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US SOCOM Commander McRaven’s Response & Our Perspective

by · February 8, 2012 · Posted In: Op-Ed
US SOCOM Commander McRaven's Response & Our Perspective
I had a chance to visit with my old CO (Commanding Officer) during a recent event in DC this Tuesday.  The usual media suspects were there, clamoring for a quote that is surely going to end up written out of context.

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Admiral McRaven

When I went up to shake his hand after his talk, I let him know that it was me, “Webb”, from SEAL TEAM 3. He shook my hand the way men do (with a firm grip and a straight look in the eye) and said, “of course I remember you Brandon, how have you been?”  Then he grabbed my face and rubbed the scruff of my beard and proceeded to give me a hard time for my non reg beard!  I wouldn’t expect anything less from one of the finest SEAL officers the community has produced; He is SOF after all, and we love giving each other a hard time.

The old General (Vaught) who lambasted McRaven recently is right to speak up. It’s what SOF operators do – we intelligently challenge one another and share ideas and sometimes disagree violently.  From my perspective, both men are right. However, McRaven seems more of a realist in the age of Twitter, Facebook and Digg (to name a few) and the General seems less connected in that way. We are living in the age of lightning fast communication and it’s in the open for all to see.  I can’t help but agree that there’s been an abundance of hype about Navy SEALs lately, but what can you do? It’s the same Internet age that fueled “wiki leaks” and the Arab Spring.

For those of us that know better, we realize that the dark ops that happen are still very much under the wraps.  The US Special Operations community (and let’s not forget AFSOC and TF-160 among others) has never been more effective and more deadly.  The future of Warfare is Special Operations, and it makes sense that SOF would draw attention. I just hope they make another Green Beret movie soon.  Or what about AFSOC? I wouldn’t be alive today were it not for a Combat Controller or two.  After all, we are all cut from the same SOF cloth.

Brandon

(Featured Image Courtesy: dvids)

About The Author

Brandon Webb is a former U.S. Navy SEAL with combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, and elsewhere in the Middle East. His last tour in the SEAL Teams was as the Course Manager for the US Navy SEAL Sniper program, arguably one of the most difficult sniper courses in the world. He was formerly a contributing editor for Military.com, and currently the Editor-in-Chief of SOFREP.com. Brandon is regularly featured in the media as a subject matter expert on military affairs. An avid writer, his last two books (The Red Circle, & Benghazi: The Definitive Report) both hit the New York Times best seller list, and his writing has been featured in print, and digital media worldwide. You can follow him on Twitter @BrandontWebb
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MasterChief Eric
MasterChief Eric

"Great thing to say in front of the world media. Now he said a damn thing about it. Thanks for making sure the world knows Delta got Saddam."

Dude, there's a couple of books written about this. This ain't news.

I'm with General Vaught.

tim
tim

Dude, it was sarcasm. If the General would of left it at "Get out of the media"...then cool, but to REMIND Admiral McRaven that "his" operators did it right. I found it funny. my bad.

Maybe Delta can be subject of the Act of Valor Prequel.

I'm with both the General and the Admiral.

RyanGraham
RyanGraham

Has is occurred to you that Admiral McRaven is probably with General Vaught too? It wasn't DoD that released any operational information. It was the White House. But Admiral McRaven isn't going to pull a McChrystal in front of a bunch of reporters. He has to support the decisions of his Commander in Chief.

LCpl X
LCpl X

@RyanGraham

I think the Hammer Vaught was more pissed about all the "Act of Valor" commercials he saw during Superbowl. I think he had a right to be pissed, JSOC was his after all and to see commercials on TV during Superbowl, I'm sure he was pissed!!!

You guys want to see a great movie that embodies sacrifices, watch "Taking Chance", no guns, explosions, no BS, just a good story everybody can appreciate.

Tedddy
Tedddy

After Act of Valor, Hollywood should follow up with a family focused movie. Many people have left something out there, I personally don't think making another Rambo type movie will help anyone. Another politicized movie won't sell, people tend to boycott them. But George Clooney's "the Decendant" sold, a simple family movie, I think people are ready to watch a coming home story about our veterans, we don't have to see guns, explosions, etc.

Kevin
Kevin

"Act of Valor" will definitely make a lot of money, since it's election year, and I'm sure FOX, people with "All I have to know about Islam, I learned on 9/11" signs on their trucks and other goof balls will pay to watch this movie one, twice, three times.

And I'm sure, Hollywood has a great family story just sitting on the shelf, but they are going to have to use real actors to make this movie good and not SEALs. Film executives don't really know what sells or doesn't, but they know if it goes boom! people will watch it here and overseas, so they'll do boom! movies easily, but have to be convinced to do movies with substance.

tim
tim

Thanks, General Vaught,

To quote him,

'Back when my special operators(nice way to take credit) extracted Saddam [Hussein] from the hole, we didn’t say one damn word about it.

'We turned him over to the local commander and told him to claim that his forces dug him out of the hole, and he did so. And we just faded away and kept our mouth shut."

Great thing to say in front of the world media. Now he said a damn thing about it. Thanks for making sure the world knows Delta got Saddam. Thanks even more for showing how humble he is. What was that about the whole pseudo-zealous quiet professional thing?? I respect that he had a part in the foundation of his Unit and JSOC,...so why the Hell didn't he stay out of the media?

'Now I’m going to tell you: one of these days, if you keep publishing how you do this, the other guy’s going to be there ready for you, and you’re going to fly in and he’s going to shoot down every damn helicopter and kill every one of your SEALs."

How out of touch is he? On a dead serious note, Where was the respect for all the guys that died a few months later out trying to save his Army guys...I'm sure the incident wasn't caused by McRaven publishing play-books and Act of Valor trailers.

McRaven's response was classic. He joked that he became a Navy SEAL because his sister was dating a special forces member and because he was infatuated with John Wayne’s movie, 'The Green Beret'.

Crappy SF movies...no way... the image of John Rambo taking down the Hind with a compound bow and at the same time finding the only trustworthy Afghan warlord in the universe... changed my life.

Thanks to all you haters and trolls..., put your controllers down and take a class on how to read a book.

On a serious note, I have seen Act of Valor twice at special pre-screening events. It is representative of all warriors going down range. To all of you... from the lowest soldier, marine, sailor, and airman to the darkest Tier 1. Thanks.

Indemnity
Indemnity

Hollywood will always love handsome guys with big guns.

But common sense says that if a Hollywood producer tells you

you have a "look" and you belong in films... BS meters should go off.

The SEALs could have easily said, thanks but no thanks, we get enough

snatch in the UAE and Manila.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName 1 Like

In the UAE? I thought they kicked out all the Russian hookers after some prince got the hiv from one of 'em.

Tango9
Tango9 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I think that there's a point at which we need to understand warfare (now THERE'S a lead-in!) Look, no one goes to war and wins without the support of joe-on-the-street-never-wore-a-unform. Never in recorded history. The people, and especially in the US of FknA, need a few things: they need heroes. they need to know we're winning. They need to know their tax dollars are being well spent. So there's this little thing called information/propoganda/cheering for your team, whatever you want to call it. How many movies were made during WWII? Why? Did it help? yer damn right it did. I'm armpit deep in movies over the last 8 years that paint our military as the bad guy, and I'm sick of it. So hate act of valor, hate the seals, hate the getting the message out, but do understand that you HAVE to do it. It might be enough for you to remember your lost (yes, I've lost friends, too) in a bar with 3 buddies, and saying "fk the world, they don't know or deserve to know!" But at the end of they day, if you can communicate to them what you, we, they go through every day, the sacrifices, the lost marriages all that s&^t, you'll do more good than harm. Big picture, gentlemen, big picture.

Now that that can of worms is open, I'll go bury my P3 and open up COMNAVSERVTRACOMI 3541.1, dig a foxhole and await incoming.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Bite your tongue Brandon! The last thing the Green Berets need is Hollywood making crappy movies about us!!! I think we're content to let the SEALs have that "honor".

Tango9
Tango9

@JackMurphyRGR Ok, BHD was delta and rangers... but do you really want me to go to IMDB and line up all the crappy green beret movies?

Houston
Houston

@Tango9@JackMurphyRGR

Actually there were several SEAL snipers there, possibly from DEVGRU if my memory serves. Check out Howard Wasdin

Tedddy
Tedddy

@JackMurphyRGR@RyanGraham

Dude, Triple 555 is one of the most popular ODAs there is. They are in every Af-Pak books and I think some Iraq groups.

SF should order Triple Nickle to do a Hollywood movie to go up against Act of Valor, title it Triple Nickle, but instead of having them do ops and all kinds of high speed lo drag crap, have them visit all the Nat'l Parks with their families, go camping, hiking, swimming.

Counter all this gun porn, with some family adventure movie.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator

@RyanGraham That's true, ST6 was there and so was Special Forcess, Triple Nickle: ODA 555 if memory serves.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator

Houston, what is this in reference to?

Houston
Houston

@Tango9@JackMurphyRGR

Actually there were several SEAL snipers there, possibly from DEVGRU if my memory serves. Check out Howard Wasdin

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator

@Tango9 That was exactly my point...we don't want (or need) anymore. If Hollywood would like to focus on SEALs instead, I say let 'em have at it.

Tango9
Tango9

@JackMurphyRGR No I get your point. The whole mission of army sf is to make sure no one ever knows they were there to begin with.But you might be surprised to find that the public actually does care about the gritty, boring details. About endless days spent on your own in the middle of nowhereastan doing nothing but staying hydrated and keeping eyes on some spot that some intel weenie in an air conditioned trailer thinks might be important. Or trying to convince some 80 year old guy wearing a man dress who's about as far removed on the evolutionary chain as cheese that his village would be better off if he'd just stop fkng lying to you. Yeah, I know, and you know what? people will listen to that, and they will care, and THEN they will understand but if you don't tell the story you don't give them the chance.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

My books are historical fiction (although it's recent history in the 70's and 80's) and para-military fiction about mercenaries in a modern setting. They have very little to do with SOF or the GWOT other than many of the characters being veterans. You are right that some of my own experiences make it in there in a fictionalized manner. I agree that in this day and age that SOF has to have some kind of public interface but I think that SEALs are now catching some flak because of the self aggrandizing coming from the Pentagon and the Obama Administration. We haven't heard from a single ST6 operator, just some very questionable news articles that cite confidential sources.

The public doesn't get SOF for a number of reasons. One of them is because of the media and the type of missions that look good on camera. You can even look at my own work under this lens. Write about Navy SEALs shooting people in the face and people love it. Write about SF conducting more subtle training and influencing operations and people could care less about this. The public expects SOF to be a reflection of what they see in movies and video games, anything else and they find it disappointing. I hope I can do my part to educate those with an interest in Army Special Operations but I don't think I will make much head way unless there is an honest interest in the truth over the glitter of Hollywood.

Time will tell I suppose!

Tango9
Tango9

@JackMurphyRGR But at the same time, Jack, you tell the stories (albeit under the cover of fiction, and that's just fine) too. The unsung hero is just that: unsung, as in there isn't some bard playing a lute singing of your trials and tribulations, and I get the romanticism of it. But.... what if that story (or an unclassified version of it) does get told? I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, you do exactly that. And we need more of that, not less. FFS, I was never a trigger puller, I trained some folks and supported some other folks... and some (yes, some, not all) of those people gave everything they had to the mission, and telling that story in an effective way to the American public is what we do not currently have... The general public just doesn't get us, and who's fault is that? Well, that's another discussion entirely, But let's not lose the chance to change that.

LT Reems
LT Reems

Personally, I think this is what happened:

Gen. "Hammer" Vaught was watching the Super Bowl, drinking his 12 pack, he's enjoying the game, getting a nice buzz, when he saw the commercial for "Act of Valor". Pissed off, he threw the rest of his beer into the TV and made calls. He found out McRaven was gonna be doing a talk in DC, so he got one of his former LTs to get him a seat. The rest is history.

Lesson: Don't piss off the guy who practically created JSOC while he's watching the Super Bowl, with crap like 'Act of Valor'.

SITREP87
SITREP87 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

The Hunt for Red October. Tom Clancy (before he had access to any ship or boat) wrote a technically accurate text based on documentation that existed in the public domain. He did that in the late 70’s and early 80’s back in the days of “hard copy” research. Data is always there, and it will always be there. Thousands of operators and support personnel have rotated through the community since the 1980’s and they have been stunningly responsible in retaining control of the “key” informational bits that could compromise team mates and current or future operations. A few missed steps, yep. If, after years of 16-hours days, broken bones, lost comrades, crushed relationships, and giving the central part of their lives in the protection a populace that will never understand the extent of their personal sacrifice, they want to write a memoir, publish a fitness book or run for public office- good form them. They earned it!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator

@SITREP87 I had a Counter-Intelligence guy tell me that Clancy gathered a lot of the intel used in that book just by sitting in bars around Norfolk and listening to what joes were talking about. I know first hand that if you hang around bars and shops outside Ft. Bragg that you will here people running their mouths about all sorts of stuff and some of it is even accurate...

IKE
IKE like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JackMurphyRGR@SITREP87

WHO NEEDS A BAR WHEN YOU HAVE SITES LIKE THIS AND SPEC. OPS FORUMS.

SEAN SPOONTS
SEAN SPOONTS like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@JackMurphyRGR @SITREP87 Well, I was in the Navy when HFRO came out and I was actually hunting Soviet subs. So I got asked about that movie alot. There were huge reality holes in that movie(like the fact that Soviet missile boats NEVER went to sea without an attack boat in close escort) but it didn't harm the entertainment value of the film any. It was and still is fun to watch. Those of us actually doing that kind of work didn't heap scorn on Clancy for the implausibles in that movie( like Typhoon class subs going anywhere but under the polar ice caps) The thing that Clancy did get right was the portrayal of sailors at sea. The dedication, the professionalism, the patriotism of service men and women was well done. If you were a 14 year old watching that movie and wanted to serve in the Navy with people like those portrayed in the film you would not be dissappointed when you joined up. I don't mind some innaccuracy in military films when it comes to tactics and weapons as long as military people are not portrayed as lunatics, criminals or blood soaked monsters operating with the implicit nod from a lunatic, criminal and blood soaked chain of command.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator

@SITREP87 Defintely, also look at who Clancy's first publisher was... Some of that stuff was a controlled "leak" in my opinion.

Grigor
Grigor

@JackMurphyRGR@SITREP87 They gave him a TS/SCI so they could control what he writes, but it wasn't just sub propulsion. John Clark was spot on, too spot on. Wonder why?

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName 1 Like

@SITREP87 Clancy was writing about Top-Secret Submarine propulsion systems that were under development. Not sure what the comparison is...

RyanGraham1
RyanGraham1 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

One thing that nobody is mentioning here, and maybe should be, is the distinction between black and white SOF. Most people don't know that the vast majority of SEAL units, like the Ranger regiment, SF, and Recon Marines, are white SOF. Thus, while their specific missions may be classified, the fact that they are SOF troopers is NOT classified. They are free to be publicly proud of their (significant) accomplishment. Cultures may differ between units, but the bottom line is that nobody is breaking regs.

It would be totally different if (black SOF) operators from Delta/DevGru/Activity (or whatever these units are called these days) were posting their status on Facebook. They're not. They'd be out on their ear in a second if they did.Thus, I think you have to trust former SOF troops to know what they're doing regarding the potential for revealing too much tactically (including this site's contributors). They are the subject matter experts, and they know a hell of a lot better than we do about what needs to stay under wraps, and what doesn't.

One last thing to remember is that this is an election cycle. When you're a Democratic president, it is definitely a good idea (for re-election purposes) to publicize how willing you are to 'let slip the dogs of war.' And if you're going to publicize, why not publicize the exploits of the unit with the most brand recognition? Thus, while I agree that SEALs have a more publicity-friendly culture, I don't believe for a second that it was SEALs who leaked mission details. Especially since the missions in question were run by black SOF SEAL units. That would be an instant career-ender, and these gents tend to be pretty smart regarding self-preservation.

SEAN SPOONTS
SEAN SPOONTS

@RyanGraham1 I agree. I recall the White House saying that the SEALs were sent on a "kill mission" on the Bin Laden raid and thought; "What? We don't send SEALs on 'kill missions' we send JDAMs." But a JDAM would have atomized all the intel that was the real value of the raid. Bin Laden's last moments being spent looking at angry Americans with guns was a bonus to getting into Al Qaeda's head office and scooping up computers and files. That's why the SEALs were there. And there may have been a very mission specific purpose for letting the world know we did have that intel. Even Al Qaeda would have the good sense to cancel operations they thought were compromised when Bin Laden was killed. To move leaders whos locations were now known, to cease communications until the nework could be secured again. It must have been a huge disruption to Al Qaeda.

Mariam
Mariam

@RyanGraham1

Brandon hinted that the new Switchblades were used for the S. Philippine bombing. That didn't have to be brought up. Just my 2 cents.

RyanGraham1
RyanGraham1

Mariam - There's a world of difference between speculating about a (possible) op, about which you have zero insider information, and leaking classified mission data. I don't see any harm at all in making Phillipino insurrectionists wonder if American SOF is out to get them. That's good deterrence. If Brandon had said, "Guess what guys, I heard from a buddy in CAG that they used the new Switchblades to blow up some Tangos and then covered it up. Cool, huh?" Well, that would be completely unacceptable.

The site administrators are going to need to do some speculating about (possible and confirmed) SOF missions if they're going to keep this site commercially viable with reasonable web hit numbers. Note, I said speculating, not leaking. Biiggg difference.

Riceball
Riceball

@Tango9@RyanGraham1 I think that some people are just overly sensitive about OPSEC and think that just about everything is a violation of OPSEC no matter how public/harmles/mundane the info may be. For instance, I never understood the uproar about what gun was used to kill Bin Laden, who cares, it's neither that important nor is it OPSEC. So what if the SEALs used an H&K 516, how's that OPSEC, it's not like it's anything special in the sense that knowing it was used can somehow give the bad guys some sort of advantage unless there's some sort of special body armor out there that's specifically designed to stop the rounds fired out of the H&K 516.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Tango9@RyanGraham1 Regarding the PI Op, that information came to me from Filipino civilians who quickly put two and two together. I was pointed towards open source news articles and agreed with their conclusions. Nothing was "leaked" to me by anyone. Cases like this remind me of the "secret bombing of Laos" during the Vietnam War. Who is it really secret from? The people of Laos, who know damn well they are getting bombed, or is it actually being kept secret from the American people?

Tango9
Tango9

@RyanGraham1 I'm pretty sure the "bad guys" aren't going to be spending opium dollars on "Defending Against Teh Ebil Switchblade of Doom"

RyanGraham1
RyanGraham1 like.author.displayName 1 Like

Grigor - You're trying to say that SOF troops, and/or American interests will somehow suffer due to websites like this (or Act of Valor, etc.). To that I say, please provide evidence that bad guys (I'm being intentionally vague) have ever used such media to hurt either SOF troops or American interests.

Tango9
Tango9 like.author.displayName 1 Like

@RyanGraham1 Grigor, I appreciate your passion, but you might want to step back for a minute. No OPSEC/PERSEC violations on this site. Relax a little and maybe try to comm what you want to say and not come across so abrasive.

Grigor
Grigor

@RyanGraham1 Switchblades and other capabilities need NOT be mention period. Fuck making money for this site, Terminal Lance is making money and getting book deals and he didn't have to talk about anything, just jokes. There's other ways to make a buck than speculating as a SEAL or SOF. Sell some health smoothies or custom made overland rigs, just stop blabbing your mouth about ops.

Grigor
Grigor

@RyanGraham1

So which is it, Barry Obama leaking all this for re-election OR

SEALs leaking for self-promotion knowing the tides of war are receding and

funding will to.

Reminds me of the McChrystal/Rollingstone article, if you ask me

the Pope wanted out and best way to flip the bird to the prez was to

have Rollingstone write an f-you piece.

Obama's not leaking anything, the SEALs just love the spotlight.

Grigor
Grigor

@Tango9@RyanGraham1 Obama as president had to announce, bin Laden was dead, the SEALs didn't have to make a movie with themselves starring in it. That's the diff, Tango9!

Tango9
Tango9

@RyanGraham1 And accusing SEALS of self-promoting is going to put you on the crap end of a stick you don't want to be on. Not only is that the dumbest *$&^ I've seen posted yet, but it's so wrong that I have to think you're butt-hurt over something to even go there.

Tango9
Tango9

@RyanGraham1 Really? Grigor? Since the first thing Obama did was saunter up to the podium 3 hours later to take credit? You might want to go back and have a peek at who said what and when before you speak.