@Corps Hornet Driver  @Old PH2 He is sorely missed...

 @Old PH2 Thanks!  A lot of good info and news here.  Did not know about this blog existed until after reading Brandon's book.

I've been a blog reader without a blog since Neptunus Lex (Captain Carroll LeFon, USN, Ret)  perished in an aircraft accident up at Fallon in March.  Lex had been one of my students way back when at VT-7.

@Corps Hornet Driver

Damn Shame.  Seems to be repeated over and over, remember the F-100 and the control oscillation?  The F-104 was a serious widow maker.  I seem to recall that the Harrier took a toll.  The cost of Military aviation is more than monetary.  I've always been proud of the little bit I contributed.  

By the way, welcome to SOFREP.

I hope you enjoy this site as much as I do, lots of great information.

 @Old PH2 Yep...3 good pilots were killed the first year or so with the Hornet because the engineers said "it" wouldn't, couldn't happen. 

My favorite story is the "Goose" switch or more commonly known as the Spin Recovery Switch in the early production blocks.  My Ops O, Goose, while a TP at Pax River, told the engineers that the Hornet could get into a low yaw rate spin;  which the flight control computers would not recognize and thus not driving controls to a recovery position.  Engineers said his research was flawed and inconsequential.  Goose plans the test flight and how he will recover from the low yaw rate spin;  gets approved by head of flight test.  Goose flies the mission, and sure enough, get the Hornet into a low yaw rate spin and the computers fail to recognize such.  Well, unfortunately Goose's recovery plan didn't work.  So Goose rockets out of the slowly spinning Hornet somewhere below 10,000' and the Hornet splashes into the Bay.  After a major pow wow, engineers lament, "well I guess we missed the data on the low yaw rate spin"  No shit Sherlock!  So McDonald Douglas installs the "Goose" switch on the airplane to drive the flight controls into a configuration to facilitate recovery from a low yaw rate spin once identified by the pilot.

Sadly, a few months later, a USMC pilot was killed off Dana Point because the engineers said the INS would never have an insidious low rate failure.  So the standby gyro was slaved to the INS.  Sure enough, the INS had a very slow rate failure which the computers did not recognize and thus warn the pilot.  So on that faithful night, he flies a precision approach into El Toro in the SOCAL coastal fog and ends up CFIT (controlled flight into terrain), or in this case, Controlled Flight Into Water.  After investigating the accident, the MD engineer responded, "well I wouldn't have guessed that could happen".  No shit Sherlock!  The standby gyro was given its own power and information source independent of the INS.

Then, an instructor takes off out of Lemoore one night bound for San Clemente Island for some FCLPs.  In the goo, he shoots a perfect approach for San Clemente Island, at Santa Catalina Island and experiences CFIT.  How could such an experienced pilot make that mistake?  Engineering design oversight in software development.  Yes, the pilot failed to complete all required steps to change TACAN frequencies, but, little did he know (manuals never stated such) that it would bite him in the ass and lead to his death and destruction of a new airplane.  Software was changed shortly after this accident.  Now if you fail to press the enter button after a few seconds the newly entered frequency will repeatedly flash in your face rather than simply disappear, leaving you on your last TACAN frequency.

So yes, back in the early days, we lost a few guys using the Hornet as a lawn dart.

 @Corps Hornet Driver Yeah I know what you mean, this October I'll commemorate my 20th year out of the Navy.  Nearly a lifetime ago, I was LPO of a TARPS shop in an F-14 sqdrn.  We hosted RF-4's for a couple of competitions, I think one RAG outfit was still flying RF-8's.  God man you take me back, good times and JP5 in the air.  Not to speak ill of them but when the A-7 was swapped for the F-18 we called the Hornets "Lawn Darts."  But I guess they have come into their own.

 @ArcticWarrior  I think the pilot was Ed Macy ? He's an English bloke , wrote a book called apache. It's interesting to get the pilots prospective on war.

 @ArcticWarrior It was a Texas National Guard Marine unit.  I'm still trying to find the details.

 @Tango9

 3 trips, man the pucker factor on the 3rd ride out would be through the roof, thats dipping into the good luck well. The Cobra I think had done that in type of thing in Vietnam as well.Also I thought I had someone tell me of the160th landing Little Birds on city streets in Panama City during Just Cause to extraxt CAG.

 @Riceball What about a straight absorption of the AF by the Army? A bunch of the drone work over in the stans was picked up by the Army anyway, mistake on AF's part I think, and they are focused on space missions these days (so i've heard). I think its almost a matter of time until we see the Army AF again.

 @Riceball I agree, especially now that 5 A-10 squadrons are going to be cut. The AF should give them to the Army instead of letting them sit in a hangar.

 @ArcticWarrior I wonder if it's maybe time for at least the AF & the Army to revisit Key West and come up with a new agreement or make amendments to the existing one that would allow the Army to operate their own fixed winged CAS aircraft.

 @Riceball

 Yeah you are right. That argument is getting hot again due to AF BRASS wanting to send a bunch of 'Hogs to DavMon. If they dont want CAS fine man up and tell Congress, let the Army buy the '10s.

@Old PH2 @ArcticWarrior I agree, I think the advantage is in the altitudes that the Navy operates in versus the AF. In my experience the Navy and Marines just flew lower and bombed lower. The AF is the unsurpassed expert at dropping bombs from high altitude and are oriented towards planes that are undetectable to the enemy. You have to watch CNN to find out they were there after the press release comes from the AF. The Navy seems to take a different tact. They go in low, drop bombs with loud speakers blaring Achors Away and litter the target with squadron stickers that say in effect; "These craters are courtesy of the US Navy." The Marines are no different. I think that contrast between the AF's stealth/high altitude approach versus the Navy/Marine Corps "go in low and bore in to the target" makes the difference in close air missions. That being said, the A-10 guys are superb, but they are specialists within the larger AF. As an aside, back during the Libya uprising there was a rescue of an AF pilot or back seater(was it an F-15?) Anyway, when the first reports came in they reported that the SAR crew hosed some friendly civilians who came running at the rescue bird which was not indentified in the report. I called a Marine buddy of mine on the phone right away and told him that the Navy had just pulled off a rescue. He asked me how I knew. I told him that if civilians had run up to an AF rescue bird the mission commander would have said; "Hold your fire they might be friendlies," But on a Navy rescue the commander would have said "Hose em' they might be hostiles." It's a difference in attitude. Sure enough, a week later it comes out that it was an Marine Osprey from the USS Kearsarge.(To all AF readers; Nothing but deep and abiding respect for the AF here, just pointing out some differences in fighting styles).

 @chaos9

 Like I said earlier AF does do a good job, the guys in the seats do try. I just dont want to see the ' Hog go away. Dont get me wrong when the 22's came to EAFB I went to go see them, awesome machines. Loved when the Alert Cell guys would go screaming at full AB over my house on those cold dark Alaskan nights, but when a 2 ship of Hogs show up to help out its a beautiful sight and sound.

Just curious, do we need a new CAS piece or just refurbish the primitive, but tired A-10's?

 @ArcticWarrior i know from first hand experience that the usaf would rather live in the days of dogfighting and flying slick fast fighters. we all know that we haven't fought that kind of war since korea. i'm not saying that we don't need that capability, but if the air force wants to hold on to fixed wing assets in the future then they should focus more on developing a new cas asset to replace the A-10. they are slowy headed in that direction, as shown by their recent decision to double the number of JTAC's in the ranks. there's also a move to develop a low intensity attack aircraft (such as the embraer). however, we keep dropping a gagillion dollars on the f-22 and f-35. my guess is the powers that be in the usaf wish to turn almost the entire usaf cas mission over to drones. i'll be eating my words someday if we mix it up w/ china

 @Riceball She's his EX , He's still USMC and in the Air.  Last I spoke to him he's at an undisclosed location where it's kind of dusty.

 @ArcticWarrior  @Tango9 I should amend that, Not all of the Naval aviators hated flying low.  Some of those guys where bat shit crazy, would do anything.

 @Old PH2 Come one, Old PH2, you should know well enough to know that there's no such thing as and EX Marine, only fFormer Marines, though some would argue there's not even such a thing as Former Marine, only Marines.

Anyhow, I totally agree with what you said about the Corps providing CAS. Back when I was in I was in I was part of the DASC (Direct Air Support Center), that odd duck of the Air Wing that doesn't fly and works almost as much with the ground pounders as we did with the Wing. Our job was all about getting the Marines on the ground their air support be it beans, bullets, bombs, band aids, or just a lift we'd take their requests and make sure the planes and/or helos would get to them.

 @ArcticWarrior  @Tango9  Served with a Helo Sqrn, and a FITRON back in the 80's.  The go fast guys had no love for flying low, remember we used to provide Tactical Recon back then.  I recall a det to Pax river when they began testing of using F-14's as CAS.  The ensuing comedy was lost on the Aviators. 

 @Tango9  @Old PH2

 Lol..not baggin' on the AF, I've seen the hate come rainin down. Just asking to help us light INF guys a little more. I like seeing the pilot, that means he can see me. Sure its cool when an E model lays it down or out of the blue you see the impact then hear it, that came from something you dont see. Thats much appreciated. Just saying they show no love for CAS overall.

 @Old PH2  @ArcticWarrior heh.  you understimate us zoomies at your peril.  Yes we have a metric ton of  crybabies, but within that bunch are a select group of warriors.  Some of us can bring the hate.

 @Old PH2

 Overall the AF does good, Im tight with some of the jocks at EAFB, but when you are a small light Infantry unit beyond the Foward Lines you want low and slow bringing the goods. And nothing beats the 'Hog. Its the AF insistence that the Army doesnt get CAS assets that burns me. As for the Marines you are absolutely correct. But for me and mine...dont care who it is just put it down.