@Fratus 23 It could be any CT/HR-oriented unit.
@Fratus 23 Every "Little Black Book" owned by the secret service was getting armed escort out of the country?
If its the 160th its got to be CAG.
1992 L.A. riots. Marines were called in to help out. One squad of Marines were helping out some cops. Coppers were trying to get to an apt. bldg, needed cover. "Cover us, we're going in!!!", and before they could take 3 steps, the apt. building was riddled w/ bullets like Lebanon. Coppers turned back to the Marines and were all like, "What the fuck? We just wanted you to cover us." Laying down cover fire and cops' version of cover, all semantics, good thing it was during a riot.
@LCpl X @Old PH2 If this incident happened in North Pasadena/Altadena which was and still is the kind of area where you see all the apt complexes with 20ft high steel rod fences (a sign of a truly nice area). I er know a girl who has proof of the exchange via radio traffic. I had just divorced and moved out of a house in the area and it was always bad (w/in 1 block we were always making news although it wasn't even the worst of the areas). It was when I learned that local newspapers (probably broadcasters too) were usually property owners in the area and didn't want people to know about what was going on. They reported that Pasadena was safe and no one should worry. She had two old scanners (before the days of computer interface) and used a camcorder to save momentarily locked-on freqs. There was an immense amount of danger there (and it wasn't as bad as Crenshaw or Fairfax). If one looked Asian as my friend did, you'd get shot at. While driving, I had the side window up and an aimed head shot grazed and deeply scratched the window going on to leave a perfect entry/exit hole in the plastic window post dividing the front and rear driver side windows. It sounded like a cherry bomb, I ducked and blew the KZ. Three female joggers running the usually safe path around the Rose Bowl were straffed by carbine fire from a moving car - fortunately no one was hurt. A Japanese-American engineer working at JPL got shot at, windows broken but he was missed. Anyway, back to the thread. Convoys of gang cars would leave the housing there and either would mass loot Pasadena stores (sometimes jumping out and beating leaving customers of restaurants in Old Town) - or (and this was bad) they would use one stolen car to crash into gunstore fronts, jump out and grab everything they could. Somewhere, I have photos of the aftermath. They would then split up and use freeways or freeway frontage roads and main thoroughfares to leave a police AO and rendezvous at their big apt complexes later. She happened to be recording one frequency when a convoy of police descended on one complex on Lincoln Avenue in one line and the lead cars came under fire from many windows of the apartment. The radio chatter sounded like Vietnam with the lead officers yelling that they were coming under fire and trying to get the other cars to back off enough so they could get out. Whether or not any armed forces were at this one I don't know, but it was happening all over the city. Not one single word of any of these events on the news. We happened to be teaching a beginner's defensive handgun class at the Huntington Police Range and we suddenly got 117 students. I was also doing part-time work at Turners - there was a line which circled the inside of the store and I often heard professional looking young people exclaim in outrage, "What do you mean I can't get it today???!" Sorry, you voted for those laws. I'm nutty enough to ask the owner (I was one of the two who were allowed to carry in the store) if I could stay on one of the roofs with some of my equipment but he declined. I have some other hair raising stories too, but too long for the thread.
@LCpl X Honestly, especially these days, Old Town and the surrounding are are really safe and well patrolled though I did get a jaywalking ticket once by an officer in training and changed it to a moving violation once. I flippin' Love The Yardhouse - if you're around again, give me a holler! It's the area about 1/2 mile north of the 210 where it starts to get dicey. Once you get to Altadena, it's an odd place. There are patches of super high end neighborhoods surrounded by some very inner city types. I think it's better up there now but basically as you go north on Lincoln Ave to where it ends and north on Fair Oaks Ave up where you see those super-tall fences, that's where the excitement is. Up to and a little past Walnut is fine. North past Orange Grove is a wonderful place to practice being very aware. When I lived just past the end of Lincoln Ave (which forms the eastern border of the canyon JPL is in) the kids next door would be playing out in the front yard and rather than arguing about which football team they were, they'd argue about whether they were "Crips" or "Bloods." Then they'd just disappear when these giant jailhouse tattooed guys from the next block up would wander down the street. I've heard it's been gentrified lately, but I haven't been up that far in awhile. The first week we were there, after the next door lady came to our door to beg for money, a bicyclist drive by shooter killed someone in an apartment bedroom exactly the next block down. I heard six shots, my ex jumped and said "What's that??!" I said they sound more like gunfire than backfires, but you'll know if anyone got hit if we hear sirens. Then we heard sirens. That week the poor guy who worked for the papers was stabbed to death for the change he collected and later that year a gang retaliation Molotov a half block away killed the mother who had for the night swapped sleeping on the living room couch instead of her teen son. She was medevac'd to no avail and it made national news....sad. I got so used to nightly gunfire, finding spent bullets on the street and the helicopter, that after I divorced and worked up in Silicon Valley, I couldn't sleep. Took me awhile to figure it out. btw - moving there was against my wishes and my ex basically said "My way or the highway." blargh.
Dang, kat! Thanks for the heads up about Pasadena, been to the Yardhouse a couple of times at the Paseo and a couple bars on Colorado old town. Never imagined Pasadena to be South Central LA, although I'm just an off the 210 straight to Colorado Blvd type of guy.
Pasadena PD is no joke either, usually in touristy places coppers adjust to the crowd. Most coppers are real cool talking to Marines, Pasadena however will straight up tell you to get the fuck out of their face. Saw an off duty copper get arrested for pissing in public ("I'm Sheriff's, man, I'm Sheriff's", "I don't give a fuck who you are." LOL!), Pasadena PD's no joke, they'll fuck with you even if you're a cop.
Your stories shed more light about Pasadena, kat. Great stories.
@JackMurphyRGR @ArcticWarrior @LCpl X @Old PH2 <blush again> I have some odd experiences (some unfortunate) which is one of the reasons I study and train so hard. Thank you for trusting me with them. I will never ever make up a tall tale, just things I've experienced, or seen first hand. Because my dad recounted his tales to me (WWII) I think as a way of working though his feelings (as well as being a medical family), it trained my mind to look and dig for things I think most civilians don't see. Having been little during the Watts riots, earthquakes and been to close to the center of things during the 92 riots, I was able to appreciate preparedness without necessarily being a victim. A lot of what I study has to do with understanding how well trained soldiers are able to function and operate effectively while in the most horrific situations because of my own fears. I kept Jim Cirillo's old articles about his days in the NYC Stakeout squad because in those days, he was one of the rare credible sources of information. I made an effort check off the items of the list he found to be common to the ones who survived, prevailed and were able to continue w/o long term stress as one example. I learned very early that one "does what one has trained to do" awfully early. It's another reason I study good military history, TTP, unit histories etc so hard. Like my dad I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who can go cold when I should be freaking, do what I'm supposed to do, then freak out later (helps in his field of medicine too). Short little visual of the 92 Riots here. Rather than stay locked up at home shivering and obsessed with the news, I wanted to go out as safely as possible in Pasadena and see how things were; kind of like 1. Taking walks in your nice neighborhood tells you what is really going on rather than becoming a frightened mouse inside. 2. I have the kind of personality that just cannot "sit inside the wire." (probably get that from my dad). Anyway, I used to have a little Honda CM400 then so during the peak of the news events I threw on my Class II vest (got it when HAC wanted to send me to Iran for a project, but what was going on there made me back down), my BHP w/ a couple of spare factory 20rnd mags from a Hereford manufacturing overrun and a kit in a daypack and went out to explore the area. I thought it would not only a low key way to go, but I could outmaneuver and accelerate faster than some old model Olds. Have you seen the old 50s/60s Science Fiction movies where aliens landed, and everyone evacuated except some small group who were asleep or whatever? I cannot tell you how much it was like experiencing that (which is I'm sure trivial to what a lot of you have experienced). The streets were empty except for a rare car, wood (mostly pine) smoke was hanging thick and low. I managed to see some burned down businesses and a boarded up local gunstore which had been looted. Not a person out. I'll never forget imagining I'd see Kronos stomping over the next buildings! I had a miniature com center going in my place so I could hear what was going on. (btw, that experience was one of the reasons I want to get a good IIIA K-pot, I could really see how it would make a difference in MOUT!). If it ever happens again, bad areas to the north and south. I'll have to make a toy-FOB (I did find a detailed map of the storm drains to the north of me recently <grin>) I'll try to remember other stuff I've seen (been abused so I have my own little form of PTSD and fears in which training helps-I'm quite a scardy kat at heart but always trying to work through and challenge my fears). About a year ago I went to do a little sighting in at a 500yd range and saw a joint exercise going on there: http://twolftfeet.com/me/joint_exercises_500yd_range.jpg
@LCpl X @Old PH2 I have also heard that story, and it makes me laugh every time I hear it. Cover by fire!
Different time and different place--I didn't see riots break out after the Japanese tsunami last year.
@LCpl X OOps! That's funny shit! I would have loved to see the cops faces.
I think the local/Fed law enforcement conducting exercises with SOFs around our major cities is just a cover-up,
My theory, especially at O'hare, is that they're preparing for UFO interdiction once first contact occurs:
I recall something about the possible use of US military for Law Enforcement during the 1960's.
Many of you younger guys may not remember, I was just a little guy, but the 60's were scary times to be in a big city.
This link tells a few things but has gaps from the early 70's until 1984, still classified:
Can I just share that I'm looking forward to a little freelance hippie clubbing.. I mean, in my backyard and everything..
@jrexilius I picked up a hoodie from Ranger Up years ago that says "I (club symbol from deck of cards) Hippies.
I get more compliments on that shirt...
I'd be staring up at them (like a drowning chicken in the rain) and wanting to grab my cameras, but not wanting to get a bad mark on my files :)
I like how this gets headlines but when the Air National Guard accidently shot a local elementary school near me it got swept under the table.
Some overzealous pilot held onto the trigger just a little to long when pulling up on his run.
We get overflights of all kinds of fun stuff where I live. They have a word for it I think it's called... training.
@Tango9 You can conduct training outside of major metropolitan areas. For that matter you can hold NATO secret tree fort meetings outside of major cities as well, which would make sense given the alleged security concerns. JSOC has had a role in security for these events in the past (they violate their own OPSEC by conducing these excercises ahead of the actual event in at the same venue) so there may not be anything more to this. On the other hand, see ArcticWarrior's comment below...
@JackMurphyRGR Dude.. I'm a little confused. I kinda get the training value of a big city but, seriously, the hippies aren't that dangerous. I would assume that JSOC is busy with real work. Pulling guard duty for a POTUS party in his home town just doesn't seem worth it...?.. I guess unless there is some I&W about something going down.. But even then, advanced warning can get the domestics into gear to do their job.
What am I missing?
@jrexilius The elites like to use their most trusted soldiers (JSOC) as palace guards when they feel threatened. That's my take on it anyway.
@JackMurphyRGR I hear you Jack, but until I see stories of urban training ops in US towns and cities, I'm going to withhold my conspiracy theories.
There's myriad reasons you don't conduct training ops near cities, most of those revolving around safety. Give a bunch of Red Horse engineers enough time and beer and they'll build a major city for you out in the middle of nowhere... so again I agree: also for OPSEC reasons this is a no-no.
My spidey sense is going off on this one and it's telling me this was a, for a better term: "fuck up."
@JackMurphyRGR not to mention the private security firms that participated.
@Tango9 @JackMurphyRGR @Connor. No - we just have to keep pushing back. None of you veterans fought for useless reasons. This sight is part of the new "Common Sense". Never lose heart
@JackMurphyRGR @Tango9 @Connor. Hmmm. My previous post may not have taken. Jack - didn't you post sometime back on a new camouflage pattern set from a Canadian company based on an urban background in a Canadian city? Eerily the background looked like many US cities as well. There is a market being pushed from someplace.
True Republic Rome transmogrified to Imperial Rome fairly quick.
Abe Lincoln suspended HC and had federal troops fire on civilians in the draft riots in NYC, any treatment of Native Americans who had binding treaties, Dougie Mac fired on US WW1 vets protesting during the depression, the 60's,Patriot Act,NDAA, its been going on for a while. We let it happen by not electing true leaders or by not voting at all.
It always starts with good intentions doesnt it?
@JackMurphyRGR @Tango9 @Connor. Bingo - Jack, do you mind dusting off that post you did on the Canadian company making urban camouflage for the military? That had some subtle undertones as well. Cause and Effect diagrams all...there are no coincidences in life.
@ArcticWarrior I was here in the LA Riots. I hooked up receivers and scanners and camcorders and swept the gov't bands as well as LE. (that's how you find out the real news). Before the days of spread spectrum etc. I found the fed sniper freqs. Very interesting. I also worked at a Turners and the bad guys were running convoys of cars around. One set would run a car into a gun store and the rest would grab all they could. I volunteered to man the roof or another one with my gear. Turns out everyone in the store had too... I also helped teach a level 1 defensive handgun course. 117 came out that weekend at the Hunt Beach Police Range :)
fyi snipercountry was informed it was under the congressional eye. Unfortunately, my parents know that any country can suspend civil liberties any time it wants to.
@ArcticWarrior I never head of that before and although I'm sure the intentions are good, I have some acid stomach now.
@Tango9 Zombies or Hilary's NATO stuff! <grabbing aluminum foil>
Tango its been done in a lot of cities and towns, all the major ones, and its not just JSOC its CFs as well. Here is another well known one:
For Immediate Release July 25, 2011 Released By: Mayor’s Office For More Information Contact: Mayor’s Press Office Press.Office@cityofboston.gov
Joint federal military training exercises will take place within and around the Boston area between July 26th and August 5th. Military personnel will conduct training exercises to ensure the military’s ability to operate in urban environments, prepare forces for upcoming overseas deployments, and meet mandatory training certification requirements. Helicopters will be used in some exercises.
The Boston Police Department is working with military personnel to coordinate training sites that will minimize negative impacts on our Boston citizens and their daily routines. Safety precautions have been taken to prevent risk to the general public and the military personnel involved. With that, training site locations are not open to the public and will be guarded by uniformed personnel to provide additional safety.
SEC. 1068. REPEAL OF PROVISIONS IN SECTION 1076 OF PUBLIC LAW 109–364 RELATING TO USE OF ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES. (a) INTERFERENCE WITH STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS.— (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 333 of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read as follows: ‘‘§ 333. Interference with State and Federal law ‘‘The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it— ‘‘(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or ‘‘(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.’’. (2) PROCLAMATION TO DISPERSE.—Section 334 of such title is amended by striking ‘‘or those obstructing the enforcement of the laws’’ after ‘‘insurgents’’. (3) HEADING AMENDMENT.—The heading
@Tango9 @JackMurphyRGR "Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of local governments and law enforcement agencies in using federal military personnel to enforce the laws of the land. Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any authority to do so must exist with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress. In this way, most use of the Army and the Air Force at the direction of the President does not offend the statute, even though it may be problematic for other reasons (politically)."
Wikipedia is the shit lol
@Tango9 @Connor. Dust off that tin foil hat brother. Posse Comitatus has been essentially nullified. I know both Special Forces and 82nd Airborne soldiers who were on the ground in New Orleans after Katrina. That is just one instance in which our soldiers had high visibility, there are many others where they stayed under the radar.
@Tango9 @JackMurphyRGR Secret Service with the 160th? Those guys would be falling off the Little Bird benches. I'm with Jack here, they're probably rehearsing a contingency plan in case shit hits the fan at the NATO summit.
@JackMurphyRGR This doesn't make me happy at all. And in fact I think it is a "fuck up" but on a whole other level. Do realize the political suicide and repercussions of a president that actually responded with boots on the ground in a non-humanitarian sense inside US borders?
@JackMurphyRGR There is that whole bit about the Posse Comitatus Act, 1878. Federal US forces can't be used to enforce US laws. Perhaps they were secret service personnel? Otherwise I'll be dusting of my tin foil hat.
@Tango9 This was numerous Blackhawks and Littlebirds flying inbetween skycrapers in Chicago. No way was this a fuck up or some kind of mistake. Flying helicopters in the city like that is a huge deal and would be cleared at the highest levels. What you saw in the video was just that, an urban training operation. It doesn't mean that there is some sinister motive, maybe it is just a dry run for contingency plans re: the NATO summit. The "why" behind this is up for grabs but I think the "what" is pretty clear.