Exclusive: SOF Trains Spec Ops in Mali

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen Forgotten - sadly true.

 @lecoug  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen LOL - people on this forum are far too educated/worldly to join that group of spoiled misanthropes.

 @LauraKinCA  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen Read it thx

 @dmalert  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen Agreed, I do believe this was one of the better moments in human/western history and the founders did learn these values very well, in as much as, Luther understood that people were responsible for their own actions, a big leap at the time. And something that people these days seemed to have forgotten!

 @dmalert  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen

 DM - OT, but the first part of Coriolanus's MX article was just posted.

 @dmalert  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen Founders knew it, European Monarchies learned it, power to the people.  Have we all just joined the Occupy Movement...?

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen Hence the need for shared power/checks and balance - the Founders understood it pretty well.

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @dmalert  @wannabearmyteenYes. Without the reformation there would be little foundation for a republican form of government-- or the decay of the monarchies. Pretty interesting how a single thread can unravel a whole cord. :)  

 @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @wannabearmyteen Oh, that is pretty much an undisputable fact, Luther took all the power away from the 'church' and gave it back to the people. A precept for the founding of our country, in my opinion.

 @hjw1dr  @wannabearmyteen Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely...

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  The Enlightenment, sure. But it was the reformation that really made a lot of changes. The individual became the center of the religious experience... not the priest. Luther began the process of decentralizing the church from faith. And I think that is what lead to the idea of the enlightenment. 

@dmalert  @wannabearmyteen  

 @hjw1dr  @dmalert  @wannabearmyteen Agreed, but as history will tell us, this is something that as 'western' people grew out of, as we found the ideal of liberty more important.

It's funny too, that the age of enlightenment helped to propel these ideals, an era that Christians resisted, actually enabled Christianity to grow and prosper. A mutually win-win for all.

 @dmalert  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen Sure... just pointing out the similarities between how religion was used in the middle ages for control, and how it can be used now by certain sects.  (Just an observation)

 @hjw1dr  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen Well people can also be controlled via nationalism, PC and other.  Religion is but one tool in the box.

 @hjw1dr  @lecoug  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen I should rephrase that - not the only - the most recent.

 @hjw1dr  @lecoug  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen I find it telling the only comparable equivalent to them is found in the dark ages.

 @hjw1dr  @lecoug  @wannabearmyteen LOL, it is funny as hell isn't it! Guess I am the perp on that one :)

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  And I can imagine right now, people are wondering how the hell did we get to Jesus on a topic centered on Maii and SpecOps?  LOL

I love these threads! :)

@lecoug  @wannabearmyteen  

 @hjw1dr  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @lecoug  @wannabearmyteen Anything with a large number of adherents is bound to be twisted by the unscrupulous - unfortunately.  The real problem fear, the source of most negative emotions, is so well manipulated and used by those desirous of power.  Begs the question as a species - can we lessen fear?

 @hjw1dr  @lecoug  @wannabearmyteen Oh I agree wholeheartedly. People, as faulted as we are, have a tendency to distort and exploit anything that will help them gain in their own life, ironically, a principle that is diametrically opposed to what Jesus taught!

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  LOL... Well, history sometimes is a beotch... :)  II think Jesus Christ was pretty cool!  :)  Just don't like how some people over history have distorted what he said. :) 

@lecoug  @wannabearmyteen  

 @hjw1dr  @lecoug  @wannabearmyteen I said, "most of the time" dang it! lol

 @lecoug  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen Well said.  Real fix is stable commerce, but this isn't easy and certainly doesn't fit into election cycles.  Add to this we can't fix the whole world.

 @lecoug  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen  Well, Catholicism did the same thing in the middle ages. It told the poor to accept poverty, work for the wealthy feudal lords,  work for the church, and you place will be found in the afterlife. If you didn't you ended up in hell, burning for eternity. 

The power structure depends on people belief in it to survive. 

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @wannabearmyteen LOL.  Mea culpa.  One can also argue a lot of the continuing consensus for GWOT and the wars was these Muslims are going to get you Christians.

 @dmalert  @wannabearmyteen I did say 'most' of the time damn it!

 @dmalert  @blkreggren  @wannabearmyteen 

It's part of the equation, I'd guess, especially for the fodder — not the abject poverty of the countryside, but the economic paralysis of the partially-educated who have expectations that outstrip accomplishments and means.

For such young men, the immediate crisis is the inability to get married. And it really is pretty awful for them — guys having to wait till they're in their early thirties, and not a lot of other socially-acceptable outlets. It's just getting worse, too.

For the ideologues, I've always thought Sayyid Qutb sounds more like Lenin than Muhammad.

I suspect we're dealing with a combination of things: a pervasive sense of unjust failure, some sincere religious fervor ... but all mixed up with remnant ideologies of the Cold War — socialist utopianism, Soviet anti-American propaganda, third-worldism. There are also leftovers from WWII, I think. It's easy to forget just how much the Nazis spent trying to win the hearts and minds of the Arabs.

Blood and soil, jihad, Great Satan, Little Satan, believers of the world unite — it's all pretty incoherent.

 @alimhaider  @blkreggren  @wannabearmyteen How much of this is driven by poverty?  Because if one were in Istanbul I don't think one would get the impression that Islam is violent.

 @dmalert  @blkreggren  @wannabearmyteen 

Religious texts mean whatever religious people say they mean. They may not be infinitely malleable, but they're close. Walter Miller's A Canticle for Leibowitz shows how this works.

Nation of Islam argues the Qur'an teaches that a wicked black scientist named Yacuub created white folk 6,000 years ago on the island of Patmos. Other sects of Islam say the Qur'an teaches that the five visible planets have souls and are alive; yet others say it teaches that there's an army of aborted fetuses living in American sewers and that they're one day gonna take over (really).

In the case of Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism — well, Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism don't exist. You can't say, Greek Orthodox are closer to the archetypal Christianity than Assemblies of God. Or, you can, but if you do, you're making a theological claim.

Nothing wrong with theology is you're a theologian. But it seems a little silly when those who aren't part of some religion think they can do theology for those who are part of some religion.

I mean, what if a Saudi mufti were to weigh in on whether 1st Baptist of Dallas were more Christian than 2nd Baptist? Or if the Saudi embassy were to throw 60 or 80 million dollars at that question, and a few ships full of AKs?

Now, today, it's just a fact that some Muslims think jihadists are the best Muslims, while others think 'em the worst. Yet other Muslims are debating whether nation states are a good thing or a bad thing. Still others are arguing whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to cut the clitoris off little girls.

If Muslims can't agree among themselves who a good Muslim is or what real Islam is, I can't think how non-Muslims can do that for 'em.

I'm not even sure non-Muslims would want to do so. Might be better for the world if Muslims were to spend all their energies writing endlessly-long books on arcane points law and dogma. I suspect it'd at least be quieter for the world.

At any rate, asking whether Islam is violent or not violent is like asking whether Canada is nice or mean.

 @blkreggren  @wannabearmyteen BL A lot of history is embedded in religious text that often is mistranslated or twisted.  My understanding is the Koran indicates Muslims should engage in combat when being attacked.

This is not a tacit endorsement of violence nor does it mean that Muslims should traipse about the globe attacking non believers anymore than Biblical references to slave ownership is a tacit endorsement for Christians to own slaves.

Early Muslims like early Christians took it on the chin so one needs to not literally read historical references and apply them today.

This said I'm not a Muslim or an Islamic scholar so perhaps I am wrong.  I know a great many Muslims and they certainly to not subscribe to such behavior rather it has been twisted by those seeking power.

 @RedWanderer merci cher!

 @RedWanderer makes it damn hard to follow along, especially in a lively comment session!

Btw, dm, I was referring to your tribal post.  (I keep expecting livefyre to indent.....)

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE Sounds cool.  Catch up with you later.

 @dmalert I agree as well. But we can't wait for a leader, we must lead ourselves and lead others to believe that we are the ones that have the power, we are the solution, not the Fed.

Didn't think you thought that about religion, just saying in general as that is one of the wedges that has been driven between us.

Got to go to bed now, have work tomorrow, but I look forward to continuing this conversation and I will be looking for like minded people to contribute, if you might be interested.

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE BTW let me know when the site is up.  Would like to look at it.

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE Agreed wholeheartedly.  I'm out of the e pluribus unum school of thought and believe it's our differences that have made our society so strong and vibrant.

And you're right the pols and media have divided us and it's up to us all to come together.  We prevailed in WW2 and came out of the depression because we were united as one on a common cause.  When the pain gets to be too much we will do so again.  The right leadership will only show up when the pain increases - not too far off now.

Not only is it a road we must take, but the only one we can.

People have lost touch with the founding principals of our republic that allowed so many to come here for a better way of life.  Again real pain will wake them up.  And I'm not against religion at all nor do I think it a blight. 

 @dmalert I know this is nerdy as hell, but I will quote Yoda here: "Fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger, anger leads to suffering."

But to the question at hand... as you can see from the latest politics, fear is a great tool that is used against the weak. And, ironically, the people were made weak by fear. It's a terrible dichotomy that has risen in due part to our own (meaning the American people), complacency that we have been lulled into over the past few years.

In these days, I don't believe that it is religion that has been the blight as of late, but the lost history of our times. Meaning that most Americans have lost sight of the principles of the founding of our country.  And even though we are moving into a new era, as you point out, I believe that our founding ideals should be the focus of our endeavors in the future, instead of religion. Not that religion should not play a role, but that should be in our hearts, guiding us towards our future.

It will be a hard row to hoe, but I believe, as an American, that we can do this. I am in the process of creating a website that is dedicated to focusing our what we, as Americans, have in common, versus focusing on our differences, which is the power on which our politicians thrive. Divide and conquer has started to succeed in our great nation and we must put and end to it, but that will take a dialogue with those which we disagree.

We can make that shift, but it will take all of us, on both sides, to come together and at least start the conversation... a bumpy road indeed, but if we have any hope to ave our country, it's a road we must take.

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE AUP agreed, but a little pain tends to wake people up.  I'll throw something out here that I have believed for a while and would be curious to get your opinion.  I think what comes to us over history is appropriate given our level of the time.

For the past few thousand years religion has been fear based and given where we were perhaps necessary, but maybe not.  But one learns little under fear rather it's more akin to Pavlov's dog reacting.  It is via understanding that one really learns - not fear.  And I think early Christianity was just this before Constantine got his hands on it.

This said I think we are entering a new era where we will have to act out of understanding rather than fear because to stay with the fear paradigm is to perish.  Remaining on the fear model given our population levels, connectedness and level of tech simply will result in regression to a less civilized state at best.

Heady and pivotal times ahead.  Can we make the shift?  I think so, but it's gonna be bumpy.

 @dmalert Indeed, it's a personal feeling I have held for a long time, but in the age of "what have you done for me lately", it's going to be a long road to hoe.

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE No you can't legislate morality.  People need to come to it one person at a time via understanding rather than fear.