Home » Special Operations » A look at future battlefields with the IDF

A look at future battlefields with the IDF

by · March 14, 2012 · Posted In: Special Operations
rangerskandahar
‘



‘

Related Posts

As the GWOT continues to wind down for a large swath of the US Military, the Special Operations community defense planners and military leaders are sure to have their eye on the next conflict that America could be facing.  While I’m the first to point out that there is a lot of hype going on inside the defense establishment (particularly when it comes to cyber attacks), it is certainly worth while not to let our guard down or let our Army go soft to peacetime.  Think about the post-Vietnam War years…

The above video shows the IDF training in some unconventional settings, including underground with Oxygen tanks to combat exposure to methane I would think.  Also, we see these soldiers conducting a demolition breach and then sending the robot in.  I see micro-UAVs being employed for this task in the very near future.

I also did some research on this subject when writing Reflexive Fire and found that when the enemy has dug into a mountain side with 2,000 or more feet of overburden (underground), that the compound is more of less impenetrable by US air power short of nuclear weapons.  For this reason, I suspect that hard target interdiction will be a task handled by SOCOM and specifically trained for.  Whoever we square off with in the coming decades, they are going to follow in the footsteps of the Viet Cong and the Taliban to avoid American air superiority.

Follow Sofrep on:
OR  rss
24 comments
  Livefyre
Newest | Oldest
eenis
eenis

I was always taught to stay out of the "fatal funnel" of doorways and windows, have things changed?

BoxOfGridSquares
BoxOfGridSquares like.author.displayName 1 Like

If future battlefields consists of fogged up masks in which you can't see anything, I wish you guys luck.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @BoxOfGridSquares We did the fogged up goggles thing back in the day, that didn't work so hot...

Tango9
Tango9

 @JackMurphyRGR  @BoxOfGridSquares I remember donning full chem gear the first time and thinking:  "We might have to fight in this?"  Couldn't see shit was an understatement.  This was in the late 80's.

Sharon Friedman
Sharon Friedman like.author.displayName 1 Like

Even regular infantry does this work in the IDF as I can state from experience. The whole kit is not likely to be there when you reach or find one of the holes but it is great to see the best at it doing a demo. Doing force on force drills in caves and in dug bunkers sure makes you want to be a silent small target :)

KineticFury
KineticFury like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Jack Murphy: "I also did some research on this subject when writing Reflexive Fire and found that when the enemy has dug into a mountain side with 2,000 or more feet of overburden (underground), that the compound is more of less impenetrable by US air power short of nuclear weapons."

 

That "Massive Ordnance Penetrator" (MOP) - can supposedly dig through 32 stories - which is 'only' 250-300 feet. To hit below 2,000 ft., it would be equivelant to 8 (!!!!) consecutive strikes by  said 30,000lb penetrator. Pentagon just approved $60 mil for 16 of 'em.

"For this reason, I suspect that hard target interdiction will be a task handled by SOCOM and specifically trained for."

That right there is proof that we will never be able to fully replace boots on the ground.

 

Do you/ya'll think Israel would attempt something like this along with air-strikes? Without the US involved? I always want to learn more about the IDF - thanks.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @KineticFury Mostly it comes from digging into the side of a mountain.  There is a really interesting open source study out there that I found.  One method of "clearing" an underground installation that was mentioned was setting off some kind of fuel air type explosive in the entrance that would burn up all the oxygen inside.

Tango9
Tango9

 @JackMurphyRGR that is exactly how you clear caves.

Tango9
Tango9

 @JackMurphyRGR Collapsed lungs from the pressure difference really makes it hard to fight back.  Or live, for that matter.  FAE weapons aren't PC anymore, but oh, do they work.

KineticFury
KineticFury like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR Yikes. Talk about a lousy day at work... Sounds better than simply 'burying' it like you hear so much.

JWS8
JWS8 like.author.displayName 1 Like

They are not wearing Oxygen tanks, its compressed breathing air...

 

Angryman
Angryman like.author.displayName 1 Like

That's the Yaalom unit, it's the combat engineer's special operations unit. They deal with precision demo, mine field and other land clearance in order to allow other SOF to infil, and other specialized engineering tasks, like clearing tunnels.

Old PH2
Old PH2 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

I also wonder if the US is prepared for a Mumbai style sea born attack?  Using "DevGru" as an aggressor for training CT was one of the original missions given to Cmdr. Marcinko.

OPR
OPR

 @Old PH2 Isn't there a training evolution in Delta's OTC that includes gathering intelligence on or penetrating into US government facilities?

Angryman
Angryman like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @OPR I don't know about Delta or ST6, but other units in the US military do conduct red cell type of operations. The same goes to the IDF.

Old PH2
Old PH2

 @OPR Personally, No clue.  I only provided support for Navy, NIS, CHINFO, LANTFLT, and other Naval intel consumers.

LCpl X
LCpl X

FBI will only take over if the local police/sheriff does not have the resource. I'll agree with you most powdunk police will not have the resource, or they'll have a bunch of fat asses as their SWAT. But major cities will have dedicated SWAT units comparable to any Delta/ST6, although their bread/butter will be breaching, hostage rescue and barricaded situations, so they're not as BA as Delta/ST6.

 

The Beslan school hostage is within the perview of any major city SWAT. 

 

Remember when ST6/Delta first stood up late 70s, they went to LAPD SWAT to learn all of the above.

 

Plus you have this which renders everything you say moot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

JC
JC like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LCpl X In a scenario like the Beslan school hostage in Russia, where terrorist took over a school full of children. I wouldn't have to much faith in the local SWAT or the FBI HRT if they get called up no matter how much money they get. it bothers me that we wouldn't be able to use units that train for this day in and day out (Delta or Devgru) because of politics.

 

LCpl X
LCpl X like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Old PH2 

 

LOL! "Red Robbin", as I was reading I was like "YUM!!!".

 

Yeah, would definitely like to see more SOF-local Police interactions, especially in training. This would be easy too, as many major city police have a bunch of former SOFs. After 10 yrs of these wars, only the gear have trickled down to local police level, but not really the good TTPs.

Old PH2
Old PH2 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LCpl X Duh... Robin Sage.  WTF forgive me I've had two TBI's.

Old PH2
Old PH2

 @LCpl X i know this kind of thing happens during Red Robin but what I'm talking about is actual CT training for some of these LEO.  I know it goes on, but I really think these kind of things need to be more mainstream.  In the  Fayette nam area it's commonplace but not in BFE center of the Midwest.  Maybe these kind of training evolutions need to be more "de-centralized."

LCpl X
LCpl X like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Old PH2 

 

This should be a police matter once they land wherever they land, LA, SF, NY, Chicago, etc. Local police have been given so much DHS money, which justifies DHS' existence, that this should be a police matter.

 

Columbine changed the game for regular patrol, active shooter(s) pop up, you don't wait for SWAT, you have your 45, M4 type, and shotgun. Hazmat, bomb, dogs, etc etc units funded by DHS, use 'em.

 

With all the fusion centers stood up (again thanks to DHS) federal entities, like FBI and DoD making coordination easy will be there to assist, but it should be local police.