion because I was "in the field" this week. Anyway, as a suicide researcher/Ph.D.- level psychotherapist, who is now on active duty in the Army's clinical psychologist pipeline, I think I'm probably the closest thing around here to a subject matter expert. As such, I have a couple things to share that are highly relevant. (Note: These opinions are my own, and do not reflect any official position of the United States Army).

 

1. Jack is right about the briefs being worthless. They are bureaucratic CYA exercises in the extreme. There are other ways that a brief could be much more useful. For instance, making all Army leaders (NCOs in particular) QPR qualified ( http://www.qprinstitute.com/ ) would be a quick and painless way to actually enhance leaders' ability to spot suicide risk, and act appropriately.

 

2. On the other hand, and Jack didn’t cover this angle, there are more legitimate initiatives (compared to the suicide briefs) currently at work in the Army. The Comprehensive Soldier Fitness (CSF: http://csf.army.mil/whatiscsf.html ) is a major effort to train NCOs on how to build mental resilience, and help their Soldiers to do the same. It's not bullshit. Academic eggheads debate some legitimate issues with the specifics of the program. Nonetheless, it's an aggressive program for improving overall Soldier mental health. It's not a suicide prevention program per se, but its principles apply directly to the circumstances that typically lead to Soldier suicide.

 

3. Jack is also right that strong NCOs will always be the backbone of effective suicide prevention. Unfortunately, NCO efforts to "cull weakness from the ranks" are all too frequently a contributing factor in Soldier suicide. It is not the case that Army suicides are overwhelmingly related to PTSD, and/or multiple deployments. A lot of the suicides now occurring in the Army are people who never deployed, and are having a hard time fitting in.  Some of this is due to the lax recruiting standards of the past decade. And some of it is due to a warrior culture that is fairly rigid, and quick to ostracize those that don’t fit the conventional mold of a good soldier. It takes intelligent and proactive NCOs to see every Soldier’s worth, humanely chaperone out those who cannot contribute, and find ways to make a place for soldiers who legitimately have something to offer, but need more help in finding their way in the Army.  It’s a tough gig that requires a lot of flexibility and adaptive thinking.  But isn’t that the hallmark of any good NCO?  Bottom line is that supporting and training NCOs will always be the #1 way to improve any issue in Soldier readiness.

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @RyanGraham1 Captain, Thank you for your work and your words and insight are invaluable on this discussion. Every Long-time PTSD military Psychologist I've spoken with has told me that they "feel in their gut that not only is something going on psychologically with their patients, but also that there seems to be a biological issue happening"  that MD doctors are not pinpointing. The research I posted above in the article is trying to address this concern. I hope and pray incoming psychologists/psychiatrists recognize this factor before having to wait decades as the old timers did.

 

Ashter
Ashter 5pts

Thanks Jack for the article.  As a mustang, retired AF vet I have seen both sides of the NCO and officer world on how they train to lead.  Hands down NCOs get far better training with handling personnel issues such as Suicide awareness than officers.  Officer leadership training mostly covers leadership training from the perspective of getting the mission done - and not so much about taking care of your troops.  Heck, as an Airman Leadership School instructor, we taught E-4's who were soon to be E-5s about suicide awareness and how to take care of their troops.  This lesson content was never discussed in any of the officer PME course work that I was exposed to.  So, I'm not so sure that it's the officer's fault that they are poorly equipped to handle suicidal situations, they just weren't prepared adequately for it.  Though you would think that a leader's desire to take care of the folks under his or her command would be a top priority, I think some may feel that's the role of the NCOs and its not his or place to interfere.

 

One other thing that I used to emphasize everytime I taught the Suicide Awareness class was to not be afraid to ask that individual if they want to kill themselves.  It is a very important question that needs to be asked.  The question does not implant the idea of suicide - trust me that person will either flat out deny it, or they will admit it.  Once they start talking, you can take appropriate action from there.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @Ashter

Ashter - You are talking from an Air Force experiental background.  Army officers are given blocks of training on suicide prevention even before they are commissioned (along with a MYRIAD of other courses addresing different stressors e.g. sexual harrassment, rape, alcoholism, domestic abuse etc. etc.) and then again in their basic courses.  I remember because I was required to teach them.  So no, the Army officers aren't just getting mission focused training, much is actually individual soldier focused.

 

It's very dangerous when vets make statements about training or capabilities outside of their personal experiences.  Readers consider you a credible source. 

Ashter
Ashter 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod You are correct, I was only providing my AF experience and I thought I was very clear to state "my personal experience".   I'm not sure what your last statement was referring to.

 

Suicides do not only happen to Army personnel.  It's a big issue for all branches of the service and I was sharing my thoughts on it from my perspective as it relates to this article.   

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @Ashter And it ain't like that today.  Couple months ago a good friend of mine who is the senior NCO for the reserve BMT squadron (8050th) called me and tried to convince me to come back.

 

No thanks.  I'd be in jail in about an hour.  The shit doesn't work today like it did when we were cowboys.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts

 @majrod  @AshterBack in the day, majrod, it did.  Even us NCOs just expected people to suck it up, get the mission done, and stfu.  Everyone had a dad or mom die.  Everyone had to go on a deployment.  Everyone had their wife cheat on them. 

 

The best thing we all did was keep the people that couldn't handle it out of the fight.  When I pushed troops, my brother across the hall, SMSgt Dave Medoza and I used to compete over who sent the most trainees to the robe & slippers ward at Wilford Hall.

 

It might sound harsh but if they couldn't get past me I was not going to send them off to SSgt Joe Schmoe on the flightline repairing A-10s.  I'm sure a bunch of you guys spent time under a campaign hat so I know you know what I mean.  Great deal of effort went into making sure the weak ones didn't get through.

 

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @Ashter

 Thanks for clearing that up.  Some folks may have taken your comment, "Officer leadership training mostly covers leadership training from the  perspective of getting the mission done - and not so much about taking care  of your troops."  and apply it across all branches.

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod Asside from these surveys, I hope to see a change where leaders are informed that Suicide Rates in the Military are not only caused by combat stress or a psychological issue. The Army already knows this. Yet, leaders are not being informed. In up to 65% of these cases there are biological reasons for the suicides. Everyone seems to be talking about Leadership Issues, I am concerned for the suicide numbers, the patients and how  we can prevent it.If surveys and leaders are being given the wrong information, what good is it doing?  I am concerned for  the families, the externalities and the fact that numbers are steadily rising (despite what figures are being released). This is being considered a medical epidemic/pandemic by researchers and scientists and it needs to be haulted, reversed and prevented. The surveys are not doing any of those 3 things. Theres a huge break in this dam. There is an elephant in the room and the Army and DoD know it. Cynical Approach? Good title. The Army has stepped up to the plate with research, then the VA cuts down the research projects. Hopefully, newer, updated scientific information will be available to everyone within 1-3 years.

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts

 @majrod Got It. Plus, This is not the time or place for me to post supporting links of published scientifc studies prooving the evidenced based facts. New corporations have been founded based on what I've said to take political action on this issue. My point, is that a soldier cannot do his job without the right equipment. A leader and buddies can't help suicide prevention without the right tools. Thats going to change in the near future.If anyone wants me to post 1-3 links to scientific studies that show a pathogen prevelant in the military has links with suicide and they feel it is appropriate, I will gladly share. These are not classified pathogens, just pathogens now shown to have cortisol receptors which affect cognitive function and can impact the brain and can be linked to suicide. Studies next year on returning troops from Iraq and Afghanistan will tell us much more. Thank You. 

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel1

 I think I mentioned before that I'm not familiar with biologic pathogens that cause suicide though physical ailments can be a contributing cause and is not new in our military history.  I'll with hold rendering an opinion on something I know nothing about epecially since I can find no medical journals, studies or reports of the phenomena (a disease causing suicide).  In the mean time troop's buddies and leaders are at the fore front of the battle.

Snipey6
Snipey6 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Mr. Murphy, I can't say I disagree with you much in the article.  The majority of our "mandatory briefs" and "online certficate" gathering we do attrites us more than the enemy does, and we're still losing Soldiers.  Nothing can replace, TRUE, leader engagement, spending time with your Soldiers.

I will make an exception with your comments about Officers.  I was taken away from my Platoon 8 months ago to work at staff and I still spend regular time talking to my former Soldiers to check on them.  My Soldiers were the most important thing to me over a stupid OER, a medal, or a coin and I bent over backwards for every single one of them.  Don't believe me, ask my Platoon Sergeant, who I had to go to bat for multiple times with my retarded, stubborn company commander and appealled to the BN CSM several times to give him the top block NCOER he deserved, but to no avail.He'll tell you I was there for him. I'm sorry to hear you've had bad Officers, we all have had those. We're not all bad guys though.  In an Army where good leaders are fewer than none, and I am by no means a stellar leader, there are still some of us who give a damn about what matters most, America's children.  That will never replace good NCO's, they are the backbone and we would be nothing without them.  But to say Officers are merely managers who don't care, is wildly off the mark of truth, at least for this one.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts

There a lot of stories below, and they matter.  As NCOs we've been there, we've seen it.  I was an NCO for 6 years, but you can only do so much.  I've lost a few and as I look back I really can't think of anything I could have done differently.  I second guess myself constantly but every time I reevalute I know I did all I could.

 

Just be the solid NCO you need to be.  Love them and hammer them as the situation calls for it.  You can only do what you can do.  Leadership sucks, it carries a burden... it is what it is.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts

When that 4th or 5th stripe is awarded to you, you have to understand that there are 500 troops looking at you like you're Jezus.  The're wide eyed, stupid, and they need you. 

 

ok this was T9's how to NCO 101

NelsonJr
NelsonJr 5pts

Damnit to fu&%ing hell.....i was just informed that a friend of mine and Oklahoma native who had recently returned from Afghanistan to find his wife decided to leave him and take his kids, committed suicide last night...he had been working with an ODA there and endured hell but couldn't get past the one at home.....ugh.....damnit to hell...

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @NelsonJr I am so terribly sorry for the senseless loss of your friend.

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @NelsonJr Words fail. Thoughts and prayers. You are among friends. Let it out.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @NelsonJr

Condolences Nelson.  Some combat vets have a reduced capacity to deal with more adversity especially just after deployment.  Knew a sharp LT who shot himself because he accidentally shot one of his troops at a party he threw (drunk, showing off new pistol, cleared incorrectly, ricochet hit someone).  MPs came, took report, left pistol.  He kept drinking and shot himself.  Letter said he felt guilty bringing everyone home and then shot one of his own.  Sad.

 

Had some close calls with adultery.  Troops new and took care of each other.  Returned early from gunnery and my company medic detachment NCO walked in on his wife.  Showed up devastated at my office.  Put him to sleep in my XOs offfice next door and posted a rotating "guard" with specific instructions and got him professional help ASAP.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @NelsonJr Sincerest apologies to you and your mutual friends of  the loss of your brother in uniform. I just hate it and hope that maybe these foundations that I keep donating to will figure out how to get help to these folks.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @NelsonJr Dammit.  Just dammit.  ever feel like the shit is coming from all directions and if you'd get 30 seconds down time you could help fill the line where it's the weakest?  But the shit just keeps coming?  I'm sorry Nelson, I really am.  fk.

 

NelsonJr
NelsonJr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Thanks all for the kind words. As details come in, they make me sadder and above all, angry. He got through the bad juju in the sandbox yet one persons actions seem to have pushed him over the edge. He leaves behind 2 young children who will not know their father but will hopefully know OF him through his many friends.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @NelsonJr Understand the anger.  It's personal, and there's no fixing it, and it's going to haunt you for the rest of your life.  I know.

 

JuliaHugoRachel1
JuliaHugoRachel1 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @NelsonJrI am sorry for your loss. I have experienced this as well. God Bless You.

 

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @NelsonJr Damn, you know the drill, standby and render support.  His kids will need to know that dad loved them.  Horrible, please keep us all apprised of the family situation, how they are faring.  Drop a line here when you need the encouragement.  Very sad

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

DOES NOT COMPUTE. Jack... what little common sense I still possess has been raped out of my brain. This is straight out of Catch 22, holy fuck.

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