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I think above anything else, the morale and integrity of your guys units should be taken into consideration before any operation is green lighted. Whether its hunting donnerr or some other op doing whatever. When the stuff comes out the other end of the tube it leaves to much to speculation and all kinds of weird rabbit hole thinking. You guys can say it doesn't bother you but I know it does. i guess what imI'm saying is you guys are the last people I want to see fucked over because of some misinterpretation of info. Whatever was going on with donner we will never really know and really we ain't supposed to. As far as you guys, don't tell me about it. Get it done and when you get back I got a hot shower, some warm clothes, a soft bed and if you want a choice of women that will treat you right. Just saying fellas for the job we ask of you, we can't turn around and then judge you on how you got it done. Appreciate you to the fullest
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Classic barricade operation with Dorner. Surround and call out. Its getting dark, cold weather put in some CS. CS is usually deployed as a pyrotechnic and starts the house afire. Set houses on fire during training and during ops using CS and smoke grenades. Shit happens
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I did some searching and came across these two videos on Youtube. The first one is an audio recording from a police scanner of the alleged "Burn Him Out" incident. The second video is supposedly the final shootout with Christopher Dorner. I'm not saying any of this is hard evidence but I figured you guys would be interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCdqybEfy9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Rs4tUJt5Ya4
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Maybe when they are talking about burn the house down ...that is some sort of slang for just throwing the tear gas or smoke grenades ...does anyone know if this is possible ?
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Did the cops intend to burn Dorner out? What do you think and why?
Quotes or a transcirpt would help along with what the cops are saying so an objective rational decison can be made as to one's position on the issue.
Loons and tin foil hatters not invited. Please exercise your 5th Amendment right by starting a new thread
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Honestly doesn't bother me if it was an accident or intentional, given the circumstances. Chris "Crispy" Dorner could have surrendered at any time. Instead he decided to kill a San Bernadino sheriff, and pulled a David Koresh.
Sucks to be you, big boy.
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@majrod I'm really torn on this one as I can easily see both scenarios. They are officers of the law, but they also live by 'service and protect'. I can see a 'smoke him out' plan gone bad, or a 'we're not taking a risk that one more officer gets killed or injured'. There's a difference between a bad guy and a mad dog, and he fell well within the mad dog category.
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I don't support Dorner in any way but I do support the Constitution and due process ....and I do not support the media that really had to hype this story as some crazy vet as gone crazy , the way they kept showing Dorner with guns in every picture and in his military fatigues...I just don't think that was right.
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You know you can find out the truth yourself it is very easy to search for the Police audio picked up by the local news station if you just search it ...
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@PatrioticCitizen Not sure if ONE emotional cop on the radio clearly proves there was an intent to "burn him out". Open and interested in discussion...
Quotes or a transcirpt would help along with what the cops are saying so an objective rational decison can be made to one's position on the issue.
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@majrod I don't know either Maj ...its just this was caught by a local news station KCAL 9 they were not supposed to even be there if you go to youtube , put in Chris Dorner fire it is the middle of the page just look for BURN THAT #%#%#% HOUSE DOWN ...its right there the actual police audio the station caught on tape ...It just makes you question is all I am saying ....really wasn't too cool when they shot up the civilians truck and injured those women out throwing papers ...that just showed the LAPD are very poorly trained in dealing with certain situations in my opinion.
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@PatrioticCitizen http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/maids-surprised-suspect-in-cabin-were-tied-up-then-called-cops-.html
Fish & Wildlife
San Bernardino County Sheriff
There are reports that LAPD SWAT was flown in to conduct an assault after Dorner was cornered. It's not clear if they arrived before CS grenades were employed or conducted the assault (knocking down walls). It's also doubtful that the voices on the radio are LAPD.
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@majrod interesting who did they say took him down I haven't read yet on that ...any info interested in that .
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@PatrioticCitizen True on the LAPD shooting up the female paper carriers.
Dorner was not taken down by LAPD as i understand it.
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i still think its bullshit that cops get an upper hand in ROE's engage a "suspect"(totally dont even fit descriptions) when they feel threatened.....when over here in asscracistan we have to get shot at "first" (sometimes, but i mean cmon its COMBAT, not the oh so dangerous streets of los angeles......i mean did u see the car? lookd like a rpk tore that shit up.
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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
-thats the 2 newspaper delievery trucks
Heres the other vehicle link: white guy was going surfing in his truck when tpd responded to the lapd shooting in the same ao..
-i live in the area. the torrance pd crashed into the other truck and opened fire. i think they crashed into the other truck on purpose so that they could justify a reason 2 open fire. then
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More evidence of celebrating Dorner.
CNN Panel: Dorner's Alleged Murder Spree 'Exciting,' Like 'Denzel Washington Movie'
You can't make this stuff up!
@majrod It is extremely discouraging that there are people who think like that. Did you happen to read some of the comments directed at retired SEAL Chris Gomez (@FrogSupply)? It was enough to make me ill when I read them.
@majrod Just making a wise-crack about how people lauding Dorner should be "added to the list". That's all Major.
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@TKW406 Hmmm. Not sure what you are saying. The use of drones is fine. The policy paper explaining how they justify the program is a travesty.
@majrod Found myself re-thinking my position on the current drone policy after listening to those people. Water boarding would be fine.....
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Headline! "Incendiary" tear gas reportedly used on cabin.
LMAO!!! Another attempt to portray the police as meanies!
FWIW, smoke grenades are designed with holes in the top and bottom that are covered in tape. When the fuse is pulled and the grenade is tossed the fuze burns inside burning the chemicals inside that create smoke which also burns the tape off as the smoke exits the holes.
I've seen tear gas and HC smoke (white) grenades which are the densest smoke actually have flame erupt 3-6" out of the holes. The gernade "can" itself will get too hot to hold after about 30 seconds (you'll leave flesh on the can if you grab it barehanded). If this is sitting on a rug or near curtains you're going to have a fire.
Just an FYI to SOFREP readers as you sift through the BS from reporters that don't know how to pull the pin on a smoke grenade. (Yes, it's as simple as it sounds)
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You talkin' about the same people that can't figure out mag vs. clip? Those media type people?
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Most detailed story so far that I've read describing the takedown.
Says they used a demolition vehicle to take down the cabin walls and as they got to the last wall they heard a shot.
Chris Dorner was a disgrace to both uniforms he wore. If you side with him you did not read far enough into his manifesto not did you read his court procedeings. He was a narcissist a liar a baby and a coward. The audacity to categorize his death as a extrajudicial killing is asinine. Based on the fact that he already killed numerous people and was engaged Ina active fire fight with law enforcement justifies delivering smoke into the cabin. I doubt it was CS as most 40 mm CS and OC won't start a fire. At least the oc/cs we use won't. Smoke onthe other hand is a deadly force option on our use of force sop. When a suspect has caused or imminently threatens to cause death of great bodily harm to your self or another person and has barricaded them selves in a building with out hostages then we will smoke him out and let the building burn to the ground.
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The extrajudicial killing of another US citizen via arson no less? It's obvious the police where scared shitless of this fellow. So much so that they allowed him to barricade himself then set the cabin on fire? I understand that Reddit has a transcript of the radio traffic for the last 40 minutes of the stand off.
We need to remember that during all of this another officer was killed, that greatly effects what happens to a suspect, especially when barricaded and posing a serious threat. My question is, was the fire the result of the CS grenades or was it actually intentional? Reddit's transcription seems to point to the latter:
Just a thought, lapd showed no fire discipline twice!! A million dollar bounty? Even Timothy McVeigh got a trial. Who was this guy, and why was lapd so quick to eliminate this guy? Just asking
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They still have not found a body ...so we will just have to wait and see on this one
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lardass shoul have done some more pt....then maybe he could have navigated faster through snow....
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@stickyicky41 i give the guy props for lasting that long with a full on manhunt against him with every LEO in the country. and finally making the lapd show their shitbagness. a qrf of reg. army legs would have found him quicker i bet lmao
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Good, he ziltched himself out and burned down the cabin around him. The authorities flushed him by stating they were pulling back from Big Bear and retasking towards Mexico. He took that bait. That guy didn't go to SERE school. He had lots of advantages and didn't know he had any of them or how to exploit them.
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Sounds like it's over.
We'll find this guy was all bluster when it came to his extensive military experience and all the jargon (e.g. assymetric warfare ISR etc.)
I was surprised that he went and stayed up there.
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@majrod I figured him for bluster when I read his manifesto. If I was going to do those things, I wouldn't tell you my offensive plan.
@SEAN SPOONTS @majrod The shout-out! section of his manifesto was ridiculous. Who writes a suicide note and gives props to Ellen DeGeneres? Charlie Sheen? It makes no sense. Anthony Boudrain is a true renessance man who is, "too cool for school" How does anyone come up with this stuff while running for their life?
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@SEAN SPOONTS exposing your plan dumb. Getting publicity, putting your advesary off balance, taking the offense in the info wars not a bad idea...
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Sadly he took at least one Deputy out with him and injured at least another. I heard the audio of the one firefight and there was a decent amount of shots fired by both sides.
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@majrod Yeah, he's done. And what a shame that this douche might blemish the rep of the real men and women of the military. Obviously, 'if' he was trained, he sucked at it.
Side note: I think the snow fucked his plan up, that's the only reason I can figure.
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@AUNITEDPEOPLE "Side note: I think the snow fucked his plan up, that's the only reason I can figure."
No this guy was amatuer hour. He may have been able to shoot but that's it. No caches, boobytraps (think mechanical ambush here), bombs on target's cars, fake papers, multiple cars (he could have ditched that Toyota truck and got a few throwaways), no media plan with secure drops to stir the pot. IEDs.
That's off the top of my head. I'd say more but the bad guys don't need help.
@AUNITEDPEOPLE @majrod @hjw1dr This guy was a flight wash-out and a General Unrestricted Line Officer reservist. He was not a trained shooter from the Navy. He was not a Specwar operator and for being a LT he had almost no medals or devices. I wonder where he was since '08? Just to be clear he wasn't a commando he was a GURL. I celebrate his lame-ass service but keep it real. An admin officer isn't very dangerous normally
@DieHardDeuce "Umm... do you usually have a group around? " *Snort*, I'm not sure you would believe me if I told you :) But until 8 years ago, the answer would have been yes, I always had a group around whether I wanted them to be around or not, Now a-days, not often :)
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@DieHardDeuce LMAO....Yup, Diehard, that's exactly how I want people to react when they see me coming :)
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@Tango9 @DieHardDeuce T, that's exactly what I would have done if I lost my iPhone, and probably asked for a cup of coffee and a tour while I was there :)
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@StormR @DieHardDeuce I lost my iPhone 4 a month ago. I figured: There's those nice men in that facility in Utah. I'll just walk up to the door, knock, and ask them to GPS it for me.
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@DieHardDeuce "The guys with the giant computers that listen to all of our phone calls and read our texts and e-mails to see if we're bad guys." Well, thank gawd for them...I lost a phone number I need and maybe they can track it on down for me. I not a bad guy...I a bad girl :)
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@DieHardDeuce CRAP!!!
Going to shop for new computers and more waterproof containers for caches! I'll be back later...
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@majrod @AUNITEDPEOPLE Yeah, I've read story after story about this 1-man show conducting ASW. He was a dumbass. Let him burn.
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@StormR National Security Agency. The guys with the giant computers that listen to all of our phone calls and read our texts and e-mails to see if we're bad guys. I'm sure I've been flagged enough to be called out on a first name basis, LOL.They also have badassess like that guy Sam Fisher from Third/Fourth Echelon! ;-)
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@majrod @AUNITEDPEOPLE Small flashes like a empty zippo! <sputter... sputter> LOL
You know... you ARE funny...! Must be the dry humor...I seem to get it.
I must be tired..."A Flaming truck"...(just gave me this random thought: DADT)
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@hjw1dr Thanks, I have small flashes of brilliance (think of trying to get an empty zippo lit)
I just think what I would do if I was the bad guy. Flaming that truck with weapons was dumb. Think about it. Should take you 10 seconds to figure out what to do with a truck you know the cops are looking for and eventually going to search and sends a message, keep your distance...
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I think he was egotistical and believed his own press. I wouldn't be surprised if he had cable and was watching all the talking heads.
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@majrod Oh I do agree, I was just working off the basis of the fact that he thought he knew what he was doing, not that he actually did.
Of course, if he was a highly trained operator, then there would have been all kinds of contingency plans and tactics, and no forewarning or manifesto on Facebook. Hell, I'm untrained and I think I could have done a better job. But to the trained professional, like @hjw1dr said, I'm glad you all are the good guys!
Sorry, I have to stop, I am watching the state of the union and POTUS just said he was dedicated to protecting our ambassadors and foreign interests overseas and I just threw up in my mouth.
And now he's on gun control...
But, point taken @majrod Thanks.
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@ArcticWarrior The media did their bit. LAPD doesn't win any prizes. I won't be surprised to learn they created this monster.
The man himself though thought he was badder than he was.
"A man's got to know his limitations." - Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force
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@majrod @AUNITEDPEOPLE Wow, Majrod. Planning is your forte!
<wipes forehead with cloth> Whew! am I thankful that you're on our side. :)
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Major I see Sicarios with zero education with throw away prepaid phones, alt rides, halcones with supplies pre posistioned for them, moving through harsh terrain succesfully evading capture. This guy was mostly upped up by the media
