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Home » AFSOC » 21st Century Shift: Air Force Promoting Ground Troops and Not Pilots.

21st Century Shift: Air Force Promoting Ground Troops and Not Pilots.

by BK · September 1, 2012 · Posted In: AFSOC, Special Operations
pj kyle
Staff Sergeant Kyle Klapperich , a pararescueman, deployed in support of Operation ENDURING FREEDOM as the primary rescue specialist and sole medic attached to a combined U.S. Navy SEAL and Afghan Commando Team. On the night of September 7, 2011, Sergeant Klapperich inserted with a combined helo-assault force into a known insurgent stronghold which was full of improvised explosive devices (IEDs). As they moved 200 meters through multiple ditches and ravines, three members of the team were struck by an IED.

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Read about the rest of what happened here.  Suffice it to say, Staff Sergeant Klapperich acted without hesitation and with tremendous heroism, and was nominated for the Silver Star.

As the Air Force is slowly starting to figure out, the age of the fighter pilot, and, as I would argue, the pilot itself, is coming to an end. Until recently, a drone operator had to already be an actual pilot, wings and all. But as the demand for drones grow, the higher ups are realizing that taking two years to train a man to fly an actual airplane is a waste of time, when what they really want is someone to sit in front of a video screen.

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gaelichunter
gaelichunter 5pts

Extraordinary story of a PJ under fire...  Amazing.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

does anyone know if once you become a PJ you can choose assignment to a special tactics squadron or combat rescue squadron or is it choosen for you

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

This man exemplifies courage and compassion.   There's little one can say in the face of that.

majrod
majrod 5pts

I have noticed a lot more Air Force recruiting commercials featuring their presence on the ground vs. flying overhead.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod AF recruiting is a job I successfully avoided.  Apologies for you folks that did a recruiter tour, regardless of service.  Worst job, ever.  If I had an 18 year-old son I'd tell him that unless he wanted to be a PJ or TACP, go Navy and then SEAL  (avoid the army at all costs!).  My background is AWACS, a few days pushing flights, and space.  AWACS was the shit.  The time in which I was an MTI was the best time to be an MTI.... these days if you say "fuck" to an airman you can expect a congressional investigation... so no on that.  Space is good but only if you can back it up with a degree.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9I likewise avoided it but had a close friend command the S. Florida recruiting company.  Great guy, as a company commander he went out and got his own candidates and recruited to both understand the process and set the example.  He also commanded the sniper school at Benning.  Like I said good guy.

 

Don't know why you'd tell anyone to avoid the Army at all costs.  I'll take it as profesional ribbing. ;)  It's a big organization and like any organization of a million people there are good and bad things anbout it as well as dead ends and awesome opportunities.  No matter, I have a couple of young guys who ask me about the service.  I don't talk bad about any service.  There are good and bad things about all of them. 

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @majrod  @Tango9 You are preaching to the choir. In our family, We've had Army Infantry going way back, then before that Militia in the mid 1600's on Plymouth. Its just changed so much. I am not sure where the boys will end up.

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel  @Tango9  There's no dishonor in being a soldier whether he hauls ammo or is just a plain dumb 11B. 

 

Props to the Spec Ops community but the story of the plain old Infantry is nothing to scoff at.  Even the straight legs... 

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @Tango9  @majrod I've told my own son the exact same thing. Unless he goes X18 or Rangers (should he make the grade). I am from a Navy and Army family.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod Your friend sounds like good people.  Send him here.  I tell all the ones that ask me to join the Marines.  I'm crazy like that.

JakeTura
JakeTura 5pts

I just cant agree with the transition from human pilot to UAV. There is only so much situational awareness a UAV driver can have sitting hundreds of miles away. I think there will always be a need for human pilots, but i am very pleased that the AF is seeing the effectiveness of having actual boots on the ground.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JakeTura It fills a gap.  We'll always need a hornet/eagle/16 driver to provide CAS.  But the savings (and I'm not talking money.... I'm talking Sun Tzu) in time, energy and space provided within the battlespace by employing drones is so far above the bar that it's just silly to not transition our forces with drones as a tip of the spear.

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @Tango9  @JakeTura I don't think any fighter pilot wants to admit this is the way of the future. I had a very good pilot tel me 5 years ago "That drones would AWAYS have to be manned by pilots". He is a Colonel at a USAF base and now sings a different tune, even at a youngish age. I know the heartache when you hit 40 for pilots and this is a heartache subject. But they will adapt and prosper.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel  @JakeTura Yeah... I have no idea what you just said.  The quote is lost on me.  My gremlins are fine.  I've got it.

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @Tango9  @JakeTura I have to say, lately I've met some really humble pilots. I hope you instill this in your students, that they walk away with this from you. I've seen the opposite, it is not flattering. I was always told "You have to be that way to fly that well". A myth.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel  @JakeTura I'm out now.  But I still teach some stuff.  I encourage my students to be smarter than me.  I WANT the 22 year old to do shit I couldn't do at 22, and if it happens under my watch, even better.  I checked my ego at the door 20 years ago.

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @Tango9  @JakeTura Thats because you are awesome. So many tell me they miss it. Many tell me they were "through" when a 22 year old aced them under their command.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JuliaHugoRachel  @JakeTura Sorry, but when I hit 40 there was no heartache.  I just doubled my flutter kicks.

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @JakeTura I'm curious if we'll make use of the Iranian, Chinese, North Korean lessons about swarming tactics.  If we can turn out hundreds of these drones and use them in massed waves they could stand against quite a number of air defense forces by virtue of shear numbers.  

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @Old PH2  @Tango9  @JakeTura I happen to really like the new robotics. Have you seen the swarms? Very small, thousands drop out of the C-130 and are now becoming autonomous (a ittle scary).

 

Jaycel Adkins
Jaycel Adkins 5pts

 @Old PH2  @Tango9  @JakeTura 

 

http://thedaemon.com/killdecisionsynopsis.html

 

Check it out, next on my reading list.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Old PH2  @JakeTura well, drones don't carry the same payloads.  If it comes to killing thousands, you need B-1s, B-52s and associated support.

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I have been carefully watching the advances in drone tech.  Starting to see testing on carriers.  When I see full on attack squadrons, or Drones beginning to fly CAP then I'll believe the change has truly begun to take place.

REAPER95
REAPER95 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I've been telling my COC this for awhile now that the days of force on force are things of the past. The enemy has seen the damage that can be caused through GW and IED's  the fight we have currently in Afghanistan and what we had in Iraq with the insurgency is the old but new true war and it is our job to keep training the  guys to be prepared for this rather than focusing on the FOF type battlefield. But everytime I say something I get shotdown like I have no clue what I am talking about. So to fix it I focus on my guys directly and hope one day the leadership sees what is really going on before the OH SH!T he was right kicks in.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@REAPER95

Force-on-force is not dead.  IEDs are not an offensive weapon.  N. KoreA isn’t going to reunify S.Korea with IEDs.  China isn’t going to expand its sphere of influence with IEDs.  Russia isn’t going to keep its neighbors in line with low intensity ops.  One does not invade a nation with IEDs.  Also to use IEDs one must allow your country to be occupied.  Even in recent low intensity ops there are numerous instances of FOF (e.g. Wanat, Kamdesh, Falujah and dozens more that don't make the front pages or aren't seen by drone operators because every squad, platoon or company has its own drone).  Don’t make the age old mistake of expecting the next war to be like the last one.  Afghanistan has very unique and difficult qualities that have caused numerous nations to not achieve their goals in the area since Alexander the Great.

 

Drones are an incredible weapons that have yet to reach their full capability but we’ve seen the same phenomena from new weapon advocates believing a new weapon has made the old forms of war obsolete.  We saw the proponents of the machinegun/quickfiring artillery believe the maginot line was impregnable.  Strategic bombing never achieved the successes that Douhet and his disciples thought.  The tank did not end trench warfare and the anti tank missioe didn’t make the tank obsolete.  The atomic bomb did not make war obsolete.   The drone and IED will not end force on force engagements. 

 

We have been operating against relatively weak opponents in very permissive air environments.  Not a very varied experience to base long term defense strategies.   Drones have their weaknesses as our stealth drone sitting in Iran proves.  Drones carry bombs but they don't provide long term supression like artillery or automatic weapons provide.  Most important is that drones can't sieze nor hold terrain though they can make life unpleasant as long as their munitions and endurance last.  Even if we could darken our enemy's skies with drones one must realize the enemy gets a vote and will find a way to eliminate our advantage.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @REAPER95 Well, the fantasy world in which our armed forces adapt overnight doesn't exist.  Acquisitions, materials, training.... that shit takes time.  It is what it is.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod all silliness aside I think we both arrive on the same side of the wickets.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @Tango9   Nope, I screwed up the addresses again (duh).  I was trying to understand your point in context and how it supported your contention that "front lines are a thing of the past". 

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts

 @majrod  @REAPER95 Guessin that was aimed at reaper, not me.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @Tango9  @REAPER95  True.  Don't understand how you say "force on force is dead" from that but I agree with your statement.  It's been true, (acquisition, tng, materials etc.) since the first guy picked up a rock and threw it.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@REAPER95

Front lines are a thing of the past.  Not only does our current enemy (afg) get this, but we all understand the russians and chinese are noting the successes of the under-equipped, under-educated cannon fodder has managed to have against a massively technologically superior (and that gap is narrowing as I type this) and highly trained force.

 

The BGM needs to take note, and unfuck itself to become flexible on a 72 hour basis.... this requires myriad changes in doctrine and leadership.  It's a big fucking boat (the pentagon) and turning it around needs to happen quickly.  Like fucking yesterday.

 

formwiz
formwiz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Have to agree with the article. 20 or 30 years from now, the Air Force as we think of it won''t exist. Drones will be the face of aviation in all the armed services.

 

And the practice of using non-pilot enlisted men as drone operators has been the Army's from the start

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @formwiz and in another sentence, look how much MORE the USAF has become. They have immense sky control.

 

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

There may be more ground crew and support positions, but the future still looks bright for live aircrew.  The technology gap is narrowing but until we get full SA from a remote vehicle I can't see any of the services completely standing down their flight school programs.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Old PH2 Not to mention the fact that we can't allow Blackhawk pilots and crew to phone it in when the war fighters need to be exfiled. Imagine being a grunt who has to board a helo in a hot LZ but the pilot has no SA because he's a few thousand miles away behind a PC screen. The sense of urgency will be different for both parties I'm sure. However, I will say that with other fixed wing missions the likelihood of pilots being the vanguard is slim. Sad but that is one of the possible evolutionary paths for the USAF.

Conventional Forces
Conventional Forces 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Have to disagree here.  This is an indication that the Air Force hasn't made the swing toward the Pacific from the Afghanistan War.  Once they make that turn then you will see the pilot get highlighted again, which is a good thing for the Air Force.  We should want our forces focusing on  core competencies instead of concentrating all attention on less than 1% of their force.  SOCOM is important.  But it should not be confused with being the main effort against any forces except irregulars (this includes terrorists).  Everyone forgets the one serious weakness that Special Operations forces have...they are extremely uneffective about conventional forces.  Against terrorist, irregulars, crimminals they will win the day each and every time.  Put them against a conventional force and the outcome becomes quite sketchy.  Thats what they will face many times in the Pacific.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @Conventional Forces SF/SoF of any branch have never traditionally been meant to go head-to-head with battalions of conventional forces.  They are a force multiplier. I don't think BK was implying that they should be employed in that fashion.  I'm pretty sure no one here forgets the role they play.

 

We live in a world of asymmetric warfare.  For now, at least, the days of employing multiple divisions against multiple divisions over hundreds of miles of battlespace are not the realty.  The entire world knows that the US conventional forces, if employed in that manner, would crush anything in opposition.  So, not being stupid, they choose to change the game.  You're not going to see armored divisions facing armored divisions and air wings competing for air superiority any time soon.

 

CAS, airlift, and special ops are now the primary roles for AF pilots.  Unmanned aircraft are cheaper and don't cost lives if lost.

 

There is still a need to keep a competent air-to-air force if for nothing else than to keep from having to fight air-to-air, but I agree with BK:  there needs to be a shift in leadership (promotions to flag officer) that reflects TODAY, not yesterday.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @Tango9  @Conventional Forces Yet another parallel to Rome. When the Germanic, Frankish and Slavic tribes could not beat the TTP's and well-resourced legions they moved light and fast so that the largess of the mighty Roman Legion would be its biggest weakness. A lesson that seems to repeat itself time and time again...

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts

 @majrod  @HugeFan There is talk/very "loose" chatter, nothing cohesive, about China striking at India.

 

JuliaHugoRachel
JuliaHugoRachel 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @majrod  @HugeFan  @Conventional Forces

 I agree Tango9. Those days are over for us.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod  @HugeFan  @Conventional Forces "Don't think the Chechens would agree with you.  When it becomes an issue of nation's existence it can easily get dirty.  We have an extremely high threshold for the use of force not so for every nation.  Should we ever be seriously threatened we'll fight as completely and dirty as the next guy."

 

we definitely are capable of it, but under our current leadership, No.  Not just "no" but "fuck no"

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @HugeFan ok.  Let me rephrase for clarity:  "The USA AF bombers days of leveling an entire nation, civilians be damned, is over."  I mistakenly assumed you'd have understood the context.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @HugeFan  My Chechen comment was directed at tango.  Still a newbie with frye. My bad.

 

But since we are chatting there are other areas of the world where a mech type conflict may be possible.  Seems like we have a division's worth of equipment in Kuwait and I know of at least one of i believe two heavy combat brigades there right now on a nine month tours. 

 

As we know from our experience in desert storm a region can become unstable based on another nation's actions.  Though the cold war is dead it is possible for Russia or China to take actions where our national security would dictate we mobilize significant conventional forces.

 

Then there is Murphy who is alive and well and has relatives in Venezuela, Equador, Bolivia, Cuba and all the non state actors that stir the pot.  Just food for thought and expanding horizons :) 

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @Tango9  @Conventional Forces I brought the Chechens in because of their abilities as war fighters, no doubt our's would do whatever is necessary to bring them down. What I do know is that through "family" these cats can get a hold of very good hardware and have access to ex-Russian military dudes. I believe it is this that puts them above other "booger eaters"  as far as fighting them is concerned. We can't attack Chechnaya (it lies within territorial Russia) so fighting them means we will never be able to attack them at home... unless Uncle Vlad gets a change of heart and I'm sure he'll sacrifice 1,000's of Russians before he allows our "expertise" into the region. Even if he said "Okay" that is not the place for MY SOF as they will nev er really know who the enemy is... My "know-nothing" two cents anyway.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @HugeFan  @Conventional Forces Don't think the Chechens would agree with you.  When it becomes an issue of nation's existence it can easily get dirty.  We have an extremely high threshold for the use of force not so for every nation.  Should we ever be seriously threatened we'll fight as completely and dirty as the next guy.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @Conventional Forces The good old days of leveling an entire nation, civilians be damned, are over.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @Tango9  @Conventional Forces

 So very true. Korea being the only AO where Mech guys would square off with other Mech units, its the only place where the assets are at the front poised to roll.

One point- Aircraft have all ready exceeded the water bags ability to handle G-Loads. Unmanned will be the future. But we cant fight yesterdays war, we have a bad habit of doing that.

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  • SOFREP Radio

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