Drone Strike: Navy Replaces All Sailors With Overpaid Contractors To Cut Costs

 @majrod Yup.  I remember when the Post did that expose on top secret America.  The found 17 different agencies tracking terrorist money laundering.  I was discussing this with a POC in DC.  He was like - all different missions!  I was like - bullshit.  It's just 17 different sets of software/hardware/etc.  So it's good for business - bad for national debt.  I wanted the sequestration to go through actually.

 @Tango9 I think that many of these officers aren't getting hired so much as a result of their rank but the billets they held while serving and the people they know who serve in similar billets and are still in. So when a company comes up with a new widget to sell to the military or when the military starts asking for a new product/weapons system their former officer can plug into the good ol' boy network and start plugging their companies offering to all of their former buddies who are doing the buying/evaluating/recommending. Even when all of their buddies have left the military they still can be useful because I'm sure that the acquisitions people are going to be more inclined to someone who had previously served than a civilian suit who never served a day in their life.

 @majrod  @dmalert  @Tango9  @OPR I totally agree with you, our (potential) enemies have learned since the Black Hawk Down incident that in order to win against the US all you have to do is simply bloody our noses and we'll back off. Since Vietnam they've learned that even if we don't back down after one bloody nose if you hang on long enough and bloody our noses long enough public opinion will eventually turn in their favor and we'll pull out.

 @Tango9  @majrod Amen to that.

 @dmalert  @majrod Don't get me started about State.  Fucking traitor's paradise.  That agency has done more to undermine the Republic than any million commies.  Want me to start listing traitorous shithead names?  Let's see:

John Stewart Service

Alger Hiss

Harry Hopkins

Solomon Alder (treasury)

Millard Tydings

Owen Lattimore...

Hundreds of others.  Shit just read the Venona papers.  State has been communist from the core since 1935.

 @dmalert  We are going to agree to disagree.  Partly because we can't go into the level of detail we want to in an open forum (the "right tech" combo point).

One can emplace persistent stare over fixed locations.  One can emplace persistent stare over a planned operation given the time and assets to emplace it.  We don't have the assets to maintain it long before or after the op which provides the enemy a window.  Nor do we have the assets to identify/action all IED emplacements observed.

 @Tango9 Wasn't saying no filters rather like you said easier path for those with proven potential and greater control on those with edu that shouldn't lead.  And this applies all over the place.  Don't know what degree they require at state, but it isn't the right one.

 @majrod Highways, bridges, main roads, bases, checkpoints - yes.  Every dirt path in Afghanistan - no.  Cities way harder, but better job is doable.  Problem is right mix of tech is not used, which gets directly back to where primes make the most money = greed.  And it is beltway lobbying greed or just crazy ideas and no central organization that has caused Afghanistan to fail.  We (lobbyists) went in like conquistadors and just took - no stability what a surprise!!!  At least the Spanish were consistent - the raped the countries of gold or other.  We did it by selling treasury bonds.  Don't know if it's possible to rape oneself, but the primes figured it out.

 @dmalert It is a mistake to do that, but you do have to have filters at some level.  Imagine a 100 privates who suddenly made Lt.  Sweet, low crawling jesus...

The bachelor's degree wicket to commission isn't a bad thing.  It at least says you can focus long enough to get a degree and have at least some self-discipline.  You have to have something there to weed out the nitwittery.

Having said that:  There should be an easier path to commissioning for E-6+.  Granted, I know that some branches allow.... fk me I'm getting keylogged... rebooting, running everything.  brb. 

(edit) well that was fun.  Rookie script, and crushed, but I haven't downloaded pr0n in like 20 years so it was targeted.

Now I'm fuckin' paranoid.

 @dmalert  You really believe we have the assets to watch EVERY piece of ground 24/7 without pause and observe EVERY act of IED placement?  (let alone action the information e.g. take out the enemy, IED or warn troops in time)

 @Tango9 The value of an MBA varies based on the school.  Go to a top school and it's worth a lot.  My thought is that everyone has innate gifts and one is best served using these gifts.  Take leadership - you have it or you don't and while it can be refined you can't teach it to people totally devoid of it.

So I think it's a mistake to allow entry to leadership positions solely based on education, good grades, etc.  Just my two cents..

 @dmalert Really good friend of mine made the mistake of getting his BA from Phoenix.  Phoenix is so bad that my wife's company doesn't even recognize degrees from there:  if you submit a resume with that on it, it goes right in the trash.

He didn't know any better and was just trying to do the best thing at the time.... THEN he went on and got an MBA.  I tried to tell him:  "Sam, no.  No... NO." but he wouldn't listen.

 @majrod True on the worthless physics Ps.  That's for sure.

I was highlighting the fact that there's a caste system.  But shoot we all already knew that.

It's always bee fashionable to beat up on officers!  Comes with the bars (or oak leaf, in your case)!  It's fun and it passes the time!

If we really hated you we wouldn't talk to you. ;)

Needs to be an RU T-Shirt that says "Officers are people, too!"

 @Tango9 This shit goes on all over the place.  The MBA degree for example qualifies one for nothing yet people seem to value it.  End result is people take it and as a result end up in management positions that they have not earned and may or may not be qualified for.  Just cause you're book smart doesn't mean you're fit to lead - big disconnect here. 

There is a system of control in society and if you want a given position then you have to go through the prescribed training and in this way those in control don't get surprised.  So the system tends to weed out those that might change it. 

 @majrod I disagree on persistence surveillance.  Very doable and affordable, but can't debate it.  We can agree to disagree. 

 @dmalert  I chose the weapon for a simplified example.  Any piece of equipment or approach is going to need the proper training and tactical application.  E.G. Different jammers have different impacts on your commo and battle command systems.  Persitent observation just isn't an option across a whole country for a multitude of reasons airframes, control, information handling  etc.

When it comes to red tape you have a point, then again JEIDDO has some successes also. Acquisition is SOOOOOOO screwed up!  The bottom line is I don't think things would have been any better and likely a lot worse without them. 

There's ceertainly room for disappointment.  I just wouldn't go as far as to call them a failure though as time passes organizations tend to be very hard to kill.  I suspect the bang for the buck to diminish as time passes but we'll have JEIDDO for a long time.

 @Tango9  You well know I'm no fan of Generals but less than 1% of the officers ever attain that rank.  Quite a few less than physics "P"s and as we both know there are some physics P's that are worthless and may even have a DUI.

When one stereotypes he runs the risk of painting with a very broad brush.  I'd be interested to find out what most Generals do once they retire.  Many I bet take on positions on a board, I know quite a few that start their own businesses (Eaton, McCaffery come to mind) the truth is they retire with a pretty comfortable pension and one I say they deserve considering the path to Generalship..   

There are some officers that give everyone a bad name.  It's also very fashionable to beat up on officers, very few here are officers.  Some absolutely deserve it but without specifics it sounds very much like penis envy.  Like you said, "Doesn't mean I'm special, I just did what I chose to do,"

I know some crappy officers that seemed to get great deals when they left the service.  Their numbers are dwarfed by others that continued to make concrete contributions to the nation. 

BTW, as for E7's.  I know of several E7 that did step into good paying positionsas DoD employees and as contractors.  Some even went to work for companies they were involved in evaluating a product (Land Warrior-general Dynamics, M4-Colt and I could think of some more if I went through my rolodex).  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. 

I also find it hard to believe Generals had DUIs.  That may be an Air Force thing which may be coloring your whole outlook on officers and what they are capable of. ;)

There's a lesson there... 

 @majrod  @OPR I stepped out as an E-5.  couple degrees later I was making $100k.  But it's the degrees that did it, obviously not the rank.  And I picked degrees that fucking sucked ass to get:  90 hour weeks studying and miles of ass-busting papers and treatises: I earned every inch of them.  I started that path when I was wearing a campaign hat.  Pushing troops 15 hours a day, training other MTIs and sneaking in chemistry, calculus, history, all the basic crap you have to take.

I slept at work.  For 3 years.

Doesn't mean I'm special, I just did what I chose to do, but what I take exception with is Lt Col Smith, who couldn't lead his way out of a latrine gets hired on as a "consultant" for $120k a year based on rank. That's an advantage I never had.

Hell, even after I got my cushy contractor job, my boss was a ret light bird who was worthless and his boss was equally worthless.  They stepped into those positions right out of the gate.  Could a ret E-7 step into that position in any company?  Not Fucking Ever.  Not just never but N E V E R.

The difference is:  you can be an O-7 with a degree in hair brushing and STILL get a $200k job just because you have a star.  I can guarantee you I'm more capable than 5 of the 7 generals I served under.  Shit, 2 of them had DUIs.

Get a DUI as a SSgt and watch what happens.

 @majrod  @Tango9  @OPR Just to clarify I think the larger issue is one of the lobbying power held by primes, but the military officer next career step does come into play to a lesser degree as does the idea that no one ever got fired for buying from Boeing or LMCO.  The irony of the military bit is that by virtue of being senior and having commanded people is a skill sought after in the private sector.   So officers are not limited to prime work only.

 @majrod  Fair enough.  As for red teams - depends on the competence of the team (not a minor issue and I have seen lack thereof)  and how independent they are.   I understand your point on standards like JP8 or a given rifle, but I think it's an entirely different issue. 

Think of  a high security facility - physical guards, motion detectors, lasers, visual, ir, etc.  It's valuable so you protect it every way you can and with the knowledge that the threats are different - someone breaking in vs. someone driving an explosive laden van into the main gate.  Same thing with counter IED.

While one is talking about different systems they can all be integrated on the back end and work on the fly.  This is quite doable, but some one must centrally drive the process - JIEDDO or other.  Not effective if the Army does their thing and the Marines another.  Also keep in mind what you use to monitor a road is not the same stuff deployed at a checkpoint or the same stuff used to monitor a city street.  As the actual threat or how it's delivered can vary.

My disappointment was JIEDDO was supposed to be this new fast to deploy org - little to no red tape.  Got a lot of people excited and at the end of the day just another bureaucracy and I know a great many people that share my opinion.

 @dmalert  I'll have to take your word for it.  I understand any more detail could become an OPSEC issue.  I'm familiar with approaches that aren't common knowledge.

I would be very surprised that JEIDDO isn't using a red team.

One thought, the more solutions one has the more difficult they are to operate and support.  Think of different rifles and having to train troops differently for simple tasks like immediate action let alone supply ammo.  You get the same issues with different robots.

@Tango9  @OPR

 @majrod  @Tango9  @OPR mixed persistent cmos surveillance on all roads, culverts, etc.  subsurface imaging, mixed rf tracking, mixed molecular detection, mixed UAV, DUGS, etc.  Not going into specifics on any of this, but you need to attack the problem with several different techs and people will adapt, but you can put a squeeze on the problem and then you keep innovating based on how tech is attacked or circumvented and also internally JIEDDO would need a team trying to beat their own tech.  There's other stuff as well.  When primes have a lock on business they don't have to innovate as much and they often win business they shouldn't.  Keep in mind that primes would get the maintenance/deployment end of the biz anyway. 

 @dmalert Well I can't tell you where the 20 bil went but what better tech are you referring to for my own edification?  

@Tango9  @OPR

 @majrod  @Tango9  @OPR Agree there is no war without people getting killed - civilian or soldiers, but a much better job could have been done - much better.  A lot of much better tech was not deployed.  JIEDDO needs to be defunded.  Where's the ROI on the $20 billion spent?

 @Old PH2   Not familiar at all with the site you are referring to. 

  @Tango9   You guys use a very similar avatar.  My bad.

 @dmalert  I'm hearing you but not understanding.  How did JEIDDO fail in its charter? 

"The JIEDDO shall focus (lead, advocate, coordinate) all Department of Defense actions in support of the Combatant Commanders’ and their respective Joint task forces’ efforts to defeat IEDs as weapons of strategic influence."  JEIDDO mission statement

Simply stated there's no way to stol all IEDs.  Mines have existed since gunpowder was invented and there is no one solution to all IEDs.

JEIDDO does fail in IEDs effectiveness as a strategic weapon but that part of their mission is as unrealistic as expecting zero civilian casualties in war.  There is no way JEIDDO could impact the strategic effectiveness of IEDs unless it was chartered and equipped to change America's belief that wars are conducted with no cost to ourselves in casualties.

@Tango9  Not familiar at all with the site you are referring to.

@OPR

Oh I'll shutup wife says he stated militarytimes website.

@Old PH2 @majrod @Tango9 @OPR entered bassackwards Nephew still AD says it is quite pro-potus. That was first time I heard of it.

Nephew still AD says it is quite pro-potus. That was first time I heard of it.@Old PH2 @majrod @Tango9 @OPR

 @majrod  @Tango9  @OPR What have you fellows heard of the new networking site for active duty?  It appears to be promoting itself as a means to find links and maximize your potential while in uniform.  It all most sounds to me like an influence trading site.  Maybe I'm off base, only heard of it recently and don't recall it's name.

 @majrod  @Tango9  @OPR Trust me I can go way beyond JIEDDO, but we can use it as an example.  Whether it's political pressure, desire for career after military w prime or hey no one every got fired for buying from IBM - JIEDDO has miserably failed their charter.  The reason is they gave the lion's share of their contracts to big primes with crap technology.

And I don't consider MRAPs as defeating the device...

@Tango9 @majrod @OPR I skipped the ROTC part.

 @dmalert  JIEDDO might be an example.  You'd have to ID specific products to make a case for retired military playing the system to get something useless purchased.

JIEDDO is a better example of what has become an absolutely ridiculous aversion to casualties driving us to make terrible decisions.  The enemy no longer has to worry about seizing objectives or even defeating us in combat.  Cause casualties and eventually we'll cave.  It makes it exceptionally easy for the enemy to win and this will haunt us in the future.  

@Tango9  @OPR

 @majrod  @Tango9  @OPR Well said majrod and it's a realistic and easy career transition.  The problem however is it results in a lot of business getting won that shouldn't be and ironically it's younger soldiers that often pay the price.  Take IEDs - JIEDDO - over $20 billion spent with very little to show for it.  Fucking disgrace.  Then one has politicians routing for the primes as well so it goes far beyond friendly military procurement people looking to transition to civilian life.

 @Tango9  @OPR  Those retired 1-2 stars and O6s weren't working in ROTC jobs when they retired and stepped into big coprorate jobs. 

It's pretty common in the school houses and HQs were the links are established and the golden parachutes folded.

I can tell you just as many stories of E7s and higher I saw leave the school house and walked into contractor jobs making the same or more as they did on active duty.

My point is that EVERYONE does it.  No argument there's an aspect of it that's wrong.  There's also the reality that after serving 20 years in uniform one's options are limited unless you were careful to pursue a field that was easily transferable to the civilian sector.  Short of defense work and starting one's own business there are few options. 

(I had the opportunity to go to work in the defense sector because of an Infantry/computer simulation/acquisition background with experience in robotics, battle command systems and warfighting experience at a comfortable income.  Problem is when they pay you six figures they can call you sun night and put you on a redeye somewhere at the drop of a hat and after 20+ years that dog doesn't hunt anymore.)

I've seen some really crappy low handed moves from uniform to the defense sector employment.  I've seen just as much if not more of good moves for the individual/country/company.  I'm just sensitive to the constant officer bashing that is popular.  It's the same argument as having those that make over 250K "pay "their fair share".

I'm an equal opportunity BS flag thrower.

 @majrod  @OPR Booze Allen, Lockheed, Boeing, etc etc.  Those flag officers didn't even have to pass a test.  They were hired for their connections.  It's horseshit and a slap in the face to every joe schmoe who *thinks* he can get a graduate degree and rise any higher than program manager.

Only way you can jump the caste hurdle is to open your own business.

 @majrod  @OPR shoot, Rod, all the ones I knew went on to command high school ROTC detachments, get fat, and bbq on the weekends as they dreamed of their next fantasy football draft.

Not for me. 

Now, the retired colonels and 1- 2- stars I knew stepped into $150-$200k jobs right out of the gate. 

Big difference.