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Home » SOF News » Green Berets Sign Letter Supporting 2nd Amendment

Green Berets Sign Letter Supporting 2nd Amendment

by Blake Miles · January 29, 2013 · Posted In: SOF News
Green Berets Sign Letter Supporting 2nd Amendment
The following letter was disseminated and signed by over 1,000 current and former Army Special Forces soldiers (Green Berets) in support of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, specifically as a defensive measure against tyranny. The letter was compiled through the joint efforts of current and former Special Forces personnel over at www.ProfessionalSoldiers.com, and quietly disseminated for signatures among secure, vetted circles.

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Protecting the Second Amendment – Why all Americans Should Be Concerned

We are current or former Army Reserve, National Guard, and active duty US Army Special Forces soldiers (Green Berets). We have all taken an oath to “…support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.…” The Constitution of the United States is without a doubt the single greatest document in the history of mankind, codifying the fundamental principle of governmental power and authority being derived from and granted through the consent of the governed. Our Constitution established a system of governance that preserves, protects, and holds sacrosanct the individual rights and primacy of the governed as well as providing for the explicit protection of the governed from governmental tyranny and/or oppression. We have witnessed the insidious and iniquitous effects of tyranny and oppression on people all over the world. We and our forebears have embodied and personified our organizational motto, De Oppresso Liber [To Free the Oppressed], for more than a half century as we have fought, shed blood, and died in the pursuit of freedom for the oppressed.

Like you, we are also loving and caring fathers and grandfathers. Like you, we have been stunned, horrified, and angered by the tragedies of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Fort Hood, and Sandy Hook; and like you, we are searching for solutions to the problem of gun-related crimes in our society. Many of us are educators in our second careers and have a special interest to find a solution to this problem. However, unlike much of the current vox populi reactions to this tragedy, we offer a different perspective.

First, we need to set the record straight on a few things. The current debate is over so-called “assault weapons” and high capacity magazines. The terms “assault weapon” and “assault rifle” are often confused. According to Bruce H. Kobayashi and Joseph E. Olson, writing in the Stanford Law and Policy Review, “Prior to 1989, the term ‘assault weapon’ did not exist in the lexicon of firearms. It is a political term [underline added for emphasis], developed by anti-gun publicists to expand the category of assault rifles.”

The M4A1 carbine is a U.S. military service rifle – it is an assault rifle. The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. The “AR” in its name does not stand for “Assault Rifle” – it is the designation from the first two letters of the manufacturer’s name – ArmaLite Corporation. The AR-15 is designed so that it cosmetically looks like the M4A1 carbine assault rifle, but it is impossible to configure the AR-15 to be a fully automatic assault rifle. It is a single shot semi-automatic rifle that can fire between 45 and 60 rounds per minute depending on the skill of the operator. The M4A1 can fire up to 950 rounds per minute. In 1986, the federal government banned the import or manufacture of new fully automatic firearms for sale to civilians. Therefore, the sale of assault rifles are already banned or heavily restricted!

The second part of the current debate is over “high capacity magazines” capable of holding more than 10 rounds in the magazine. As experts in military weapons of all types, it is our considered opinion that reducing magazine capacity from 30 rounds to 10 rounds will only require an additional 6 -8 seconds to change two empty 10 round magazines with full magazines. Would an increase of 6 –8 seconds make any real difference to the outcome in a mass shooting incident? In our opinion it would not. Outlawing such “high capacity magazines” would, however, outlaw a class of firearms that are “in common use”. As such this would be in contravention to the opinion expressed by the U.S. Supreme Court recent decisions.

Moreover, when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban became law in 1994, manufacturers began retooling to produce firearms and magazines that were compliant. One of those ban-compliant firearms was the Hi-Point 995, which was sold with ten-round magazines. In 1999, five years into the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, the Columbine High School massacre occurred. One of the perpetrators, Eric Harris, was armed with a Hi-Point 995. Undeterred by the ten-round capacity of his magazines, Harris simply brought more of them: thirteen magazines would be found in the massacre’s aftermath. Harris fired 96 rounds before killing himself.

Now that we have those facts straight, in our opinion, it is too easy to conclude that the problem is guns and that the solution to the problem is more and stricter gun control laws. For politicians, it is politically expedient to take that position and pass more gun control laws and then claim to constituents that they have done the right thing in the interest of protecting our children. Who can argue with that? Of course we all want to find a solution. But, is the problem really guns? Would increasing gun regulation solve the problem? Did we outlaw cars to combat drunk driving?

What can we learn from experiences with this issue elsewhere? We cite the experience in Great Britain. Despite the absence of a “gun culture”, Great Britain, with one-fifth the population of the U.S., has experienced mass shootings that are eerily similar to those we have experienced in recent years. In 1987 a lone gunman killed 18 people in Hungerford. What followed was the Firearms Act of 1988 making registration mandatory and banning semi-automatic guns and pump-action shotguns. Despite this ban, on March 13, 1996 a disturbed 43-year old former scout leader, Thomas Hamilton, murdered 16 school children aged five and six and a teacher at a primary school in Dunblane, Scotland. Within a year and a half the Firearms Act was amended to ban all private ownership of hand guns. After both shootings there were amnesty periods resulting in the surrender of thousands of firearms and ammunition. Despite having the toughest gun control laws in the world, gun related crimes increased in 2003 by 35% over the previous year with firearms used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the preceding 12 months. Gun related homicides were up 32% over the same period. Overall, gun related crime had increased 65% since the Dunblane massacre and implementation of the toughest gun control laws in the developed world.

In contrast, in 2009 (5 years after the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired) total firearm related homicides in the U.S. declined by 9% from the 2005 high (Source: “FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Master File, Table 310, Murder Victims – Circumstances and Weapons Used or Cause of Death: 2000-2009”).

Are there unintended consequences to stricter gun control laws and the politically expedient path that we have started down?

In a recent op-ed piece in the San Francisco Chronicle, Brett Joshpe stated that “Gun advocates will be hard-pressed to explain why the average American citizen needs an assault weapon with a high-capacity magazine other than for recreational purposes.”We agree with Kevin D. Williamson (National Review Online, December 28, 2012): “The problem with this argument is that there is no legitimate exception to the Second Amendment right that excludes military-style weapons, because military-style weapons are precisely what the Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear.”

“The purpose of the Second Amendment is to secure our ability to oppose enemies foreign and domestic, a guarantee against disorder and tyranny. Consider the words of Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story”: ‘The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.’

The Second Amendment has been ruled to specifically extend to firearms “in common use” by the military by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v Miller (1939). In Printz v U.S. (1997) Justice Thomas wrote: “In Miller we determined that the Second Amendment did not guarantee a citizen’s right to possess a sawed-off shot gun because that weapon had not been shown to be “ordinary military equipment” that could “could contribute to the common defense”.

A citizen’s right to keep and bear arms for personal defense unconnected with service in a militia has been reaffirmed in the U.S. Supreme Court decision (District of Columbia, et al. v Heller, 2008). The Court Justice Scalia wrote in the majority opinion: “The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.“. Justice Scalia went on to define a militia as “… comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense ….” “The Anti-Federalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.” he explained.

On September 13, 1994, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban went into effect. A Washington Post editorial published two days later was candid about the ban’s real purpose:“[N]o one should have any illusions about what was accomplished [by the ban]. Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime. The provision is mainly symbolic; its virtue will be if it turns out to be, as hoped, a stepping stone to broader gun control.”

In a challenge to the authority of the Federal government to require State and Local Law Enforcement to enforce Federal Law (Printz v United States) the U.S. Supreme Court rendered a decision in 1997. For the majority opinion Justice Scalia wrote: “…. this Court never has sanctioned explicitly a federal command to the States to promulgate and enforce laws and regulations When we were at last confronted squarely with a federal statute that unambiguously required the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program, our decision should have come as no surprise….. It is an essential attribute of the States’ retained sovereignty that they remain independent and autonomous within their proper sphere of authority.”

So why should non-gun owners, a majority of Americans, care about maintaining the 2nd Amendment right for citizens to bear arms of any kind? The answer is “The Battle of Athens, TN”. The Cantrell family

had controlled the economy and politics of McMinn County, Tennessee since the 1930s. Paul Cantrell had been Sheriff from 1936 -1940 and in 1942 was elected to the State Senate. His chief deputy, Paul Mansfield, was subsequently elected to two terms as Sheriff. In 1946 returning WWII veterans put up a popular candidate for Sheriff. On August 1 Sheriff Mansfield and 200 “deputies” stormed the post office polling place to take control of the ballot boxes wounding an objecting observer in the process. The veterans bearing military style weapons, laid siege to the Sheriff’s office demanding return of the ballot boxes for public counting of the votes as prescribed in Tennessee law. After exchange of gun fire and blowing open the locked doors, the veterans secured the ballot boxes thereby protecting the integrity of the election. And this is precisely why all Americans should be concerned about protecting all of our right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment!

Throughout history, disarming the populace has always preceded tyrants’ accession of power. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all disarmed their citizens prior to installing their murderous regimes. At the beginning of our own nation’s revolution, one of the first moves made by the British government was an attempt to disarm our citizens. When our Founding Fathers ensured that the 2nd Amendment was made a part of our Constitution, they were not just wasting ink. They were acting to ensure our present security was never forcibly endangered by tyrants, foreign or domestic.

If there is a staggering legal precedent to protect our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms and if stricter gun control laws are not likely to reduce gun related crime, why are we having this debate? Other than making us and our elected representatives feel better because we think that we are doing something to protect our children, these actions will have no effect and will only provide us with a false sense of security.

So, what do we believe will be effective? First, it is important that we recognize that this is not a gun control problem; it is a complex sociological problem. No single course of action will solve the problem. Therefore, it is our recommendation that a series of diverse steps be undertaken, the implementation of which will require patience and diligence to realize an effect. These are as follows:

1. First and foremost we support our Second Amendment right in that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

2. We support State and Local School Boards in their efforts to establish security protocols in whatever manner and form that they deem necessary and adequate. One of the great strengths of our Republic is that State and Local governments can be creative in solving problems. Things that work can be shared. Our point is that no one knows what will work and there is no one single solution, so let’s allow the State and Local governments with the input of the citizens to make the decisions. Most recently the Cleburne Independent School District will become the first district in North Texas to consider allowing some teachers to carry concealed guns. We do not opine as to the appropriateness of this decision, but we do support their right to make this decision for themselves.

3. We recommend that Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT) laws be passed in every State. AOT is formerly known as Involuntary Outpatient Commitment (IOC) and allows the courts to order certain individuals with mental disorders to comply with treatment while living in the community. In each of the mass shooting incidents the perpetrator was mentally unstable. We also believe that people who have been adjudicated as incompetent should be simultaneously examined to determine whether they should be allowed the right to retain/purchase firearms.

4. We support the return of firearm safety programs to schools along the lines of the successful “Eddie the Eagle” program, which can be taught in schools by Peace Officers or other trained professionals.

5. Recent social psychology research clearly indicates that there is a direct relationship between gratuitously violent movies/video games and desensitization to real violence and increased aggressive behavior particularly in children and young adults (See Nicholas L. Carnagey, et al. 2007. “The effect of video game violence on physiological desensitization to real-life violence” and the references therein. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology 43:489-496). Therefore, we strongly recommend that gratuitous violence in movies and video games be discouraged. War and war-like behavior should not be glorified. Hollywood and video game producers are exploiting something they know nothing about. General Sherman famously said “War is Hell!” Leave war to the Professionals. War is not a game and should not be “sold” as entertainment to our children.

6. We support repeal of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. This may sound counter-intuitive, but it obviously isn’t working. It is our opinion that “Gun-Free Zones” anywhere are too tempting of an environment for the mentally disturbed individual to inflict their brand of horror with little fear of interference. While governmental and non-governmental organizations, businesses, and individuals should be free to implement a Gun-Free Zone if they so choose, they should also assume Tort liability for that decision.

7. We believe that border states should take responsibility for implementation of border control laws to prevent illegal shipments of firearms and drugs. Drugs have been illegal in this country for a long, long time yet the Federal Government manages to seize only an estimated 10% of this contraband at our borders. Given this dismal performance record that is misguided and inept (“Fast and Furious”), we believe that border States will be far more competent at this mission.

8. This is our country, these are our rights. We believe that it is time that we take personal responsibility for our choices and actions rather than abdicate that responsibility to someone else under the illusion that we have done something that will make us all safer. We have a responsibility to stand by our principles and act in accordance with them. Our children are watching and they will follow the example we set.

The undersigned Quiet Professionals hereby humbly stand ever present, ever ready, and ever vigilant.

Read the full post at Professional Soldiers.

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Green Berets Sign Letter Supporting 2nd Amendment

————————————————————————————————————————
What say you, SOFREP readers?

 

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SharonInFL
SharonInFL 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Hi all, I am not a warior, just a girl who dated an Army SF years ago. I respect you guys bunches. I did take one exception to the article, that the magazine limitations were not too big of a deal. With crime on the increase and police protection on the decrease, I think a 30-round magazine is a nice aid against home invasions. My folks are nearly 80 years old. Dad is still a good shooter, but needs all the advantage at hand possible to defend Mom and home. Why take that from citizens? Thanks for all you do, SOFREP.

Tango9
Tango9 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@SharonInFL I had someone ask me why I "needed" a 30 round mag.  I asked him why he needed shoes. 

cavalry 12
cavalry 12 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

this is a very well written no nonsense article that every paper in the US should print and every young person should read

plainolamerican88
plainolamerican88 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

OK guys and gals this is purly darn good. assume the position and check it out then share. Chief out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T-F_zfoDqI&feature=player_embedded

Frosty
Frosty 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Great letter but I felt they should have left entertainment out of it. They are going to have a hard enough time fighting against the politicians they dont want to add video game and movie fans to that list especially when there are studies that list no correlation between violence in video games and violence in people, WHO AREN'T ALREADY MESSED UP. That's the key if you give a crazy person a means to become crazier thats what happens but if you give your average joe a game he plays because its something to do.

Allwet
Allwet 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Oh damn, so what dipshit is hunkered down in the bowels of Ops, rewriting some one's procedures @ 2230 on Saturday night.....? I just went on a "sustainence "run, muhuhaha- junior is fixin to get learned in true brainstorming etiquette: fish tacos and beer!....because he's got a terrible habit of making my teeth grow;)

Allwet
Allwet 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@txazz @ old squid ...that sir, is a load of......shit!

ElbridgeGerrysGhost
ElbridgeGerrysGhost 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

I have posted this in a number of places. This is a slightly edited version. Please fell free to repost it or any part of it where it might help. Thanks Common Sense: On "Gun Control" It is possible for well-meaning, conscientious, individuals to believe that the horrific events at Newtown, Connecticut in some way justify the banning or registration of semi-automatic firearms which bear a resemblance in appearance to military assault rifles (There is no such classification as "assault weapons.") and/or "high capacity" magazines. This is because they are either uninformed, misled or both. Insulting them is extremely unlikely to persuade anyone to change their beliefs and, more often than not, has the exact opposite effect. Here are some facts which you can bring to their awareness that might help, if you can discuss the matter civilly, "to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them." There are three areas in which they are most commonly ill-informed. These are the questions: "What did the authors of the Constitution of the United States of America intend when they enacted the 2nd Amendment?" "Does the existence of any state's National Guard fulfill their definition of a well-regulated militia?" "Would they have written it differently if they had foreseen the advent of semi-automatic and/or fully automatic firearms, not to mention artillery, tanks and combat aircraft? I hope this will prove useful in educating them. Feel free to cut and paste any of it where it might do some good. What did the authors of the Constitution of the United States of America intend when they enacted the 2nd Amendment? The Second Amendment, as adopted, reads:"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." First let's look at the debate leading up to its adoption. The following is a direct quote from The Congressional Register, 17 August 1789 "The house went into a committee of the whole, on the subject of amendments, The 3d clause of the 4th proposition in the report was taken into consideration, being as follows; 'A well regulated militia, COMPOSED OF THE BODY OF THE PEOPLE [emphasis added], being the best security of a free state; the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED [emphasis added], but no person, religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms." One delegate--Elbridge Gerry of Massachussetts--rose to address the house. "Mr-Gerry--This declaration of rights, I take it, IS INTENDED TO SECURE THE PEOPLE AGAINST THE MAL-ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT [emphasis added]; if we could suppose that in all cases the rights of the people would be attended to , the occasion for guards of this kind would be removed." No delegate rose to disagree. All further debate was about persons having religious scruples against bearing arms. "...is intended to secure the people against the mal-administration of the government..." is NOT about the right to hunt. It is about allowing the citizenry to, as POTUS George Washington put it in the first State of the Union Address, "...maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT [emphasis added]." Here's Thomas Jefferson on the subject, "...what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." Does the existence of any state's National Guard fulfill their definition of a well-regulated militia? In the final version it says "A well regulated militia..." What did they understand to be "A well regulated militia...?" The meaning of "militia," both past and present is very clear. As it says in the quote from the Congressional Register. "...being composed of the body of the people..." Here is the current legal meaning of "militia" as defined in 10 United States Code Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, § 311 Militia: composition and classes .(a) The militia of the United States consists of ALL ABLE BODIED MEN AT LEAST 17 YEARS OF AGE and...under 45 YEARS OF AGE WHO ARE, OR WHO HAVE MADE A DECLARATION OF INTENTION TO BECOME [emphasis added], citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) (2) THE UNORGANIZED MILITIA, WHICH CONSISTS OF THE MEMBERS OF THE MILITIA WHO ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL GUARD OR THE NAVAL MILITIA [emphasis added] In what way is this not "...composed of the body of the people..?" Would they have written it differently if they had foreseen the advent of semi-automatic and/or fully automatic firearms, not to mention artillery, tanks and combat aircraft? Here is the full quote from POTUS Washington's first State of the Union Address. "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but THEY SHOULD HAVE SUFFICIENT [emphasis added] arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT [emphasis added]" "Sufficient" means "1a : enough to meet the needs of a situation..." http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sufficient So Washington is saying that the militia should have weapons which are enough "to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT [emphasis added]" The firearms which POTUS Obama and others propose to register fall far short of such sufficiency. Weapons sufficient to resist the government go all the way up to nukes. I don't think anyone wants to keep and bear nukes or F-16s but artillery, particularly anti-aircraft weapons are well within what Washington meant when he used the word "sufficient."Our Second Amendment rights have already been severely infringed. 1: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe Please use this information to, civilly, persuade others that our nation is in grave danger. This is the hour of the Constitution's gravest peril. If our liberties are to be stolen let us require that it not be by stealth but rather by force of arms.

jep1
jep1 5pts

Why should anybody care what limits you want to impose on our right to keep and bear nukes & F-16s. Your opinion is that and nothing more. If we're going to allow anti-aircraft weapons we'll need nukes to help keeps us safe too. 

jep1
jep1 5pts

How do you know what people want to keep and bear? You elected you POTUS? If people want F-16s, anti-aircraft weapons, and nukes then they should be allowed to possess them. Simple logic. 

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

I appreciate your passion Elbridge and your effort on this comment. I look forward to reading more from you on SOFREP.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @ElbridgeGerrysGhost eww.  Wall of text.  No offense there bud but I think most of us are already familiar with the topic.

 

Next time just post the links, if you please.

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

Harsh T9. We need every bit of momentum that we can get and Elbridge may have not been around for all the discussions. I like him and his post.

 

I'm in position to push em out... how many do I have?

 

Hope things are great with you!!!

JMass_M14
JMass_M14 5pts

@plainolamerican88 
Who is the Speaker?  I know that I'm never up-to-date on faces, but his is very familiar...  he speaks with a high degree of intelligence, something unworthy of most politicians.  HeHeHe...

plainolamerican88
plainolamerican88 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad  

 just got this from a Marine friend of mine. Speaking of Marines. It is awesome, please share with all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T-F_zfoDqI&feature=player_embedded

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9  @engelbrad

 I'm a big fan of Tony Chahcere's creole seasoning... put it on eveything but vanilla ice cream

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 Yep. My Dad use to say,"It's hell getting old", and "getting old ain't for kids, that's for damn sure". Now, I'm begining to understand what he meant...

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9

 This is so sad.... nothing else to say.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts

 @engelbrad  @Tango9

 Shit. It's true...  http://sofrep.com/16838/chris-kyle-another-brother-lost/

 

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9Got it.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts

 @engelbrad  @Tango9

 Incoming email to you too. Please check.

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9

 My guess would be that most believe in 2 amend but an organized effort would be hard to predict. MHO. 

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA

 We very much are and everything we have is an effort. Never stop pushing! Ever!!!!

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad

 OK, so back on topic, sort of. Wonder if we will see other SOF vet groups do something similar as the Green Berets.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad We took this thread elsewhere.  But pushing yourself and improving your life is just kinda fun.  Hurts a bit but nothing worth having doesn't.  Even us old folks are still in the game.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad Just do 2 more than you can do.  Then tomorrow, do 2 more than that.  et al infinitum.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad

 I might be able to work up quickly to sets of 40 flutter kicks, but 50 push ups at a time I think will be beyond my capabilities.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad and that's when you roll over into the leaning rest position and push 50... and then you roll back and do 100 more flutter kicks.... rinse, repeat! 

 

Now we're having fun!

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  

 Ohhh... those kind of paddles :)

 @Tango9  We need to work on Brad... go get 'em. I'll watch :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad You'll know you're doing it right when you cant actually sit up from that position and you have to roll over to get up :)

 

It'll feel great. Trust me.

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA

 I do know what they are.... had to do that in high-school football.

If I tried them now I'd need paddles!.... CLEAR!!!!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad just relax your feet.  natural.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad

 Toes pointed or flexed?

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @engelbrad  @Tango9

 So paddles is the term you want to use?? Sorry, can't picture that one :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @LauraKinCA Both hands under your butt:  keep your back flat, chin to chest and act like you're paddling in water with your feet, keep your heels 6" above the ground and when you paddle push your toes up to 18" you'll be fine.

 

And breathe :)  Don't hold your breath.

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA

 Paddles!!!!!

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @Tango9

 Well, T9 isn't asking you to flutter your eyelashes at him :)

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9

 The word "flutter" scares the crap out of me!...lol...

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad hah... yeah just do them 40-50 at a time to start with, maybe 5 times a day.  Your body will tell you.

 

I think AW got a case of what all us men get:  MANLINESS! and tried to knock out like 2000 lol

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad

 Alright, but I ain't goin' cowboy or cowgirl on 'em. Surgery is not supposed to be in my future :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad Flutter kicks are better than sit ups.  AW just went cowboy on us.  Flutter kicks will build your lower abs and your thighs.  Great exercise.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @engelbrad  @Tango9

 Duck and cover is good for your abs :)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad

 Good, I'll motivate you to go walking - I HATE running - and you can motivate me in the push ups and sit ups. After AW, I'm not listening to you about flutter kicks! Just sayin'.

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA

 lmao... Women keep us running all the time so cardio is inherent!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad That's really cool.  Good on you.  You're motivating me now.  I'm a guy so we like push ups we hate cardio, but I've got to unass my chair and fill that gap.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad

 The 7 mi has turned into a regular weekend walk over the last 6 mo to a year. What's nice is that I can now push the pace and feel great at the end.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @LauraKinCA  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost It makes visits to the head that much shorter lol

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

More going out than going in!

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  

 Spices are great!! you don't really need salt with all the good stuff out there.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad 7 miles!  nice!  That's awesome!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @LauraKinCA  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost Hah!  You'd be surprised to know you can make some healthy chilli that will make your eyes bleed.  Like I said  spices and hot stuff makes the difference :)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  

 Talking to all of you around here is a big motivator :)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts

 @engelbrad  @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 So I know you are relocating. Is that perm to fix and keep or will it be fix and turn over to a new manager?

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 Why live?...lol

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost No half measures.  Absolutely. 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  

 Hear dat!! Made a big change myself in Aug. and just starting to do more than my 7 mi walks on the weekend.

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 Not a start up but a take over... I'll classify it as "interesting" right now. I love "fix it" and that is what I have.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost What I have done is totally change diet.  No more cheeseburgers, pizza or (lord help me) sausage and peppers.  I had my fun, ate my double western bacon cheeseburgers and Carls' Jr, but that metabolism just ain't there anymore.

 

I make it up with spices and hot stuff :)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @engelbrad  @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 How's the NC startup going?

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 You know what I love about getting old?... We get smarter and thus:... the finish line quicker!

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 Well, even half that goal is impressive, especially with the wife riding herd on proper form... no wimpy push ups for you buddy! :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost Hah.. yeah I didn't mean to sen AW to the ER.  But he's a big boy :)

 

Remember I'm AF:  Aim High!  or something.

 

In all honestly on that road the first 400 or so aren't bad but after that it starts getting tricky.  Kind of a physical wall, at my age.  I'll figure it out.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 You've mentioned that before, and it still blows my mind that it is your goal. I hope you are spreading that pain out over the day and not trying to kill yourself in one sitting. Lookit what you did to AW when you challenged him on his flutter kicks!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost I do have a goal.  It's madness.  But I want to push 1K a day.

 

It's silly, and I'm old.  But hell, what's life without stupid goals?

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 I think your problem is that she knows you WERE a drill instructor and she is out drill instructing you :)

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 I tell Shanda it's the mattress!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost I thought I was the drill instructor.  My error.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 She's keeping you honest, huh?? :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost wife counts them out.  and oh believe you me if I don't go down far enough it's "1....2.... 3... 4... 1 (WTF?)... 2.... 3..."

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 No shit!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost Gettin old aint for pussies :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost Hah!  CLEAR!

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 Paddles!

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost

 LOL... I'm in NC right now and I have a Marine mechanic in the shop. I guess they break shit a lot because this guy can get stuff "Romeo" in a heartbeat!....

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost push 50 and 100 flutter kicks and I'll do the same, at least that way I won't go to bed feeling completely girly.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @engelbrad  @ElbridgeGerrysGhost Hah... I only knocked out 100 today.  I'm such a wuss. 

 

The freaking Marines are killin me... meaning 20 marine push ups are 80 reps, and my crusty butt still can't get above 60 in one go. 

 

We'll get there!

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @Tango9 I actually knew most of what he said but appreciated him putting it all together in one place.  I cut and pasted it for quoting some other time and some other place.

 

 @ElbridgeGerrysGhost Thanks.  Tango is good people and an ally in this fight.  Welcome to SOFREP.  I made a big splash also when I first arrived.  I'm pretty sure Tango was trying to be helpful vs. derogatory and he is a mod here.  The rest you'll figure out for yourself. 

 

ElbridgeGerrysGhost
ElbridgeGerrysGhost 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9 You lay facts out your way, I'll lay them out mine.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @ElbridgeGerrysGhost I'm not trying to be a jerk, though I often unintentionally achieve that objective.

 

My intent and message was that if your post is longer than the original article, people's eyes tend to glaze over.

 

Sometimes I forget that perhaps many people that read this site haven't seen the constitution or understand what the framers intended.  

 

This is a pretty solid group of warriors that visit, contribute and post here, so I will every now and then fall into the trap of assuming we're all of like mind.  Educated, well versed in warfare and history tends to describe this community.

 

I'm with you in spirit.. just asking you break it up into bite sized pieces for us not very smart folks.

 

I'm guilty of being around this internet thing since Gopher and Archie.  It's always been kind of a no go to post a giant wall of text.  So that was where I came from.  I'm a nerd, it's not fixable.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @ElbridgeGerrysGhost  @Tango9   The difference is that Tango9 is a MODERATOR for the site, so he's laying out standards for the site, and did it rather politely I thought (unlike your response).

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