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Home » Op-Ed » A PJ’s Perspective on Bob Costas, Jason Whitlock, and the Media’s Gun Problem

A PJ’s Perspective on Bob Costas, Jason Whitlock, and the Media’s Gun Problem

by BK · December 14, 2012 · Posted In: Op-Ed
the Media’s Gun Problem
I was going to let this pass, I swear. There was a lot on my plate, I didn’t really have the time, but this story just got bigger and bigger. Pundits were a-punditing, pontificators pontificating, and the internet memes! So many, many memes… I held off for a few days, though. See, I learned my lesson when I tried to write about the David Patraeus scandal while it was still unfolding. Every time I thought I had a bead on what was happening, new information came out and the details of the story kept changing. I had to edit that damn thing every five minutes.

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Therefore, I thought I’d let the dust settle a bit on the l’affaire de Bob Costas, and wait ford the inevitable outrageous outrage, media hand-wringing, and convoluted explanations to die down a bit before I shared my thoughts on the issue.

So yeah, Bob Costas. Jesus, has he been around forever or what? You know, I always thought of the dude as a harmless, relatively dull network television fixture. I grew up with the guy, for chrissakes. I can’t remember a time when his cherubic face wasn’t on my television, whether it was covering football, baseball, or being in terrible, terrible movies.

But now, Costas is taking heat for his commentary on a Monday night football game between the Dallas Cowboys and Philadelphia Eagles. Upon hearing the news that Kansas City Chiefs player Javon Belcher had murdered his wife, Kassandra Perkins, and then killed himself with a legally purchased and owned handgun, he decided some editorializing about the need for further gun control was necessary during the halftime show.

This wasn’t a second amendment debate. This should have been an open and shut case of domestic violence. Indeed, turning it into a debate about handguns is highly insulting to Perkins, not to mention her mother, who watched her child die in front of her. But, since the killer in question happened to be very good at playing a game involving a ball, it became a Big Media Story, with much pearl-clutching that would never have taken place if the perpetrator wasn’t famous.

Some of Costas’ fellow media members are lauding his speech, calling him brave and daring for “taking a risk.” This is hilarious on its face, as I’m sure 95% of Costas’ colleagues in the media totally agree with his stance on guns. If you don’t think Costas cleared this editorial and had full support of his bosses at NBC, you are a bit of a dullard.

Nice timing, too. I mean, there probably won’t be a lot of 18-34 year old guys who like guns watching a football game in Dallas, Texas. Great job alienating your target audience, NBC. This is the equivalent to Rachel Maddow railing against plastic surgery during a “Real Housewives of Orange County” marathon.

Costas drew largely from an article written by sportswriter Jason Whitlock. Whitlock had concluded that if those darn handguns weren’t so prolific, then Belcher never would have killed anyone. Since Whitlock is one of the few sports journalists to ever say anything remotely interesting, I was a bit dismayed to have him toss in a bit of anti-gun hysteria into an otherwise dead-on article about the NFL’s callousness in making the Chiefs play the game the next day. It was only a couple of paragraphs in a much longer story, but it was the part that Costas paraphrased and obviously agreed with, and therefore worth examining a little closer.

First thing I noticed: Jovan Belcher, a 25 year old professional football player, is called a “kid” by Whitlock. Yes, a 6’2″, 230 lb. NFL linebacker is just a confused little boy, you see? Not a grown-ass man, not responsible for his own horrific actions.Whitlock, Costas and CNN host Piers Morgan completely believe that if it weren’t for guns, Belcher and Perkins would not be dead. To quote Costas on his halftime speech, “If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today.”

Obviously, this is just simply wild speculation. I’m pretty sure a man large enough to play in the NFL could kill in any number of ways. Costas should know this better than anyone, shouldn’t he? Hell, I could make an equally valid argument that if Perkins had had a gun, she would still be alive.

Then, instead of addressing the facts of a disturbed and violent man, Whitlock decides to turn this into a 2nd amendment conversation. Whitlock absurdly writes, “How many lives have to be ruined before we realize the right to bear arms doesn’t protect us from a government equipped with stealth bombers, predator drones, tanks and nuclear weapons?” Shit, in that case, we should have this pesky little Afghanistan thing wrapped up in a couple of weeks, huh?

Whitlock went on to compound his silliness with an incendiary interview on a television morning show, implying a bizarre conspiracy involving America’s inner cities and the NRA. See, Whitlock knows that the media LOVES when black journalists make incendiary comments about race in America- it’s a sure way to get invited on to the TV show circuit (See Sharpton, Al.) Whitlock stated:

“You know, I did not go as far as I’d like to go because my thoughts on the NRA and America’s gun culture – I believe the NRA is the new KKK. And that the arming of so many black youths, uh, and loading up our community with drugs, and then just having an open shooting gallery, is the work of people who obviously don’t have our best interests [at heart].”

Look, I realize Whitlock is just looking to be the controversial guy here – that’s part of his whole writing schtick. Not to mention, as an African- American, he is looking at the greater racial politics rather than the issue of legal gun ownership.

But let’s engage the argument he’s making while assuming that he actually believes this statement. First, it’s a silly notion. Yeah, the NRA is running around procuring illegal guns and pushing them into the arms of unwilling participants. This implies that the entire black youth population is completely without self-control or restraint, hapless victims who have no say in how they conduct themselves. This is condescension and paternalism at its worst. I know at least one black chick who would put a boot in your ass if you talked about her like that.

So he wants to talk about the racial angle? Fine, let’s do that. Unfortunately, Whitlock, along with the two other African-American panelists, Tom Joyner and Roland Martin (who would rather be talking about what’s wrong with white people, or telling black people to vote solely based on skin color) assigns no personal responsibility or shame. See, it’s far easier to blame the inanimate object than to start uncomfortable discussions about culture and failed municipal policies of America’s more violent cities.

Look at the data: Young black men have a murder rate 10 times that of whites. Half of the homicide victims in the United States are black males, though they make up only approximately 7% of the national population. The leading cause of death for black males 15-34 years old is homicide. Let me be completely blunt: These statistics, and the socio/economic, legal, and cultural issues that have helped lead to the current state of young black males in this country are a national disgrace, and not too many people seem to want to talk about it or how we can fix it. However, that still doesn’t mean I have any intention of giving up my right to self-defense or legally owning firearms because young black men are slaying each other far out of proportion to their percentage of the population.

To assign blame to the NRA, of all organizations, for this gloomy state of affairs is nonsensical, and Whitlock knows better. To his credit, he often discusses controversial issues in frank terms in his columns; issues relating to sports and race that other, white columnists wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. So I’m not trying to pile on the guy too hard. Actually, I think he’s a credit to the profession, but he is dead wrong in this case. Maybe he should have a sit-down with my man Ice-T.

Furthermore, Whitlock should read up on his history and research how guns actually helped American blacks in the south fight off the KKK. As Robert Franklin Williams, a North Carolina NAACP chapter president and former Marine, wrote in his famous 1962 book, “Negroes With Guns”:

“I have asserted the right of Negroes to meet the violence of the Ku Klux Klan by armed self-defense — and have acted on it. It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence.”

Whitlock tried to walk back his TV appearance a bit with a follow-up column a couple days later, saying he was tired, of all things, and wasn’t thinking clearly. He re-iterated that his original column had far more to do with the tone-deafness of the NFL than guns, as I recognized. But he still, if one may forgive a pun, stuck to his guns about his feelings towards firearms in general. Which led him to write this gem:

“Guns are toys in America. Guns are a dangerous hobby. Guns are a macho accessory, no different from a shiny sports car.”

Got that? Guns are toys. Not a tool, not a deterrent, and not a savior. Whitlock might want to ask watchmaker Lance Thomas if he considers guns “toys.” You see, Thomas, over a period of three years, was robbed four seperate times by eleven total assailiants. During these robberies, Thomas was wounded twice, taking five total rounds, and managed to kill five of his attackers. Good thing he had those “macho accesories.”

Or how about this 14 year old kid in Phoenix, who had a gun pointed at his face, and fought back? Or this 92 year old World War II vet? This 14 year old kid in North Carolina? Or this 18 year old mom? How about this 66 year old woman? Or this lady in Detroit?

See where I’m going with this? We aren’t all as fortunate as the wealthy, with gated communities, alarm systems, and security. When your home, your sanctuary, is violated by those looking to harm you, it is best to be prepared to act, swiftly, decicsively, and with deadly force, if necessary, to protect yourself and your loved ones. It only takes a quick scan of the news for some extremely grim reminders of what can happen when it goes badly.

The anti-gun crowd often seem to take the view that icky guns are unnecessary because we have the police. Allow me to tell you a hard truth that never gets said out loud: The police rarely prevent crime. They are around to hopefully catch the guys who perpetrate the crime, and lock them up so they won’t do it again. By the time a call is made, (IF it gets made,) the deed is already done. The police come in to draw chalk outlines for the victims and clean the place up.

Costas and Whitlock don’t seem to want to admit that as much as we pretend we are civilized, we still have the savage who walks amongst us. Do you think that triple homicide victim Alina Bukhantsov, her three year old daughter, and two year old son, are resting easier because their killer was caught? Maybe Armod R. Law, his throat slit and shot in the head, is taking comfort somewhere that his killer is going to prison. But they are dead, gone forever, and nothing will ever bring them back. While a gun may not have saved their lives, it may have at least given them a fighting chance.

Yes, more guns lead to more overall gun violence. Just as more automobiles lead to more car wrecks, swimming leads to drownings, and listening to Barbara Boxer speak can cause one to fly into a rage. But that’s part of the deal.

I, for one, am not willing to give up my Constitutional rights because some people choose to misuse those rights. Not to mention there are over 300 million guns in the United States alone; I’d say that the great ship Confiscation has sailed. Besides, the rednecks hillbillies avid gun collectors would go apeshit.

The second amendment exists to guarantee our right to keep and bear arms to protect us from tyranny. Centuries of case law give us the right to protect ourselves and our property from violent criminals bent on doing mayhem. What happened to Kassandra Perkins is a horrible thing, caused by a horrible man. The tool he used to commit the act is not responsible, Jevon Belcher is responsible.

All of this controversy is clounding the larger isssue: That the mainstream media, due to a combination of political and cultural leanings, is completely ignorant when it comes to guns and gun-related topics. Asking them to understand guns and how they work is difficult enough; asking them to understand the people who use and enjoy guns is nearly impossible.

When Whitlock to say that guns are merely, “a macho accessory,” this conveys to me the sort of gun-owner he has been around, not the gun itself. In the SOF community, guns are not toys or an accessory, they are a tool in the war chest, a tool that many, many serious men have spend their lives mastering. This familiarity leads to respect for the weapon and weapons culture, and leads to ignorance among the chattering classes, many of whom (wild-ass guess here) are never around weapons.

They can’t get even get the most basic facts right, improperly referring to “clips” and solomnly lecturing about “ballistic clothes.” Remember the Colorado theater shooting, where the media breathlessly reported the shooter clad head to toe with “full body armor,” when he was merely wearing a tactical vest? (there is a small possibility he had a soft armor vest underneath, but the case has been sealed by the judge, so the cops aren’t talking. He almost certainly had no ballistic plates.) Of course, none of them know the difference. Hell, Costas himself repeated this crap when he was clarifying his remarks to USA Today:

“There are people who honestly believe that in Aurora (Colo.) if only a dozen or so people there to watch the Batman movie had been packin’, they would have been able to take down the nut job in full body armor with military-type guns. I think any police officer if you told them that would roll their eyes.”

Not only does Costas repeat the false assertion about body armor, he also has the temerity to assign the police as the final arbiters of what is and is not possible for a determined opponent to do with a gun. Bob, the police are hardly the last word when it comes to accuracy. As the old joke goes, there are two things a cop can’t do: drive and shoot. I’ll decide for myself who I can and can’t take down; I don’t need a cop’s opinion, and I certainly don’t need a subject matter expert like you deciding for me. I know I sure as hell would have rather had a gun had I been in that theater.

‘Ol Bob also chucked out this little factoid: According to him, men in their 20′s and 30′s are incapable of owning a gun without something bad happening. Well, shit. Thank God I have Bob Costas, Young Man Expert, to explain to me how stupid and prone to violence I am. I think Costas should just spend some time perusing this website and read about these alleged guns that only cause trouble.

Members of the media: if you don’t know anything about guns or gun culture, talk to someone who looks like this guy.

Far be it from me to point out a problem and not offer a solution. Perhaps the background of media members’ isn’t quite diverse enough, for all of their hand-wringing over that particular subject. Is there  a single network or cable news anchor or reporter that ever served in a combat arms unit? Is there a single well-known newspaper writer? We are not being served well if we have a media that is so unfamiliar with a very significant part of American culture. The answer? Hire some SOF veterans to fact-check and consult on journalism reports before they get on televsion or the newspaper.

The media has been carrying on for a long time about the need to hire all of these combat veterans who are coming home to a crappy economy. They could take the lead and start hiring these guys as fact-checkers and firearms experts. And I’m not talking about the vast array of retired generals that seem to pop up on television all the time to burnish their credentials; I’m talking about all of those non-commisioned officers who have spent the last decade in the combat arms business.

These men come home to a country where their particular expertise isn’t exactly a hot commodity. Many have difficulty adjusting to the civilian world, feeling lost and ill at ease in a country that is far removed from the conflicts that they have experienced. Why can’t the media start branching out and hire on some of these veterans to bring their knowledge to the newsroom? It would bring a refreshing change of perspective to a TV and newspaper business that is predictably uninformed and uninterested in the men and weapons that have been at war for over a decade. Lord knows, it can’t hurt.

I can think of one or two or three or four guys right off the bat who might be useful.

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BrentDavid
BrentDavid 5pts

Even though I am a little liberal...I still love my guns! And what I dont undersand is last year (2011) 32,700+ were killed in auto accidents. Also last year 31,500 were killed by guns (if you take suicide out of the equation it leaves roughly 13,300 people killed--not by themselves--with guns). The two major causes for death by vehicle where blunt force trama caused by speed and fire caused by gasoline...so wheres the cry for slower speed limits and smaller gas tanks...?

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Off Topic, but there was a discussion on this thread about H. Clinton testifying:  So from today's AP news is confirmation that the report is being released PRIOR to the date that she would have testified. And no use getting all heated up about it, because that's the way it works..the testifying before a closed committee is a formaliity.  Not even McCain showed up for many of them.  The real work takes place elsewhere. I said earlier that it wouldn't matter if she testified or not, but hey..who the heck listens to me anyway?

 

 "The independent review board is set to reveal its findings on the Sept. 11 attack in Libya that killed a U.S. ambassador and three other Americans.

The Obama administration hopes the report will bolster its assertion that diplomats took all reasonable measures to anticipate and respond to the violence. Retired Ambassador Thomas Pickering and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Adm. Mike Mullen led the independent review, which will also recommend ways to keep such an attack from happening again.

The classified section of their report was scheduled to be delivered to Congress Tuesday, with an unclassified summary to be made public on Wednesday. State Department officials will testify to Congress on Thursday.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was to have appeared Thursday, but cancelled because of illness".

 

Txazz
Txazz 5pts

 @StormR Right, Stormy - it was always a given that the Committee report was being released before her testimony.  Glad you reported the update to us.

Copecyn924
Copecyn924 5pts

 @Txazz  @StormR 

Ladies, I can't wait until this year is "OVER!!"  My heart has been ripped out more times than I can remember ever happening.  Pray things turn around for 2013....

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @BLACK01  Hey bro, I Agree with your comments, even tho livefyre won't

bring them back up!!  You definitely have an "Amen Corner" with me!!....6

-BLACK-
-BLACK- 5pts

 @Recon6 My browser completely fucked all my comments up by putting them all out of order.  I cant tell where things begin or end so I end up looking like a fuckin idiot.   I dont know if its livefyre or what but I am not able to point and click through this shit like I should be and when it does finally load, it finds some way to fuck it all up.    

JustinPerez1
JustinPerez1 5pts

so fricken true. Good job!

BulletTooth32
BulletTooth32 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

God damn i love this post! Publish this in the fuckin New York Times. Get those libs some facts

shagstar
shagstar 5pts

lol,,

http://reidsright.blogspot.com/2012/12/jabba-hut-says-obama-should-exploit.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FEPdTm+%28SHE%27S+RIGHT%29&utm_content=Yahoo%21+Mail

 

Txazz
Txazz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

How bout this one - couldn't believe my eyes.

http://www.libertynews.com/2012/12/new-army-manual-tells-soldiers-not-to-be-critical-of-taliban-or-pedophilia/

dmalert
dmalert 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Txazz Probably just preconditioning returning soldiers so they won't be offended by all the pedophiles in DC and Hollywood.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @Txazz  funny how political correctness goes out the window when dealing with anything islamic (don't want to say that women or children have moral rights do we?.. not criticize or anything... <sarcastically)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Txazz

 Right... we've been there for almost 12 years and this last year's increase in insider attacks is due to cultural insensitivity on our part and our distaste for their prediliction for pedophilia. What BS!

Copecyn924
Copecyn924 5pts

 @LauraKinCA  Laura, did you get my emails?

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Txazz  I think it's funny... we don't want to be culturally insensitive--at the end of a gun. (the question is which end of who's gun)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Txazz

 So many screwed up policies!!

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

can you believe this shit??

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/12/15/clinton_wont_testify_on_benghazi_due_to_illness

dmalert
dmalert 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @shagstar Yes I can.  I'm sure you can appreciate that Hillary doesn't want to go to jail for perjury or worse.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dmalert  @shagstar

 No matter how much I personally loathe the Clintons, and I do, I'm having a hard time thinking she faked getting sick and falling down and getting a concussion. I'm with you guys though that she will do most anything to get out of testifying, but this seems legit. It will be something else the next scheduled time though I'm sure.

Copecyn924
Copecyn924 5pts

 @LauraKinCA  @Txazz  @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar Well, she has been looking like "shit" lately!!  HA!!  Can you tell I had a bad day, I'm feeling "FAINT", bet a 1/2 gallon of "Rocky Road" or bottle of wine will make it all BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell, Friday, end of the world, I'm going to COLD STONE!!!  HA!!

Copecyn924
Copecyn924 5pts

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar We had this same conversation earlier this afternoon.  I'm sure plenty of money was "shelled" out, concussion, my ass!!!!

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @jrexilius  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA  Hillary has plenty to lose by testifying.  She'll be on the record commenting about Benghazi something that may be very uncomfortable come election season 2016.

 

E.G.  Kerry's numerous sytatements and positions before the 2004 election season were contrasted with his current positions to demonstrate what a "politician".

 

Not having quotes or video on Hillary's role on Benghazi are very much to her benefit.  Politically astute people know that.

 

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @hjw1dr  @majrod  @LauraKinCA  hjw1dr, I don't know if she went to a hospital or not as I haven't heard any reports that she did or did not, or even if she went to a doctor's office.  Perhaps you have.  Irregardless, I have been hospitalized twice for dehyrdation, and only because when it reaches the point that it starts taking moisture from one's organs, drinking anything doesn't help.  One has to have IV fluids.  Only 1 of those two stays were overnights.  I have never been hospitalized for concussions and I've had 3 of those.  As a high-level government official, I would guess that she has a cadre of doctors that go to her.  I'm not a medic or doctor, and in fact have no medical experience outside of my own, but there are medics on SOFREP that could speak to it with much more authority and expertise...particularly with the experience they've gained from TBI's in the field.   As for releasing medical records, medical records are held to be confidential for all citizens, and she IS a citizen of the US.  I do not want to open that can of worms that medical records are allowed to become public information.   In my state, I have been excused from jury because I was sick - without a doctor testifying.  It just took note from a doctor.  I don't know the rules for congressional hearings, although I once refused to testify simply because I'm afraid of flying and I felt my testimony wasn't important enough to spend 3+ hours in a plane.  I did not get fined or thrown in jail.   I agree that she probably does not want to testify, but even she isn't arrogant enough (and she's amazingly arrogant) to think that she can 'fake' it, particularly with the amount of people involved in pulling it off.  

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @jrexilius  @hjw1dr  @majrod  @LauraKinCA   I detest H. Clinton and have always envisioned her as the power behind the throne.  It is easy for me to believe the scenario because #1, it's absolutely plausible.  Anyone who has had a stomach virus (or their child has) knows that dehydration is a real possibility because of the 'elimination' of body fluids caused by the virus (puking and diarrhea).  Dehydration can lead to face planting, and face planting can cause concussions.  What surprises me is that no one here - on a forum with a lot of political astute people - has mentioned that she has absolutely nothing to lose by testifying or not testifying.  Susan Rice as already set up to become the sacrificial lamb, and that's exactly how it played out.   H. Clinton already announced that she was leaving the job of Secretary of State, so has no fear of being fired.  And as for her reputation, she knows she can weather any smears, particularly since the country is focused on economics and the 'fiscal cliff'.  It's a win-win situation for her if she testifies or if she doesn't.  In her place, I would drag my tail out of bed and testify simply because it's the right thing to do.  H. Clinton, however, does not calculate her actions on what is the 'right thing to do'.   I also remind folks that she is 65 years old...frankly, one does not recover from things quite as quickly at that age.  She had her shot at the presidency and failed.  There will not be a repeat attempt - her time has passed and she knows it.   I think she'll join her husband's foundation and just rake in the bucks.

jrexilius
jrexilius moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @StormR  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA  @majrod  I tend to agree with you Stormy, that it's plausible and not worth taking at other than face value. 

 

There may also be an aspect of truth to the view that she may have sucked it up and made things happen if she felt it was important enough.  I remember Bush Sr. puking on a Japanese leader (?) because he kept working while sick. He felt it was important enough.  It may or may not have backfired on him doing so (bad press of the puking incident aside, his objectives may have been accomplished, who knows).

 

Regardless of her degree of actual illness, it's not worth second guessing and I would tend to let it slide.  My personal bias comes from my experiences as well. Having been a CEO of a small company before with investors, customers and employees depending on you I understand the sometimes fluid trade off of health and being present.  Sometimes if you are not at 100% it's better to postpone, sometimes it's better to suck it up and slog through, but it's hard to second guess from the outside.

 

jrexilius
jrexilius moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @majrod  @hjw1dr  @jrexilius Yeah, I may be too close to the topic but I've got strong opinions from working too many operations under Clinton.  I was.. lucky?.. to be an intel guy and have more insight into the flow of information and orders between his administration and the DoD (and friends) and saw the impact on the ground.  Having a birds eye view on that tends to give you.. strong opinions.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr Off subject?  Yeah, mention of Benghazi  will do that.  Keep in mind the committee is the Senate Foreign Relations  committee.  Kerry is the head of that committee and who's going to be the  next Sec State?

 

 @jrexilius Yes,me to.  Before any Clinton  appearance in the '90's we had a special "talk" before the event. Respect  the office, don't embarrass the Academy or the Army.

 

I hadn't considered the similarities between the Mog and Somalia.  Excellent point.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @jrexilius  @StormR  @majrod  @LauraKinCA  JRex, I' have a friend of the family (my father knew him) who worked security for Governor Clinton in the 80s. The stories he told were awful. (Like being on hand when Clinton asked his guards to sneak in regularly different 'professional' ladies into the Governor Mansion). It never came out because money was passed around to the ladies, who went underground. 

jrexilius
jrexilius moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @hjw1dr  @StormR  @majrod  @LauraKinCA  God I despised serving under that scum bag.  Totally personal comment here but every time a Clinton is in charge good people get hung out to dry in some third world shit hole and then swept under the rug.  Mogadishu and Benghazi have some striking similarities.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR  @majrod  @LauraKinCA  But we've gotten WAY off topic here... 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @StormR  @majrod  @LauraKinCA  Stormy please don't take this personally. I'm sure you've have experiences of fainting, so have I. But I've also been called as witness in court. Could I get out of testifying by saying I was sick? No... I'd have to prove it by having my doctor testify under oath that I was too ill to testify. 

Unfortunately the Clintons have a history of dodging legal questions (And I'm not just talking M Lewinski here-- there's whitewater and other accusations that took place in AR of impropriety when he was governor).

Was she ill? Maybe. But my question is this: Why put out a statement that she cannot testify 6 DAYS before she is due to testify? Wow, that must be a VERY serious illness if it is taking her out of circulation for that long.

Was she hospitalized? No. What facts do we have (really)? Has she released medical records for proof? No. Should she have to do so? Yes. If this was a court of law, and she was called to testify, the judge would order her to court unless he received official records from a doctor (and the doctor was under oath). And the testimony would be continued... (She should be subpoenaed by the HOUSE or SENATE. just because a person puts out a statement does not mean they are telling the truth... 

Txazz
Txazz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @majrod  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA Stormy I don't doubt for a minute your own experience and believe you.  I fully understand why you wouldn't doubt Hillary's experience.  No one is doubting you or your own physical experiences.  No, not at all.  You however are an honest and true blue woman.  I would fight anyone who said otherwise.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @StormR "Give me one - just one - fact that the evil empress and her minions fabricated a  virus, dehydration and a concussion."

 

I never said they were all false.  

 

And you forgot a couple...

 

virus

dehydration

faint

fall

concussion

and before the hearing... 

 

 

 

 

  @LauraKinCA

 

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA  Note:  I didn't say she did.

 

Give me one - just one - fact that the evil empress and her minions fabricated a virus, dehydration and a concussion.  I'm assuming here that you are assuming the doctors are her minions.  

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @StormR   Facts are never inconvenient...  when they are facts.

 

Note: Hillary didn't go to the hospital.

 

@hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA

 

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA Yup, it's a bitch when facts are inconvenient.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @StormR  yes, let's add "my stomach hurts" to the litany of excuses.

 

Man, this stuff never worked for me when I was a kid.   Silly me, if I hadn't given up SOMEONE would have believed me...

 

@hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA

 

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA   I should also mention that I have chronic dehydration and have gotten a couple of mild concussions after face planting on a couple of occasions...it sucks.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA  I thought you were the one who only believed 'facts', Majrod.  She cancelled meetings - including one on Syria - because of the stomach virus. I'm sure her schedule is available to you online somewhere.   And yes, a stomach virus can lead to dehydration - check that fact with your doctor.  And yes, dehydration can cause dizzness, loss of balance and fainting - check with your own doctor if you don't want to believe mine.   And unfortunately, Majrod, virus don't care about calendars and schedules...it's a bug.    At least this lets me know how much you really do relay on 'facts'.  I passed out at my father's funeral due to dehydration.  That was mighty inconvenient as well.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR "Having had experience with the flu, dehydration (a number of times) and  concussion - brain swelling - it is perhaps easier for me to believe the  documented facts."

 

No doubt.  How often have they happened consecutively right before having to go on jury duty.and while having a personal aide, security and doctor to care for your well being?

 

The events alone aren't suspicious.  The back to back occurrence (dehydrated, to the point of fainting, that results in a concussion) and timing (week before congressional hearings) must be quite impressive statistically speaking.

 

The dog just happened to eat my term paper right before it was due is more likely (one less incident) and believable.

 

 @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA

 

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA  Not much to say then, hjw1dr...you either believe the doctors are lying or not.  I seem to remember a lot of theories here that the whole Gen. Petreaus scandal was engineered by the administration so that he wouldn't be able to testify.  I was willing to believe that.  And of course, he did testify.   I lost confidence in those kind of theories after that.  I find it difficult to believe that doctors are willing to jeopardize their own careers and break their medical oaths by lying.  I don't doubt that HC would like to avoid testifying, but causing her own concussion just doesn't seem plausible to me. 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR  @LauraKinCA  Problem is whether you believe the messenger is telling the truth about those facts. A sign of how little we trust what we are told now.

Personally, bad timing or not, I'd almost have to know the doctor in attendance personally or put the thermometer in her mouth myself-- to trust this isn't more stonewalling--I just don't trust what is reported much anymore-- no matter their politics. 

StormR
StormR 5pts

 @LauraKinCA  It's simple, Laura.  Either one accepts the documented facts or one chooses to disregard the documented facts because one doesn't believe or like them.   Having had experience with the flu, dehydration (a number of times) and concussion - brain swelling - it is perhaps easier for me to believe the documented facts. 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod     Just listen to me.  You'll be fine.  (LMAO)

 

 @LauraKinCA 

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Txazz  @hjw1dr  @dmalert 

Hillary Clinton faints, falls, suffers concussion; official cites stomach virus.Sounds like Benghazi Flu Type A. Take two aspirin and call us after the Senate hearing.

 

a news source quote!  lmao

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod

 Is is a bad thing that that made me laugh :) Glad to know you are looking out for me and my naivety.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @LauraKinCA  Just listen to me.  You'll be fine. 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod @StormR      

 I love how I am taking it on the chin from both sides here :)

Too trusting and too skeptical.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @LauraKinCA  Concussion? I want a second opinion.

 

Let's see, she allegedly fainted because she was just dehydrated enough to cause it.  Concussion fron the fall but not bad enough to stop working from home?  Really? 

 

You may not believe she's faking it.  Past history, coincidences - dehydrated enough to faint resulting in a slight concussion...  Serious enough to go home but not enough to stop working...  (and avoid questions of stamina during a potential future election bid). 

 

You're very generous with your trust. 

 

 @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar

 

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Txazz  @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar  She had a stomach flu for over a week and got dyhradated- seems perfectly plausible.  She fainted from the dyhradration, seems perfectly plausible - I've been there done that.  She got a concussion from the fall, seems perfectly plausible - I've been there done that.   She's under doctor's orders to 'rest', again seems perfectly plausible and is the same advice I got from my concussion.   She cancelled a trip to Europe because of the stomach virus, so there's an evidence trail that she was indeed ill.   I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying into the conspiracy theory on this one.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Txazz  @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar

 I'd love to be proved wrong in my assuption, but there never seems to be any proof for those two and their actions, or at least none that get out - except for that crusty blue dress :)

 

This whole thing does bring out the sympathy vote of MSM - working so hard while sick, got dehydrated, fainted (really, Hill fainting?!?), cracks her noggin and presto perfect excuse.

Txazz
Txazz 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar Hillary has done everything she could to NOT testify and what is another lie.  I don't believe her story for one moment.  I appreciate your comment as to our normal thinking it would seem extreme.

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @dmalert 

with this new breed of politicians,,there is no such thing as accountability anymore!

people die on their watch and all they do is cover their ass's,

 

all of them! 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @shagstar  @hjw1dr  @dmalert

 I don't think they have ever looked lily white, but they sure skate by some shit that I thought would stick and derail that machine.

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @dmalert 

these scumbags will resort to anything in order to look like the pure driven snow!

they are busted,,plain and simple and are desperate.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @shagstar

 There is that... I wouldn't put it past them, but it does seem a bit extreme to fake a concussion.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @dmalert  @shagstar  My assumption. Sorry. I didn't read the whole article and did not know she had a concussion. (Though being sick isn't hard to fake if you have cooperative doctors-- take the doctores who offered sick excuses for rioting Union personnel in WI, and MI. 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @dmalert  @shagstar She does not want to go on record period. (Especially if she runs in 2016. )

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