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Home » AFSOC » Changes to the Q-Course Part III

Changes to the Q-Course Part III

by Jack Murphy · October 7, 2012 · Posted In: AFSOC, SOF News, Special Operations, USASOC
HALObadass
I first wrote about the status of HALO (or MFF) being integrated into the Special Forces Qualification Course in Part II of this series.  Now it looks like we are that much closer.  The big issue was securing the sheer number of aircraft that would be required for training every single Q-Course student in MFF techniques.  And to think, before 9/11 there were people who didn’t think that HALO was a viable infiltration method…  -Jack

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FORT BRAGG, N.C. (Oct. 4, 2012) — In today’s global environment, areas of conflict are becoming increasingly difficult for military forces to access. Through advances in technology, tactics and training, potential adversaries are prepared to prevent unwanted forces’ physical presence, and the U.S. military must adapt to face these challenges.

A collective military free-fall, or MFF, capability throughout the Army’s Special Forces regiment will ensure the U.S. Army’s unconventional warfare force can effectively enter and perform within the operational areas of today and tomorrow.

Traditional forced-entry techniques such as low-altitude, static-line airborne operations have lost viability as a clandestine entry technique, especially in special-operations missions where silence and accuracy are crucial to mission success. Discreet, low-visibility free-fall infiltration complements the mission and structure of a Special Forces operational detachment-alpha, or ODA.

As a 12-man unit armed with the cultural and tactical expertise to work alongside a partner force, one ODA is small enough to maintain its MFF qualification, and use the capability to enter a remote area where a larger, conventional Army presence would not be feasible, necessary or cost-effective.

As written in the Department of Defense’s Joint Operational Access Concept dated Jan. 17, 2012, “Operational access does not exist for its own sake, but rather serves our broader strategic goals. Joint forces must be able to project military force into any operational area … This is not a new challenge, but it is one that U.S. joint forces have not been called upon to face in recent decades. That condition is likely change, and may prove to be of critical importance in the coming years.”

To meet this challenge, the Special Forces Regiment has re-evaluated its training methodology to ensure its Soldiers have an expansive skill set to meet the demands of our current and future operational environment. This reevaluation has established that while Army Special Forces units do include select MFF-capable ODAs, the force lacks a formal, wide-spread clandestine infiltration capability; such that would be available through regiment-wide military free-fall qualification.

To improve the U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne) units’ proficiency in MFF, the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School is prepared to incorporate military free-fall training into the Special Forces Qualification Course, or SFQC. This initiative will increase the regiment’s collective forced-entry and global response capabilities.

This initiative will institutionalize MFF operations by investing in the Military Free-Fall School at Yuma Proving Ground in Yuma, Ariz., which is the U.S. Special Operations Command’s proponent for military free fall.

The school is restructuring the Military Free Fall Parachutist Course, or MFFPC, so that it will offer sufficient annual training slots for all SFQC candidates while maintaining allocated slots for qualified Special Forces personnel already assigned to operational units. Beginning in February 2013, the MFFPC will transition from a four-week to a three-week course.

The first week will remain the same, consisting of vertical wind tunnel body stabilization training, MC-4 parachute packing and an introduction to MFF operations. The remaining two weeks will encompass a jump profile of three airborne operations per training iteration, totaling 30 MFF operations per course encompassing various conditions and equipment loads.

In fiscal year 2013, SWCS plans to host up to 358 Special Forces Soldiers through the MFFPC. By fiscal year 2015, with the addition of 18 MFF instructors and dedicated aircraft, the MFFPC will reach its optimal throughput of 1,026 MFF parachutists, including 766 Special Forces Soldiers. When fully manned and equipped, the Military Free Fall School will conduct 19 MFFPC classes each fiscal year with 54 students in each class.

Read the rest at Army.mil

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    Military Free Fall Advanced Tactical Infiltration Course

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bugkill
bugkill 5pts

Makes sense to have MFF training in the pipeline for SF soldiers and I'm surprised it took this long. Also, I noticed a couple of points being made about "Tier 1" units. My personal opinion is that SOF in general needs to run away from all the labels like SMU, Tier 1, Black ops, etc. Special Operations is the only phrase that should be discussed about any of the units belonging to USASOC, MARSOC, and NAVSOC..

 

Special Forces (I served in a SF BN for nearly 3 years as a support soldier) definitely needs to be treated as a highly secretive unit. The mission that Group does is very unique and can be very politically sensitive. We are talking about a unit with the ability to train indigenous forces to fight wars in foreign lands and a number of other unconventional warfare capabilities. CAG and DEVGRU have an entirely different mission, but can be flexible; however, their focus should be strictly behind the scenes doing the extremely dirty work.

 

The mere fact that we know that these units exist is a problem. There is way too much info out on the internet or in paperback books by former members. When I was growing up, I thought that guys doing secret missions were just SF and barely knew anything about them, except how badass they were. Today, you know darn near everything and that is the problem. It is a problem when real Seals are in movies. It is a problem when people know the name Delta and have an idea about what they do. It is a even bigger problem that we know that DEVGRU killed Bin Laden (that one is on the White House).

 

Special Operations units need to be locked in a closet. Very little information should be known about them and their activities, and the only site on the internet should be the one strictly for recruiting. All the scrabbling about missions was bound to happen in this "war" and it has always been that way. This is a low intensity conflict in reality and SOF is going to fight with themselves over specific operations, no need to even discuss it because it will never change as long as we have different branches providing different SOF units.

shakeyerboobs
shakeyerboobs 5pts

 @bugkill Wow.  Way overreacting.  Delta's been an open secret since the early 80s, and they recruit openly.  In the 1970s the Stars and Stripes Sunday Magazine (or whatever it's called) had a fairly extensive article about SEALs.  That's where I learned about them, as a civilian kid, before the internet, in the 1970's.  I'm pretty sure the North Vietnamese already knew about them at that point.

 

"Very little information should be known about them and their activities, and the only site on the internet should be the one strictly for recruiting."  Good luck with that.

 

The one good point you made is the White House, specifically the President screwed up after Operation Geronimo.  Couldn't wait to screw up for political advantage.  No surprise there.  Still, your main point falls.

bugkill
bugkill 5pts

 @shakeyerboobs  @bugkill 

 

Not overreacting. The info about SOF back in the day was entirely different than today. Today, we have much more knowledge on the workings of these units and a ton of photos and books being spread around. This is something that the community needs to deal with themselves and I think after the Bin Laden fiasco that the Seals had to deal with it and all the political crap from former members, we may start to see a change in that direction.

 

The little the public knows, the better. Right now, the public knows entirely too much.

bugkill
bugkill 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @shakeyerboobs 

 

I hear you and I understand recruiting, but the Seals are becoming more and more "Hollywood" for something that very few would ever succeed at doing. They are not going to lower standards, so what is the point in trying to recruit so heavily? I can understand flooding the services with information and there should be a way to have Soldiers and Marines be able to try out for the Seals if they have less than 1 year of service remaining in their branch or put a program in place for them to transfer (I think the Marines and Coast Guard can do this already).

 

It is a fine line though and I understand your point. However, I would like to see more of an effort from SOF, in particular the Seal community, to pipe it down a notch. I can honestly say that CAG has been pretty good with keeping quiet about itself, except for a few authors that broke the code, you rarely hear or see anything about them and I like that a lot. Seals need to take a page from their book and get back into the shadows.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @bugkill  @shakeyerboobs It's a fine line.  If you want to have a SOF component of this size you have to put some information out there for recruiting purposes if nothing else.  Even then, there is still quite a bit behind the curtain, even in the SEALs.  As I've mentioned before, there are undisclosed operations going all the way back to Vietnam.

carter1065
carter1065 5pts

I wonder in the future if there going to make all ODA's go through Combat Diver Qualification Course as well?

VermontPT
VermontPT 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

For those of you into MFF and/or who like to jump from perfectly good aircraft, you may like this link:

http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/

Dude is going to jump from a stratospheric balloon at 120,000 ft in attempt to break the speed of sound in free fall over Roswell, NM.

Earliest launch time today, set for 1130 MDT, pending no further weather delays. 

shagstar
shagstar 5pts

 @VermontPT http://us.mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=erpen9lbrq7t8  here is the follow up

Evan95
Evan95 5pts

@VermontPT beat me to it, just about to post this

bkgreenfeet
bkgreenfeet 5pts

As an alumnus of the yuma school, I approve!  Of course, we Air Force guys never had a problem getting planes to maintain proficiency... might be a different story for the army guys.

yagenrok636
yagenrok636 5pts

unrelated from MFF but... what kind of packs are they using in SFAS now? If I have to buy one to train, i might as well buy the right one

CT502
CT502 5pts

 @yagenrok636 MOLLE rucks.  They suck, but everything issues them now.  Make sure you learn to set it up correctly before training with it and make sure you use the waist belt.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @CT502  @yagenrok636 Worthless piece of kit.  The Army should be ashamed.

CT502
CT502 5pts

 @Canopylight  @CT502  @yagenrok636  @JackMurphyRGR Correction: Yeah I meant Mystery Ranch. 

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

 @CT502  @yagenrok636  @JackMurphyRGR 

You mean Mystery Ranch? Ranger Batt got those as well as they bought their own ALICE packs to issue. 

 

Yagenrok: The MOLLE pack is slightly different than the old one. It's this huge fucking ACU looking thing. I mean fucking huge.

CT502
CT502 5pts

 @yagenrok636  @JackMurphyRGR  I had the same issue with the quick release as well; had to have one of the cadre medics from the regular army show me how to set up the straps so the quick releases wouldn't pop quite so easily.  It's going to feel like that thing is really hanging on your back compared to an ALICE pack, and only remedy is a combination of really cinching down the waistband and simply getting used to it.

 

The only good news is that when you actually get to Group, SAVVY issues Mountain Ranch hiking packs in multiple sizes.  Outstanding pieces of kit and great for travel/deployment.

yagenrok636
yagenrok636 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @CT502 oh good cause i already have one. and i agree they suck. the quick release spontaneously releases quickly. yagenrok636 = 8 year 0311.

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

The idea that the MFF school needs to step up it's ability to train speaks of a recognized successful tool.  How many foreign countries have MFF HALO capability?  A handful at best, and most are our allies.  This insertion method is proven to be stealthy and one of THE hardest to defend against.  I see it being a method that will only see more and more use as Manpads and more sophisticated anti-aircraft systems become more available to the Non-state player.

Having entire ODA's MFF qualified  just makes sense, having the ability to train/ re-qualify 1000+ guys a year just makes sense. 

 

More bang for the buck, I like it.     

OPR
OPR 5pts

 @Old PH2 I think there are already ODAs that specialize in HALO/HAHO insertions, right?

CT502
CT502 5pts

 @OPR  @Old PH2 Yes, one ODA per company is designated HALO/HAHO.  Each ODA has different specialties, but these depend on Group and mission, as well as a large part on which ODAs have members that are more qualified in a myriad of different schools.

CT502
CT502 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

This is  one of the better things that could happen to the regiment lately.  There is certainly a concerted effort throughout USASOC to further professionalize the SF regiment with this, the Associate's Degree, and the so-called "Tier 1 Unconventional Warfare" capability that is still in its infancy stages.  (And for the record for everyone, everybody across SOCOM hates the 'tier 1' thing, that's a mission status for funds, not a unit classification.  ODAs and Ranger Platoons have been on Tier 1 status for certain missions)

 

Army SOF needs some love - absolutely ridiculous amounts of deployments with no love from the media is certainly draining on some of the guys.  At least we have the "Bearded Bastards" article....

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

Hopefully it sticks around and doesn't get canned if only so it won't be damn near impossible to get a slot now.

hussdan
hussdan 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

This motivates me. I go to SFAS at the end of this month, and this information right here makes my decision to pursue a SF career path pretty damn easy.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hussdan

 Good luck at SFAS

I'm far from SFAS, BUD/s or any other selection, but this definently make SF a more likable candidate for my option of unit.

Best of luck at SFAS, and hopefully at your ODA

rozhbash
rozhbash 5pts

So gone are the days of spending your entire SF career hoping to get a slot on a HALO team, let alone hanging out at the in-processing on the first day in the off chance that someone doesn't show up?  The 90s sucked :(

Connor31
Connor31 5pts

Pretty cool, but how is everyone going too maintain proficiency?

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Connor31 Good question...

bkgreenfeet
bkgreenfeet 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Connor31 gotta do some joint training with the air force guys! That's what a lot of the SF guard guys do. They know we can get them the planes. Of course, we'd probably want something in return...

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @bkgreenfeet  @Connor31 Flight hours...

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

Yes! so are all SF now going to be freefall qualified?

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Coriolis effect Eventually, yes.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 why do non-tier one special operations units like seals, marsoc and some green berets go through weeks of training for MFF and Combat dive, yet they rarely ever use those techniques, tier one uses those infil techniques more often but still not on many ops, for instance in A-stan, instead of patrolling 8-10 klicks to a target why dont they just haho a couple hundred meters out, and with combat dive, I know and SDV team did recon on a dam in the iraq invasion in 2003, and I understand that this AO doesnt really warrant a dive infil but was diving used consistently pre 9-11 at all

CT502
CT502 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @bkgreenfeet  @Coriolis effect   One other capability that practically no one outside of USASOC or some OGA elements understand is SF's unique and unmatched intelligence / reconnaissance capability (which is incredibly extensive, but I won't say much more than that about it).  I honestly think that SF Commanders want to highlight this capability to more policymakers, but simply can't due to the security concerns about explaining it.  It's a shame too, because it's definitely a strong suit.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @bkgreenfeet  @Coriolis effect The funny thing is that they were both lost in regards to Special Forces and seemed to have little idea as to what an ODA brings to the table.  Olsen didn't know what our language capabilities were and McRaven thought every ODA was HALO qualified.

bkgreenfeet
bkgreenfeet 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Coriolis effect Jack, it sure as hell didn't hurt that you had Olsen, followed by McRaven. Of course they're going to favor their own.

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Coriolis effect As for the losing ground bit, I'd also be surprised if that were actually the case (even taking into account what was claimed in the DEVGRU operator's open letter to Jack published here a while back).

 

That said, hostage rescue was mentioned above and it's one of the rare cases where we sometimes get reports in the media regarding the activities of SMUs. Off the top of my head, I believe the last six rescue attempts we've heard about have been all been credited to ST6. Two were at sea, three were in Afghanistan, and the other was in Somalia. Other than the two obvious cases where you'd expect DEVGRU to get the call... I don't know if it was politics or just the luck of the draw based on who was operating where and when, but six in a row (if reported accurately) is a bit interesting.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 Thanks, keep up the posting of USASOC on SOFREP, they cant get enough credit for what they've done, and they definently need to be given the spotlight (not by the public but by commanders when it comes to choosing a unit for an op) more often.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Coriolis effect It doesn't matter, Privates go to SFAS all the time.  I was a Corporal and got promoted to Sergeant while I was in the Q-Course.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 Yeah, an infantry unit operating in a country like pakistan alone and isolated isnt exactly the way you want to deal with the head of AQ. Yeah it is hard to tell, although like you said early Delta is the military's most professional unit so I think I'll strive for that, last thing though, for SF do you have to be a sgt or nco to attend SFAS or does it not matter what you are to attend and afterward they promote you to sgt.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Coriolis effect I definitely think that the OBL raid was rightly a JSOC mission.  That said, it was pretty straight forward to the point that a regular Infantry unit could have done the job but then if there were further complications, they would have reacted way differently than ST6 did.  As far as your question...that's pretty much impossible to answer as it depends on so many variables.  During "peace time" SEALs, Rangers, Delta, and pre-SOF Marine Force Recon guys saw action at certain times.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 you have a good point, but in my opinion, which doesnt mean shit, if youre taking out a high level hvt like ubl, id rather send a tier one unit that's operators have been in the shit for years and can react a lot quicker to what's around the next corner. That being said, I agree with you on the point of UW and FID, why are we having tier one work with indigenous forces, one its a waste of time for them because its not there mission and will only slow them down for a single raid, while you have SF which has the primary mission of UW and isnt exactly meant for one DA raid at a time, but more the disruption of large enemy force and its leaders. Just a quick question for me personally and my future and knowledge of what unit I want to try to be a part of, If we are in "peacetime"(if that actually is possible), what non-tier one unit is more likely to have an operation over say 4 year period? not including FID, but UW, DA, SR, CT and ops like that. 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Coriolis effect SF does have a designated DA company called the CIF, one per SF Group.  However, this is kind of getting into the problem I have with JSOC.  When there is a big mission going down, the brass is going to throw JSOC at it regardless of who is best suited for that mission.  I know I am going to take some flak for this, but oh well.  Loading a bunch of Delta operators on helicopters to go do a DA raid is kind of a waste of resources, at least in some cases.  Rangers can do that sort of thing.  Take for instance Delta hunting down OBL in Afghanistan with host-nation counterparts.  Unconventional Warfare like this is the mission of Special Forces.  I don't think partnering up with a battalion of third world militia is a part of Delta's METL tasks but at the end of the day, when you have a high level target, a target of strategic importance, than it doesn't really matter who is best qualified for that job in the eyes of the top brass.  You don't throw the best tool for the job at the problem, you just send in the best tool you have period.  No disrespect for JSOC at all, I love all those guys, I just wish that SOF units were used more appropriately and according to what they are specially trained to do.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR

 True, but when the Ranger QRF took casualties and was pinned down, why weren't the Seal platoon and KSK sent in, was it the fear of losing more operators or just the point that they werent qualified/on stanby as QRF.

And why in these types of DA or hits on Big objectives, why weren't SF ODAs involved, PJ, CCT, SEAL, Rangers, DEVGRU and AFO were, why not SF, Does SF have designated ODAs for DA missions, or was that just in Vietnam era

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Coriolis effect Well, in that instance, Rangers were on QRF if I am not mistaken.  Just loading up a MH-47 full of SEALs and taking off to react to something is an action that has proven historically disastrous on more than one occasion.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 For example neptune spear....*

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 Good, and if these guys in Delta are conducting ops, its good that the media and public don't know, these guys have given enough, they dont need there opsec to be compromised and them and there families to be endangered. And I see what your saying about politics and who is in command favors their unit. A great example was in Brandon's book 'The Red Circle', After operation Anaconda, the battle of Takur Ghar, Brandon and Echo platoon were on the helos ready to deploy as QRF, and they were replaced last minute by rangers because of political bullshit between commands. I understand that JSOC was made to stop the 'segragation' of special operations units and who gets whate ops, but it seems that theres even still contriversy between JSOC components neptune spear and whether delta or devgru got the go. I dont understand why they dont combine into one tier one unit, so there trully is no fighting between commands on who gets what ops and they can operate more fluently without contriversy.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Coriolis effect There are a lot of things that go into who gets chosen for what mission.  Some of it is practical and some of it is political.  I did not believe this for the longest time but apparently who is in charge really does determine who gets the mission in many cases.  In other words, McChrystal = Rangers, McRaven = SEALs.  Like I said, it is a lot more complicated, but apparently that dynamic does exist and is very real.  Based on what little I do know, I don't really think Delta is losing ground.  You just don't hear about what they are up to in the media.  At the end of the day, Delta is the US military's most professional unit and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

Great point about IEDs, and with that the number one reason for Coalition casualties, it should be even more evident that MFF or atleast static line (which was used by recon in iraq, i think i heard that here on sofrep) is the way to go. But in 2001 SF were in long before SEALs so I still think they have a stand when it comes to choosing a unit,(that was 11 years ago though). If theatre of war changed to say South East Asia or South America would maritime sub surface intel be a little more frequent? Also is Delta kind of loosing its ground when it comes to choosing ops, because it seems like DEVGRU has kind of taken its place as priority, I havent heard of an op (like hostage rescue) by delta in a long time. Is that the same thing as with SF vs. Seals, they have overall more qualifications, and even though it has nothing to do with the op, it makes them look more intailed.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Coriolis effect@JackMurphyRGR

It is somewhat complicated.  I will try to give an answer but it is sure to be incomplete.

 

One of the big factors is that these infiltration methods max out risk assessments.  Risk mitigation is seen as the decisive point of any military operation at many levels.  Free Fall operations would get shut down right off the bat because the risk assessment rubric would be maxed out and commanders did not want to assume the risk if things went bad.  Now they would never, ever hesitate to order a convoy of soldiers down a road where IED's go off every day, but MFF operations were apparently just too much, someone could get hurt doing that.

 

As in too many cases in my opinion, it took so-called Tier One units to innovate and take the risks before the rest of SOF got with the program.  Those units used MFF to great effect in a number of operations.  On the SF side, I have to give credit to 10th SFG for really being the first to seize upon modern MFF techniques.  I have also been told that the risk mitigation BS is going away for MFF but time will tell if this opens up this infiltration technique as an option for ODA's.  I hate to be cynical...but what I saw in SF was not very promising in this regard.  Officers want to play it as safe as possible.  I hope that I am wrong.

 

As far as dive operations, we've been operating in landlocked (for the most part) countries so that pretty much puts that off the table.  Talking to combat divers though, they've told me the same thing, risk mitigation put this infiltration method out of reach.  Now, there have been some sub-surface operations but these have been very far and few between to the point that it is almost not even worth mentioning other than perhaps as a proof of concept...sort of like how JSOC proved that yes, in fact you can use MFF in combat.

 

Then of course there are the purely political reasons mentioned above.  "Who is best qualified for this mission?"  Well, the SEAL Teams walk in the door and will tell the General/Admiral that every SEAL is combat diver/sniper/MFF/DLPT Level 4 in their target language completely regardless of what the reality of the situation was.  For this reason, there was some feeling that SF was losing missions to the SEALs because our guys were "under qualified" in the eyes of some of the brass.

 

And yes, the SEALs got some of the missions they wanted and proceeded to completely fuck them up because in fact they were not even remotely qualified to carry out those particular missions.

 

CandidateZero
CandidateZero 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

If selected I begin the Q in July I wonder if ill get a slot in a phase 3. I always wondered why it was a requirement for SEALs/CCT/PJs and not SF.

Coriolis effect
Coriolis effect 5pts

 @CandidateZero

 We'll CCTs did do a HALO jump into A-stan in the beginning of the War on terror in 2001 join a SEAL element that was supporting marines from the 15th MEU, as for seals and PJs, honeslty never heard them jump into combat in the past decade, maybe its just so less is needs to be taught if any of them get to green team for tier one, tier one does a few MFF, example: hostage rescue in somalia, capt. phillips rescue, one that is talking about in 'No Easy Day' in the beginning of the War on terror, and probably a few others that aren't known to the public

Evan95
Evan95 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Coriolis effect @CandidateZero PJ's did parachute into a minefield around 2003-4 to provide care to a kiwi SAS unit that had accidentaly walked into it. I would also think they've probably had to jump into a few more scenes over the years

bkgreenfeet
bkgreenfeet 5pts

 @Evan95  @Coriolis  @CandidateZero Yes, they have. But the Air Force REALLY doesn't like to talk much about their ground troops, especially those attached to the JSOC units.

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @CandidateZero It's complicated as well as political.  In my opinion, there is really no need to have all SOF MFF qualified.  Their is zero chance of having, say an entire SEAL Team or Special Forces Battalion HALO or HAHO into a theater of operation.  But what happens is that when General or Admiral Snaplink need to choose someone for their high speed/low drag ops they look at who is best "qualified" even if the mission has no HALO requirement.

CandidateZero
CandidateZero 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR that's what I had thought.

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