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Home » Op-Ed » The Inconvenient Truth About Women and Combat (Part 1)

The Inconvenient Truth About Women and Combat (Part 1)

by Jack Murphy · February 8, 2013 · Posted In: Op-Ed
The Inconvenient Truth About Women and Combat
The new debate about women in combat positions is an argument that few seem to be able to think clearly about.  This post will contain some harsh language.  Consider it a part of the selection process  if you are a woman.  If you can’t handle it then you might want to look at another career field because we say a lot worse about each other.

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Whenever this topic comes up I hear the same statement from what seems like the vast majority of Americans.  It goes something like this, “Hold them to the same standard and if they can hack it then let them do the job.”  Intellectually I can look at this subject from an abstract standpoint and agree.  Why not let job positions be delegated to soldiers based on their ability to meet the qualifications rather than their gender?  This is probably the correct way to think about this subject, have one high standard which all must meet.

However, I did the job and there are some practical issues that we need to overcome.  Here is one of the ugly ones: the Army just doesn’t have a lot of integrity when it comes to maintaining standards.  They are often lowered for political reasons as commanders are expected to fill quotas or more understandably, units get understrength and need to be plused up on warm bodies.  This is the wrong way to go about the problem because letting sub-standard personnel in causes huge problems down the line ranging from degraded operational capabilities to unit morale.  Special Operations units are no exception to these internal politics I’m afraid.

But that isn’t fair to female soldiers, right?  The problem isn’t women in combat but rather that the institution of the Army needs to get their house in order and stand by their own core values, namely, upholding high standards of combat readiness.  I would agree with that argument as well and would be willing to work with anyone, man or woman, on this issue however I can.  I feel strongly about this and have written about it previously.

The fact of the matter is, standards will be lowered, not just a little but a lot.  There will be tremendous political pressure on commanders to get women in Infantry and Special Operations units, to show positive statistics about women in this new positions, and to demonstrate “success stories” about female soldiers to Congress and to the media.  Standards will plummet along with combat capabilities and unit morale.  Non-official quotas will be mandated.

The ‘ol Strawman argument

However, I think there are a few strawmen arguments that get made on both sides of the debate about women in combat positions.  I’d like to take a moment to discard a few of them.

One of these arguments is that the vagina requires more hours of Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services (PMCS) than a V22-Osprey or F22 Raptor.  So this argument goes that the second a female soldier leaves the wire she will instantly come down with a massive yeast infection and have to be medivacced back to the FOB for treatment when the patrol is halfway to their objective.  This shit just gets silly after a while.  While I’m no expert on the female reproductive systems (which baffles me) it seems that the vagina needs no more maintenance than an uncircumcised dick.  Can we finally toss this antiquated argument out and move on?

Here is another straw man that I see used by both sides for different purposes.  It goes like this: women are not intelligent enough to do the job and are intellectually inferior to men.  This is really fucking dumb.  Who thinks this kind of shit in this day and age I don’t know.  Likewise, I see people who support the idea of women in combat try to conflate arguments to try to make this an issue of female intellect.  It is not.  It is about what the female body can realistically do when loaded down with combat equipment in war.

Another favorite…  First it was the blacks, then it was the gays, now it is women.  No.  No, actually it isn’t.  This has nothing to do with race or sexual orientation but rather the physiology of the female gender and whether or not they can meet the standards required in the Infantry and SOF.  Please stop trying to mix other controversial issues in order to make your case.  Lets move on.

Women should be allowed in combat!  They can do the job!

Here, carry this 50 pound rucksack down this road for 12 miles.

Well, not me but I know women who can do it!

Ever notice how women making these arguments always defer when put on the spot?  It is never them who can meet the standards but rather some other idealized woman?  Please stop doing this.  Shit or get off the pot.  I see 18 year old 90-pound girls at college who think it is a great idea to put women in the front lines.  Ante up is what I say.  You’ve got no idea.

Other countries have women in combat positions!

Well, not really.  Everyone likes to cite Israel but their experiment with women in the Infantry is considered a failure.  Furthermore, we are the US of A.  We have the best military in the world.  No offense to Israel or any of our other allies but we don’t need to try to replicate conscription Armies around the world.

But a lot of Infantrymen suck!  Have you seen how many fat bodies there are?!?!

Yes, I’m afraid I have.  However, this does nothing to bolster the argument for having women serve in the Infantry.  Rather, it speaks to my above argument that standards need to be enforced, especially for the men in our Infantry units.

You are putting the Infantry and Special Operations up on the pedestal!

Yes, I am.  That is where they belong.  No, I could give a fuck less if you don’t like that.

Coming in part two, a big dose of motherfucking reality.

 

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Minou_Demimonde
Minou_Demimonde 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

There will be women who can do the job, just not very many of them. But then there aren't very many men who can do the job, to be frank. You guys know full well that you are a part of a rather elite group of people. Or if you don't, you should. And frankly, I worry about the readiness of all of our troops, men and women alike. But specifically, about the special forces and the special operatives groups. We need to hold them to the highest standards. Unfortunately, we have become a society where everybody is special, and nobody fails, and that will kills us. Political correctness will destroy us as a nation. And that saddens me a lot.

 

I have a child who wants to join the Army after college. She's one of the few who could probably handle the infantry--6'0, exceptionally strong, like slender steel, dead lifts 175, her Krav Maga teacher says she's pretty dangerous, and you should see her shoot--but she doesn't want to be in a place where any standards would have to be brought down in order to allow her in, and worries about that. So instead, she's chosen to look towards flying helicopters, and being there for the infantry when they need her. That way she gets to play with the pretty pretty guns and fly the prettyful machines too. (Her words, not mine.)

 

I just wish she'd choose the Navy. Sorry, Jack, but the Army just isn't in our blood. We run Navy blue all the way.

 

There are places in the military where women will make huge contributions. And as for putting them into combat, I'm sorry, but they already have. But we must be careful to ensure that we don't weaken our military for the sake of political correctness. And I fear that they will.

 

But I do wonder, @TheCrusader, do you think that all women are good for is having babies? Cause, as a software engineer and a mother them's fightin' words. And, as a historian, you're wrong. Women have always gone to war. And some of them have become incredible warriors. Cutting off your hair, binding your breasts, and grabbing your sword has always been something that women have done. Doesn't mean I think it's a good practice...

Maiingankwe
Maiingankwe 5pts

Minou,

You have written an excellent post, well done. I think it is a sound idea for your daughter to fly helicopters. It sounds to me she has put some thought into this, and I commend her for not wanting standards to be lowered. Unbeknownst to a lot of men, there are a lot of us who feel this way, and for good reason.

TheCrusader
TheCrusader 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Since time immemorial, men have been warriors, and women have born children.Some things are truly self evident, and this is one of them: Women DO NOT belong in infantry units, in SF or in the RGR RGT.   I am truly glad I decided to retire from the Army when I did. I could see this crap coming even five years ago.  What a joke.  

sahaldelta
sahaldelta 5pts

Hey Jack this part got me thinking?

Furthermore, we are the US of A.  We have the best military in the world.  No offense to Israel or any of our other allies but we don’t need to try to replicate conscription Armies around the world. 

 

How do you feel about conscript militaries such as Israel and SK? Have you worked with them? What was your opinion as to how they train and how well they perform? How do they compare to our and other Professional militaries? thanks.

RedWanderer
RedWanderer 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Don't remember where I saw it, Stormy, but Happy Birthday!  Hope you have a great one.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @RedWanderer OT:  Thank you, Red.  This is my Facebook post from this morning.  I'm sharing it, because my sentiments about my SOFREP friends are the same as my sentiments about my FB friends. So, thank you, Brandon & Jack for SOFREP, which challenges and sustains me, and thank you SOFREP Mafia for being a part of my life. 

 

"So, I woke up this morning and I was 63 instead of 62. It's kind of a blah, in-between number, but a bit more visually interesting. And is my way, I've been reflecting on the past year and what it all means...in other words, I've been fretting and fussing as usual when a birthday rolls around. Having a birthday on Valentine's Day is a bit of a cruel joke, although it does make me a cheaper lady friend to have. Here's the thing, though, it has taught me about real love. Not the obligatory candy & card kind of love, but love or care or affection or respect that is genuinely expressed. I'm so feeling the love right now, ya all. All of my friends on Facebook are those that I have a connection to - even if they are strangers. They are people I know in real life or strangers I respect from afar - but they are all very real to me. And this morning I woke with a sore hip, silently cursing the toll of 63 years on both mind and body, went through the morning routine with unappreciative cat (whose a damn bed hog), turned on my computer and was absolutely AWASH in messages of affection, love and respect from real-life folks who blessedly a part of my life - even if they are strangers. Jeremy, my son left me an early morning Happy Birthday phone message that told me he listens to my dumb stories. Lisa, my daughter(in-law) sent me a Hippie Birthday message. Fed-Ex delivered a bouquet of flowers from the amazing Amanda who keeps me on track at work, PJ gave me EXACTLY the perfect birthday present - a flannel, quilted shirt to replace the one that should have seen the rag bag 10 years ago, and a Mocha to warm my cockles. It's not even noon yet and I'm wallowing in the love. So my reflection of 63 years is simple - I'm glad to be me, ups/downs, trials/triumphs, dumb, with an occasional flash of brilliance. It's my Birthday and I'm feeling the love and there is NO GREATER GIFT than that."

RedWanderer
RedWanderer 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @StormR You ARE an amazing writer, Stormy.  And I think Jack SHOULD let you help him edit when he's in a hurry.  (That was a birthday plug for ya, lol.)

 

Love reading your stuff.  Even when I completely disagree I still love reading your stuff.  I can tell M-rod does too....did you see his little "like" under TK's birthday wishes.  He's actually a softee, like most tough guys are (which you and I both know but will pretend we don't, right? lol)

 

Enjoy the remainder of your BD!

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @StormR   Happy Birthday Storm.  I wish you nothing but the best today and for your upcoming retirement!!  TW

susanholly
susanholly 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Tango9,  You're sentiments  are music to my ears - someone who places a high value on personal integrity and actually living by the values we spout.  That's a rarity in this culture.   There still are some of us who live by a code of honor - we're much fewer than in days gone by, but from my observation many do gravitate to the military, which seems one of the few institutions where character still matters.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @susanholly Thank you for the kind words, but it's nothing more than what my parents taught me at age 4.

 

I understand what you're saying.  Unfortunately, personal integrity, responsibility, accountability and moral courage are rare.  BUT... you'll find some absolutely great people if you know what to look for.  It's not confined to the military (incoming statistical analysis!  Cover!).  There are plenty of folks that wear a uniform that I wouldn't trust with an anvil:  they'd fuck it up. 

 

Likewise I know a good number of folks who never served who keep their head high and keep their eyes fixed on the horizon.

 

I'll give you this:  I teach physics, I'm a physicist, I did a gig for some years as an engineer, and I worked with some great minds.  Know who the most brilliant person.... I mean SCARY smart... guy I ever met was?  Some clown that came to class high smelling like someone poured the bong water on him.  He'd just show up about 25% of the time, dazed, and get an "A."  IQ of probably 180.  Pure genius. You meet someone that smart, in your life, one time, if that.  It's so rare it's scary.  He could look at Hilbert spaces and absorb the context and underlying principles in seconds.  Took me years.

 

And he's pumping gas someplace now.

 

The point of that story?  He has no moral compass.  He'll probably die homeless under a bridge. 

 

I'll take 1 motivated underachiever, wide-eyed, thirsting for knowledge over 1 unmotivated genius every.  Goddam. Time.  It's about value of effort.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod The Distinguished Warfare Medal??? Higher then the Bronze Star??? Whats the story, it does not require the recipient to risk his life to get it????

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  You know after sleeping on this I'm feaking incensed.  Youu know this but for those a little less familiar with the nuances of medal order of precedence...

 

So a PJ, JTAC (choose your favorite ground pounder) physically engages the enemy risking life and limb and recieves a Bronze Star w/V but is trumped by the guy back in the states flying a drone that kills some bad guys maybe at a critical point in the op but still, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

 

Great move Panetta and great move drone operators and the service you work for (most operators are USAf but every service has them). 

 

BOGUS!

 

It's actually true that some people think xBox somehow equates to blood sweat and tears.

 

JHR
JHR 5pts

 @ArcticWarrior  @majrod Ok, I think we should ask for a thread on The Drone Operators. I am not sure too much is Open Source. I witnessed a few things way back when- and although my fighter pilots make fun of them and berate them- my opinion is that there are some serious teams in place, with serios equipment and seriosly intense projects. Its no easy video game. Just my opinion, no comment on the medal. I would just like to hear from some drone opertors. Not sure how much is open source.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @majrod the hell is a distinguished warfare medal?  Sorry first post I saw, just got back from class.

 

Is that like the super achievement above all odds medal?

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  I think there's a line from the Dirty Dozen that's appropriate...

 

Forward to 2:49

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJJHSsLhE24

 

 

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @ArcticWarrior I was going to post a video of Honchie's "Retard Riot" but it's not anywhere on the easily accessible net.

 

"set the retards free, they're no different from you and me.  Keep them away from electricity, chainsaws, scissors and gasoline...

 

all they ever wanted to be was free."

 

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod  @ArcticWarrior And here's the next CMSAF.  We were rookie TI's together, he housed my narrow ass during my divorce (all MTI's are divorced... should be a medal for that), one of my best friends.  I can still outgolf his arkansas ass...  but the point is  those ribbons cost a damn FORTUNE, especially the slim ones....  I give him shit about it all the time:Can't tell you his callsign.  but he's been that bald since we were both E-4s :)  Point is:  medals don't mean shit.  If he called me and said "need you.  Now."  I'd drop everything, get in my truck and I'd be there.

 

http://www.luke.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=15824

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @ArcticWarrior I knew a MoH awardee who was a complete fucking asshole alcoholic douchebag.  I've known folks with nothing but an AFCM that I'd want to my right if things went pear shaped.

 

It's all relative.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  Please don't.  It's true (they wrote an article) and too painful to read.

 

Don't stress too much though.  A Legion of Merit is ranked above a Bronze Star.  They never impressed me.

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @ArcticWarrior want me to dig up the article I read a few months ago about drone pilots with PTSD?  No shit.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @ArcticWarrior I....

 

Was going to say....

 

I'm fucking speechless....

 

If my eyes rolled any more I'd need surgery. 

 

Sweet, Low Crawling Jesus Harold Christ.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  Drone pilots?  Because you know stress is a five letter word. 

 

 

 

(what sense does that make?  exactly my point)

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  I thought you were joking.

 

http://soldiersystems.net/2013/02/13/the-distinguished-warfare-medal-the-times-they-are-changin/

 

(FACEPALM)

 

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @ArcticWarrior  What???

 

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod Friend in the AF texted me asking me if I saw the new "Gamer" medal above Bronze Star. Apparently its true. I guess a branch COM medal with device isnt good enough.

JHR
JHR 5pts

 @Tango9  @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod

 9, I know a retired guy. I'll ask him if he wants to sell his Victor. It would be a good fit for you based on what you've said. On the hoss, its no secret I take in between 2-20 horses per year to heal. They all recycle non-gratus to "special ranches". I'll keep you in mind. You pay shipping, the hoss is yours:-) All are high valued, sound minded horses that need to go into kess stressful environments. I'll send you pics of some past lovlies to the greytimes if u want. It makes our ranch happy to pass these awesome creatures along. I dig the happy letters folks send and cherish the good matches. O&O J

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR  HAPPY BIRTHDAY STORM!!! Thank You for Your Wisdom. Thank You for your Civility. Thank you For sharing Your Honor, Ethics and Morality With us. I am a Better Woman For having Heard Your Words.

 

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod

 I got an "Arab Horse" Story for you. That one, I'll save for in person and LOTS of tequila.

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod

 9, I gave my TV to a Bum on Venice Beach over 25 years ago. I learned young- "If you Don't Watch IT - You won't CATCH IT"...that TV MSM Virus I mean.

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, StormR!!!!

hey - silliness every now and then is a GOOD thing - keeps us young - at heart anyway....

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod   And hugs and mush back and ditto back, T.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod There's only a couple of things I've really learned in 63 years.  One is the difference between knowledge and wisdom.  Knowledge is like a squirrel gathering nuts and then burying them all over my yard and flower pots.  Wisdom is remembering where they are buried, digging them up and eating them.  It's not enough to have - you have to do something with it.   The other thing I've learned is to never think I know it all - or even enough of it....there is still wonders to be seen and fleeting moments that should be cherished.   If I had to explain my life, I would say:  I lived it fully, if not always wisely.   I a tired squirrel, T ..and off to bed for me.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod well happy birthday, girl!

 

Just grin.

 

I love you.  Don't doubt that.  Look forward.  I'm only 45 but I've learned that much:  back doesn't matter, it's what you do TODAY.  Your wisdom that is 63 years in the making is invaluable.  So look forward and share that, and have fun.  As I age, I see friend and family dropping like flies.  You know what I'm talking about.  You just outlive everyone.  Is what it is.  


Don't ever let that slow you down.  They wouldn't want that... would you want to put that on those that love you?  Of course not.


The breath of spring is close.  The sun rise every morning and the crisp air of a waning winter make you take that deep breath.  Soon the meadowlarks will arrive.  I had a dove pair on the porch this morning looking at the bird feeder they'd visited last year like "....the hell?  this thing is supposed to be full!"  I filled it up, they'll be back  tomorrow.

 

Have fun.  Rock it.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @Tango9  @majrod AW, he's my favorite guy lol.   I love it when he goes 'OF COURSE, it was ancient aliens" and sits back with a big satisfied grin like he's just solved world peace.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod   T, tomorrow morning when I wake up, I will be 63 years old.   Part of me thinks:  how the hell did that happen so fast?  The other part of me thinks:  I've lived just too damn long.  But I'll keep putting one foot in front of the other, even though I'm looking back more than I'm looking forward.  It's harder to take anything very seriously, and it's harder yet find things to laugh at.   And yet, I still keep asking questions and i still get silly.   This has absolutely no point, and that's kind of the point.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @Tango9  @majrod That Ancient Aliens guy with the crazy hair and spray tan is awesome

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod I do need a new saddle.  and a good cutting horse.  Bonnie was the best cutting horse I ever rode, but she didn't like me much, we never did get to the "best friend" thing.  I need a good horse.  An Arab.  I always got along better with arabs.  better than quarterhorses.  Guess that's just cowboy shit....

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod I keep up on the news in my own way.  I will not fund the drivel that is reality shows and shopping channels and idiot news networks.

 

I know how to find news through my internet connection.  And if that fails.  Well, My grandfather ran a 12K acre ranch without an internet, and he taught me how to fix fences and how to shoot.  I'm not concerned.

 

I will not fund stupid.  Period.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod  I watch cable TV because of the SyFy channel, the Food Network and occasionally History & Discovery channels.  My guilty pleasures are Ghost Hunters,  Ancient Aliens and the Big Foot Hunters. I occasionally watch Ghost Adventures because I like to hear Zak shriek like a little girl when he thinks he finds what he's looking for and he's locked in with it.  I read my newspaper every morning, but don't watch the news, or news programs...I'm not fond of sound bites and 20 second-stories and pontificating.  The real world is serious business and I need a break from time to time from it.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts

 @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod Oh, I noticed about 10 years ago.

 

There's a reason I don't have a cable or directv sub.  It's bad.

 

It's really bad.  It's gotten so bad that it's reached the point of "no one talks about fight club."

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @ArcticWarrior  @majrod "What planet are we on?  Again?  Because I think I've been taken captive by aliens and forced into some alternate reality where bullshit reigns and common sense isn't common."  I think I'm a little worried that you just noticed...

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @majrod What planet are we on?  Again?  Because I think I've been taken captive by aliens and forced into some alternate reality where bullshit reigns and common sense isn't common.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @majrod So a "gamer" medal is superior to a BSV?

 

I'm too old to run around the house naked, screaming, so I'll just sit here.  Not amused.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @majrod "Gamer" medal.  You owe me 1.3 oz of sexy hot cider with the cinnamon stick and everything.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@ArcticWarrior @majrod ROFL !! Welcome to the New Army AW, ya dumb fuckin Grunt...6

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

OT:  SOFREP summer meet up.

 

I have 6 people committed to the broadmoor Jun 15-16.  10 rooms is required for the group rate.  I can't press unless I get 10.

 

If I commit, I have to drop a $500 deposit and sign a contract for 10.  so if 10 don't show, I'm on the hook for those rooms.

So e-mail me or Laura (me:  admin@greyttimes.com)

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HeidiVestre "Toothless Cousins"? Really? Your insults being hurled are not that of an AF Veteran, not up to the standards I hold my friends in so high regard of that re both Active and Retired. Some being family. A few, in the room with me right now. Your comments towards Majrod were disgusting and your language to Storm was intolerable. Both can take care of themselves, however; I consider Storm a rock of wisdom, fairness and civility on this forum. You Heidi, have crossed a line of respect.

HeidiVestre
HeidiVestre 5pts

 @JHR Oh lighten up..   I'll have to re-read the exchange but, I was insulted first.  Just returning incoming fire.  Sorry, you are all so sensitive.   

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @HeidiVestre Lighten up? What is this, a silly Bud Light commercial to you? Hurling insults at my friends and urinating disrespect on respectful warriors then calling you on it, is not being sensitive.

 

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Recon6  6, I LOVE YOU! You B Right.....J

 

HeidiVestre
HeidiVestre 5pts

 @Recon6  @JHR  @HeidiVestre That's right, shhhhh......    I'm just a retired AF person...   shhhhh......     I shouldn't even be here......  I'll leave you all to your fest.

HeidiVestre
HeidiVestre 5pts

 @JHR Seriously?  You went on a rant about bucking hay...  bucking hay and stacking hay like pumpkins, and then went wild eyed about your extensive knowledge on the exact ways and means of thumping the rabbit, as tho there were some terminology clues you needed.  I thought you were on a fun trippin' rant, I even said so..  then I come back to  nasty-land..  Are just bound and determined to be a jerk?

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

@JHR @HeidiVestre Damn J, how Long are you guys gonna fuck around with this dip shit?? This b.s. has been going on for days, she doesn't know shit and y'all keep trying, come on....6

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