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Home » Black Ops & Intel » SOF, Kony 2012, and The Great Game in Central Africa

SOF, Kony 2012, and The Great Game in Central Africa

by Jack Murphy · May 15, 2012 · Posted In: Black Ops & Intel, Coalition SOF, NSWC, SOF News, Special Operations, USASOC
ChildSoldiersUganda
The more things change, the more they stay the same.  The War on Terror is winding down, or so we are told, with all but a token force left behind in Iraq and a phased withdrawal set to begin in Afghanistan soon.  Interestingly, the war seems to be expanding outwards in all directions with covert and other low visibility operations in Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Colombia, the Philippines, and beyond.  That’s not even taking into account the constellation of drone bases being established throughout the Middle East and Africa.

Related Posts
  • The Secret War in Africa & The Truth About Kony 2012
  • Three U.S. Special Operations Soldiers Die in Mali
  • EPIC FAIL: UN Peacekeeping in Africa

Africa and The Great Game:

The Chinese have been making serious inroads in Africa over the last few decades with billions in investments.  China has approached many African nations and offered them a better deal than the United States.  They stay out of African internal politics and offer military aide and infrastructure support in exchange for access to natural resources.  As we know, Sub-Saharan Africa has large deposits of rare earth minerals needed in the manufacture of electronics as well as the natural gas and oil fields off the coast of Mozambique and Libya respectively.

Over the years, Western organizations like the IMF and the World Bank haven’t exactly made a good name for themselves in Africa.  By all accounts they’ve raped many third world countries and have no success stories to their credit.  At the same time, direct military intervention by America seems unrealistic, especially coming off of over a decade of war in the Middle East.  So how does the West intend to counter Chinese influence in Africa?

Time to do some corporate branding!

But first a word from our sponsors:

Let’s wind back the clock a bit.  On October 12th, 2011 the Obama administration announced that they would be deploying 100 combat troops to Uganda with all the mandatory euphemisms to indicate that the objective was the capture or kill Joseph Kony.  Without a doubt Kony is a giant dirtbag, but he’s a minor dirtbag.  Kony was never really a regional much less a global player.  Some of my acquaintances are old hands in the region, being Africans themselves who served in Rhodesia, South Africa, Angola, and elsewhere.  They tell me that Kony is just some old asshole hiding out in the jungle and is liable to keel over from some tropical disease any day now.  Hardly the menacing Osama Bin Laden-type boogyman of the African continent that we’ve been told he is.

Take another step back.  Even before Obama’s October 12th announcement, I’ve been told that there was an interesting deployment of a US Army Civil Affairs unit to the Congo in 2010.  My information is that an interesting character with the CA team and that he was walking around the markets collecting SIGINT data.  This is what we would call Operational Preparation of the Environment or OPE.  “Atmospherics” is the buzzword used for this type of data, the type of data that would come in handy when tracking down Kony’s cross-border jungle hide out.

Uganda was on someone’s agenda going back a lot farther than what the public is aware of and I doubt it has anything to do with Joseph Kony.

Slick Multi-Media Roll-Out Makes War Look Trendy

The “Save Uganda” propaganda quota maxed out in March of 2012 with the release of Kony 2012.  The video quickly went viral with celebrities such as Rihanna and Justin Bieber promoting it on Twitter.  Looking at the official Kony 2012 video that was uploaded to YouTube I see that the documentary now has 89 million views.  Kony 2012 uses story telling to attain viewer empathy, getting young Americans to relate to a trendy white kid who goes to Uganda to help people and than makes a powerful call-to-action by stating that 2012 is the year that Kony should finally be stopped, brought to justice, or whatever.

Joseph Kony

The film is clever on many levels with high production values.  My favorite part is when the director uses his son as a prop, sitting him down for a briefing.  Like a General issuing marching orders to his Soldier, he slides a picture of Kony across the table.  “This is the bad guy?” the kid asks.  Yeah, we are told.  Now we’re all in the role of the child which makes sense in a way because this is how we are use to the media talking to us.  We’ve got our marching orders as well.

Becoming a viral sensation, Kony 2012 had its intended effect.  Walking around the campus of Columbia University in New York City, I began noticing signs and stickers for Kony 2012.  The trendy kids picked up on the documentary’s call-to-action, never questioning what motives may have been beneath the surface.  These flying monkeys did exactly what they were told to do and plastered billboards all over the city.

Who is behind Kony 2012?

Jason Russell is the director and star of Kony 2012.  Ten days after the release of his film, Jason was arrested in San Diego for irrational behavior.  Running around in the nude, pounding his fists on the ground, public masturbation, that sort of thing.  Happens to the best of us.  His family was quick to issue a statement saying that he was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol but was suffering from a “brief reactive psychosis”.

Jason Russell: Christian Evangelist, public masturbator, and patsy.

It seems that this tough guy who was calling for America to go to war with Kony and his Lord’s Resistance Army just couldn’t take the criticism that his film had gotten from Ugandans who thought the film was misleading and guys like me that are pretty skeptical about these sorts of wars that masquerade as humanitarian actions.  To be clear, I’m not alleging that Russell is part of some dark and sinister cabal that seeks to align Americans against Kony, providing the perfect pretext for the deployment of the US military to counter Chinese influence in central Africa.  No, that would require someone who knew what they were getting into.

Sadly, Russell is just a useful idiot in this whole scheme.

The Media Manipulator:

I don’t want to alarm anyone but I think you should know that your government often lies to you.  An interesting document that came out of the whole Wikileaks affair was a CIA memo titled, “Afghanistan: Sustaining West European Support for the NATO-led Mission-Why Counting on Apathy May not be Enough.”  If you think I’m being cynical or paranoid you should read this memo.

The abstract reads: “The fall of the Dutch Government over its troop commitment to Afghanistan demonstrates the fragility of European support for the NATO-led ISAF mission. Some NATO states, notably France and Germany, have counted on public apathy about Afghanistan to increase their contributions to the mission, but indifference might turn into active hostility if spring and summer fighting results in an upsurge in military or Afghan civilian casualties and if a Dutch style debate spills over into other states contributing troops. The Red Cell invited a CIA expert on strategic communication and analysts following public opinion at the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) to consider information approaches that might better link the Afghan mission to the priorities of French, German, and other Western European publics.”

The memo is a contingency plan for what might happen if European Soldiers began to be killed in droves in Afghanistan.  When the paper was written in March of 2010 the CIA assessed the European public as being completely ambivalent about the war and their troops fighting abroad.  However, the CIA felt that a back up plan should be kept in reserve in case voters attempt to force their leaders to withdrawal European troops, you know, the kinda of thing that an elected leader of a sovereign democracy might do.

America…not prepared to go it alone in A-Stan.

The document goes on to coldly analyze the ideological concerns specific to civilians in France and Germany, addressing how those people can be propagandized to help sure up the European public’s support for the war in Afghanistan.  Here is the key part:

“Afghan women could serve as ideal messengers in humanizing the ISAF role in combating the Taliban because of women’s ability to speak personally and credibly about their experiences under the Taliban, their aspirations for the future, and their fears of a Taliban victory. Outreach initiatives that create media opportunities for Afghan women to share their stories with French, German, and other European women could help to overcome pervasive skepticism among women in Western Europe toward the ISAF mission.”

So modern liberal sensibilities towards women’s rights issues can be exploited by re-branding Operation Enduring Freedom with a media campaign that highlights some heart strings stories, manipulating the public into giving further support to the war.

Does this sound familiar yet?  It should, because this has all happened before with the infamous Kuwaiti incubator babies in the run up to the Gulf War.

Of course the great hypocrisy of Kony 2012 is that the International Criminal Courts have also indicted the government of Uganda for stirring up a war with the Congo, including the use of child soldiers.  If anything, it sounds like the current government of Uganda is actually a lot worse than Kony!

Troops on the Ground:

US Special Operations Forces are now on the ground, supposedly on the hunt for Kony.

“‘We don’t necessarily go and track into the bush but what we do is we incorporate our experiences with the partner nation’s experiences to come up with the right solution to go out and hopefully solve this LRA problem,’ said Gregory, a 29-year-old captain from Texas,” according to the Huffington Post.  “Central African Republic soldiers largely conduct security operations in and around the town, while Ugandan soldiers, who have been in the country since 2010, conduct longer-range patrols looking for Kony and his men.”  Supposedly, Kony has gone dark to avoid electronic interceptions and is hiding out with 150 to 300 of his followers on the border between Sudan and the Congo.

With 3rd Special Forces Group tied up in Afghanistan, they’ve had to abandon their normal Area of Responsibility which is Africa.  For now at least, 10th Special Forces Group is filling the gap.  Word is that SEALs are on the ground in Uganda as well.

Thus far, the African Bin Laden remains elusive.

Long Term Agenda

To understand the strategic significance of Uganda you just have to look at a map.  Whoever exerts the greatest influence, or outright control, over Uganda gains access to a huge swath of Central Africa.  Uganda shares borders Kenya, Sudan, The Congo, Tanzania, and Rwanda.  By building espionage networks, drone airfields, initiating military advisory programs, technology transfers, and even surreptitious pay offs via large loans made by international money lending organizations such as the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, will allow the United States to project itself into all of the surrounding nations.

But first they need to use Kony to get their foot in the door.

Like most red blooded Americans, I think that people like Joseph Kony just need to be shot.  That said, I know a fraud when I see one and Kony 2012 is nothing but PR hype designed to bait Americans into supporting a long term geo-political strategy that places US forces all over the world.  I’d prefer to see the troops brought home and shift our focus onto fiscal responsibility and steering clear of conflicts that have nothing to do with our country.

Maybe you are of another political persuasion and that’s fine.  What bothers me is that people support wars under false pretenses, leading to larger problems down the road when we can’t support our own soldiers in theater because we never had any real commitment to the cause.  I know some people who consider themselves to be liberals who are vehemently anti-war…when a Republican is in office.  As soon as that passes, a Democrat takes his seat in the Oval Office and these same anti-war activists turn into raging war mongers.  MSNBC rolls out some war rhetoric tailored to their demographic and they can’t wait to start dropping bombs.  Use the right window dressing, call it a humanitarian action, and these dupes are all over it.

Whatever your political beliefs and world view is, just make sure that you are supporting military action for the right reason and not because you’ve fallen under the spell of some glossy PR stunt.

 

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Will_In my own bubble
Will_In my own bubble 5pts

I am very cynical about many things (Maybe being British makes me that way!) Anyway I laugh at these conspiracy theories that people come with because there are so many assumptions that are not logical. This article however, is very refreshing to have an analytical stance without emotions attached or outrage. (I hate tabloid newspapers for this reason) "The Economist" is always ahead of the curve in quality journalism, the Chinese have been "helping" (read exploiting) Africa on a large scale since 2005. See here : http://www.economist.com/node/18586448?story_id=18586448Africa will be the next battle ground. 

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts

 @Will_In my own bubble Uganda is being exploited in many ways, but i personally wonder if the US presence is due to other factors than the obvious.

 

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/uganda-bio/uganda-bio.htm

 

This facility in Entebbe is certainly one for concern.  Personally I make good use of the Economist, they really do give a great synopsis and intelligent analysis of world news.   

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

The author seems like a prick, but oh well...

 

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2012/05/14/why-the-capture-of-a-kony-lieutenant-isnt-a-big-deal/

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dm8471 Played these games with the Iraqis.  This is them turning over some low hanging fruit to make it look like they are doing their jobs.

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR Now I get the whole by, with, and through doctrine but could SF get those pricks unilaterally if they REALLY wanted to?

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR It's probably true, it's sad think about the fact it's off the backs of our Special Operators and the marginalized Central Africans.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @dm8471 People are probably sick of hearing me say this but...somebody is getting paid.

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR That's some hardcore gayness in the anus. It's rather sickening to think about lives getting thrown around like that.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @dm8471 Because they want to draw this thing out as long as possible.  Same deal as in the Philippines, the government has drawn their war with the Islamic insurgents out for decades because the US keeps giving them money and material to fight it.

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR Why the fuck doesn't JSOC do it now and a get some FID going in Uganda to 'build relationships' and  all that jazz?

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @dm8471 Sure, but when you have high priority targets JSOC is going to swoop in with their black helicopters and take the mission from you.  It's kind of frustrating in that regard. 

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

I found the amount of insincerity of the Kony 2012 video disturbingly creepy.

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Loving this discussion.  It was killing me all day to not be able to follow, so I'm playing catchup.  Way to get meaty, kids :)

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts

 @LauraWalkerKC :D Love your turn of phrase Laura!

Corps Hornet Driver
Corps Hornet Driver 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Jack...

 

While I concur the Chinese connection is worrisome...

And the African continent holds bountiful minerals and rare earth's...

 

I think this essay and your conclusions falls short.  Just my opinion which worth exactly what you paid...NOTHING!

 

Geo-politics is a strange game with even stranger bed fellows!

 

This subject matter is far more intricate, complex and worrisome than can be discussed here.

 

But...you provoked thought and that is good!

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Corps Hornet Driver I agree, it's just a short article and can't possibly include all aspects of what is happening in Africa.  I tried to focus on the Joseph Kony angle since that is being used as a driver on the US-side of things.  Even then, I had to omit certain aspects of it for the sake of brevity.

DonovanE
DonovanE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR Honestly, this is too perfect to be any kind of conspericy; the U.S. goverment could not think up a video that could convince millions of people to want war.

 

jrexilius
jrexilius 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

OK, I'll caveat this by saying up front, I've never seen the Kony video... But what irks me about the line you are taking on this, which is the line that all my liberal friends take, is to paint US engagement in Africa with the shortcomings of this specific video and as proof of some kind of evil hidden agenda.  "This video is crap and wrong, ergo the USG is being manipulative and evil in engaging in Africa, ergo, we shouldn't be in Africa"..

 

The CIA wikilieaks doc you site isn't representative of the government lying to anyone, it's a realistic analysis of the interplay of things happening on the ground and public opinion.  I don't think the analyst was suggesting that we get Afghan women to lie and say they are afraid of being ruled by the Taliban.  It was suggesting that you tell the voters about the other reasons why the soldiers fought and died.  But journalism is about spinning stories, eh?  Be it wikileaks sources or native women's stories?

 

I am getting some of your concerns and I'm completely on-board with the danger of lying about the objectives when engaging but are you seriously proposing that the USG say publicly that they are trying to stop China's growth in the region?  At some point real-world politics have to weigh in on things.

 

And are you saying that we should not make humanitarian efforts part of the engagement?

 

Should we not pursue terrorists and deny them safe havens?

 

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @jrexilius The fundemental problem we have is what I stated last time, that I think the manipulation of public opinion is bad, I think that involving outselves in foreign conflicts that have little to do with America is bad, and I think that we should re-examine our approach to foreign policy.  Your point of view is that we should insert ourselves upon other nations and engage in national building if it helps our real or preceived national interests.  It's a difference of prespective on how to maintain national security and secure our economic well being.  I don't think I'm going to swing you over to my side no matter how good an arguement I make because your world view is very different.

 

That said, I will try to address the individual issues you mention.

 

Yes, Kony 2012 is a farce.  Does the failings of one propaganda video discredit American foreign policy?  Not at all.  But take our track record into account and it speaks for itself and the video plays into a larger foreign policy initiative that had already been made.  What did America gain from our real politek in Afghanistan and Iraq?  We killed a lot of terrorists, true.  But we also expended a lot of American lives, material, and wealth.  In the long term we contributed to a failed state and created one in Iraq.  When we initiate these actions we don't go to war with the government we want, we go to war with the government we have.  We have no reason to believe that our actions in Uganda will be any more successful than in say, Somalia.

 

I don't know how you can think that there isn't a hidden agenda.  Obama deployed soldiers to Uganda under the auspices of tracking down and killing Kony but we know that is ridiculas.  If he said, "Hey, we need to go to Uganda to kick the Chinese out of the region and secure the area for a A, B, and C strategic interests we have in Central Africa" than I would agree that there is no hidden agenda but of course a politician will never say that.

 

The Wikileaks white paper I linked to is a clear cut plan of action for manipulating public opinion.  It talks about using a cause that already has traction in the tenets of liberal democratic values, a cause that Europeans are able to rally around.  The paper itself does not mention specifically inserting propaganda into media outlets via controlled leaks or anything like that but clearly states how the war could be re-branded as a woman's rights issue to maintain popular support for it.  I liken this to Kony 2012 for obvious reasons.  Yes, you can find abused women in Afghanistan.  Is the presence of those women enough to warrant a war in Afghanistan?  Is this something the abused women want?  In the end, it doesn't really matter because it's just a heart-strings issue to drive people, and nations, to war for other reasons.

 

I'm saying that our humanitarian engagement in Uganda is just a cover like WMD's were in Iraq.  We needed an issue to make the war more palatable to the public.  No politician is going to say that the war is great because it distracts people from domestic politics or because we want to ruthlessly carve our a buffer zone between country X and country Y.  Humanitarian efforts are great in many cases, but lets take a more critical look at them and how they are being used or misused.  I think I am speaking to the realities of politics, I just think we can do a whole lot better than this.

 

Pursueing terrorists and denying them safe havens is such a broad statement that it means very little.  If we take that at face value that we have justification to go to war with any country at any time because they all have terrorists in them somewhere.  Yes, we should go after some but we should be smart about how we do it.  Chasing ghosts in the jungles of the Congo that have no effect on regional, much less world events is not a smart approach to counter-terrorism.

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @jrexilius Excellent points all, if I may ramble a bit... I believe China has a bigger issue than raw material to handle, they have a serious demographic issue that will bring them down. They have a huge disparity in this generation between men and women, their government is providing an outlet - likely too late. I believe the excuse is also a valid point. Will we find something we don't like about Uganda that can not get released? Likely, just as I believe the Iraq WMD were found, but their origin could not be released...read the ISG reports. Amazing what they don't address. Should we chase downers? You bet, just don't lie to us. Bring home the troops to lock up the borders..that is the first step to security. Change the tax code, everyone over 18 yrs of age should pay 10% max income tax, same for US corps that make 100% (including energy) of their product here. You will see this country go berserk, less than 2% unemployment (I don't believe the BS stats we see now....). Then we can sit back and pick off our enemies and help our carefully chosen friends...my 2 cents.

jrexilius
jrexilius 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @ColonelProp Yes, they are going to have some problems and it's hard to imagine them becoming quite the global economic powerhouse that people are projecting given the core problems they have. But I doubt the strides forward they are making in regional military strength and influence will disappear.  The Russians didn't look so hot in the early 1900's but eventually proved to be a serious problem.  And that was before you could steal all American commercial and military know-how with a DSL line and some scripts.  And I don't remember us spending billions teaching the Soviets how to build industrial capacity..

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @ColonelProp  @JackMurphyRGR  @jrexilius Not to mention artificial economic growth in China.  They are going to be a mess in the coming decades...

jrexilius
jrexilius 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR You may be right that our foundational world views are different but I do see some of your points. 

 

I think, however, you haven't quite yet answered the question I've put to you, do you think it is rational to publicly state that one of your African foreign policy objectives is to inhibit China's influence in the region.  Is it wise to say that?  The world doesn't always work the way we want it to and on the international stage, as in life, you don't run around shouting the truth about everything all the time. (and if you say you do, tell me how it works out when she asks if those jeans make her look fat)..

 

One additional point I'd challenge, or rather you've challenged me to go look at, is the assumption that our foreign policy is a self-evident failure.   I agree, we screw up a lot and we've made some bad decisions.  We've also made good decisions and been yanked back by a change in the wind of public opinion.  I personally suspect that foreign policy is a lot like those guys in logistics or sys admins, the only time people notice you is when things break.  I can think of quite a few anecdotal personal experiences in countries where you could point to things working, but I think it's worth doing some research.  Thanks for pushing that button.

 

I think I want the US to be more like what you are advocating but I'd been an intel guy too long to not be more... coldly analytical about the nature of things.   Much as I long for the days when we could be more isolationist we're sadly well past that.  I guess that's one of those fundamental world view differences, I don't see us going back to a world of tall fences making good neighbors despite how much I'd like that.

 

 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @jrexilius Would it be rational to state up front what our real goals in Uganda are?  It depends on who's point of view we are talking about.  For the Obama Administration it would not be a rational decision to reveal their rather Macheveillian self interest in the region that has little to do with benefiting Americans.  That's why the action in Uganda needs a deception campaign to go along with it.

 

This article wasn't taking the side of the Obama administration, I don't front for them.  The point was an appeal to regular Americans to look at the situation with both eyes wide open and not to fall for the PR stunt.

 

On the other hand, the President that wins the favor of the public with the truth has so much legitimacy that he would probably be the most popular politician in our lifetime.  I'm not holding out for that though...

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

 @jrexilius  @JackMurphyRGR It's perfectly rational to state one of our policy objectives is to counter Chinese influence in central Africa. They're a competing economic power and they make no bones about it with regards to us. I think the entire point Mr. Murphy is making is let's call a spade a spade and have our government at least pursue its economic interests in a less conniving manner. However, and Mr. Murphy touched on this... the reputation of Western 'investors' *cough* *cough* and their relations w/ various governments/regimes/tribes may have made it difficult for our government to do just that. At the very least there's a disturbing amount of groupthink that has played into the drumming up of support for Kony 2012 and we would do well to take note how easy it can for that to happen.

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Great firestorm you have stirred up Jack. Can't say I disagree with too much said by your article. Gotta roll through the comments and see the trend here. I keep thinking about the Rhodesia - USA parallels unfortunately.

ajkmidget96
ajkmidget96 5pts

Oh, Patreus also said we were staying away from afghan minerals because of what happened in Iraq, blood for oil and all. we dont want to look like the bad guy to the afghan populous.

ajkmidget96
ajkmidget96 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

The one thing I'd disagree with is that the Kony 2012 mission was anything special, to get our "foot in the door" in Africa. Uganda has been our ally for a while, we've had troops there before. I think killing Kony is just another part of that alliance. that said, we are only allies with Uganda for all the reasons you listed above, China, minerals, oil, Sudan, ect.

mr_frosty_8172
mr_frosty_8172 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Fun Fact: "Rare earth minerals" used for electronics are not "Rare" at all, they are just a complete B!%@# to process.

Now that China is limiting how much they export there have been announcements of mines opening in California and Malaysia, and other places around the world plan to do the same!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @mr_frosty_8172 I wouldn't be surprised.  Artificial scarcity is a great fear tactic to drive up prices, from the diamond trade to "peak" oil.  The concept of "conflict minerals" is another way to drive up prices and create monopolies.

ajkmidget96
ajkmidget96 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @mr_frosty_8172 Peak oil? i dont think there is an endless supply out there...

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Androus  @ajmidget94  @JackMurphyRGR  @mr_frosty_8172 People have been predicting peak oil almost since it was first discovered for commercial use.  Same deal with copper and a bunch of other minerals we take for granted.  I'm not to worried about it myself.

Androus
Androus 5pts

@ajmidget94 @JackMurphyRGR @mr_frosty_8172 there isn't an endless supply out there...but there are gigantic reserves here in the US that have gone deliberately untapped. Off both the east and west coasts, for example. Ever wonder why the only place we drill offshore is the Gulf of Mexico? Oil is the single most political commodity besides food...and there's a crapload of money in it. You're on a need-to-know basis on oil and guess what, you don't need to know.

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts

@ajmidget94 @JackMurphyRGR @mr_frosty_8172 I submit that there is essentially an infinite oil supply. The money quote - why are there methane seas on the Saturn moon Titan if they are "fossil fuels"? For the readers pleasure... http://www.amazon.com/The-Deep-Hot-Biosphere-Fossil/dp/0387985468

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts

 @mr_frosty_8172 wouldn't it be strange if China (who have rare earth resources) wanted to be like a DeBeers of those elements :o  I'm being somewhat facetious here btw.

DJ_A
DJ_A 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @katgirl231  @mr_frosty_8172 Sounds like good capitalists to me...

Powers
Powers 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

"I’d prefer to see the troops brought home and shift our focus onto fiscal responsibility and steering clear of conflicts that have nothing to do with our country." Agreed. Back in the day America had a policy of neutrality and never caring about other countries but now America is now a "im all up in your business biatch". I hope this country will stir to the right direction.

jrexilius
jrexilius 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Powers  Much as I would love to go back to the days when we could actually mine, log, drill and manufacture in our own country, that time is past.  We can't provide for ourselves. 

 

Liberals have made the US a non-permissive environment for any raw materials or labor intensive industry.  Until that changes we will either be beholden to the whims of the rest of the world or we will need to be engaged in the rest of the world and make sure that our needs are met.

 

Call it evil conspiracy or just the end result of short-sighted, myopic liberalism but reality is what it is.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @jrexilius  @Powers I think this topic goes well with what we mentioned above.  I agree with you, at the moment we have no industrial capital thanks to many parties, including the greens who seem to hate civilization.  Building in America seems like a non-starter.  Shit, ask Brandon about that sometime...

 

However, do we really think that we can pad around this issue by expanding outwards and influencing the rest of the world?  Can we seriously expect to change the domestic policies of other countries in our favor when we can't get our own act together here in the United States?  Something to think about.

jrexilius
jrexilius 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR roger that.  

 

The world at large is in a position of mutual dependence in a lot of ways. We are lucky as, aside from our own stupidity, we are the closest country to being able to be largely self sufficient.  But we chose not to stay that course in the 70's and have to live with the consequences now.

 

You raise one very important point in that we can't perpetually outsource and import everything, forever, without cost or consequences.   

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @jrexilius My point was that I don't think it is possible to use our foreign policy as a tool to compensate for our ass backwards domestic political situation.  Building an empire will make us weaker, not stronger.

 

As for keeping our actions in Uganda brief and minimal, I'd like to agree.  However, you and I don't get to make those decisions and the current decision makers are breaking a lot more things than they are fixing.  You don't trust a child with a loaded gun, I don't trust the government with this loaded gun because they don't have the maturity to use these tools in a respondsible manner.

 

We do live in a Republic but that doesn't obligate me to not speak out against decisions I disagree with.  Same for anyone else.

jrexilius
jrexilius 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR Hmm, that is almost three questions rolled into one. 

 

The first part is yes, we can, and other countries can and do, influence other countries in our (their) favor.  The follow on questions to that are very valid:  how? how well?  We screw some of those up at times.  But so have the Brits, the Soviets, the Spaniards, Japan, Germany and just about everyone who has tried.  The moral question of "should we" is tough and I can see both answers to that.  In either case we are in a position where we need to, so the answer is nearly moot.

 

The next bit "to what extent" and "for how long" is the devil in the implementation details.    I am, contrary to what you may think, very much in favor of "as minimal" and "as brief" as possible. But that bit is always a case by case kinda thing.

 

The last bit is the real kicker.  Unlike 30 or more years ago, we as a country have a very low engagement rate with self governance yet at the same time have orders of magnitude more transparency.  Mass communications combined with wealth and comfort have put any democratic government, especially ours, into positions where they can't really manage both public whims and the real world.  Look at Greece if you need a pointed example.  We aren't that far away.

 

So my opinion, is that yes, we can and need to engage, it should be as minimal as possible, but no we can't always count on the public supporting it. 

 

Somewhere along the way we've forgotten that we actually live in a republic and that we choose leaders to specialize in making decisions about very complex things on our behalf.  And sometimes unpopular decisions need to be made.  We don't allow for that anymore. When you led a group of men were you always in a position to make the popular decision?

 

Powers
Powers 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR Thanks for posting this kind of articles Jack and the rest of the SOFREP staff, it's really changing my perspective of America. Thank you

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Powers I sometimes think we are following the old British Model.  "The sun never sets" and all that. 

Conversely  Laissez Faire will only go so far. 

 

At the end of the 19th Century we tried really hard to ignore the rise of Japan, we halfheartedly followed their growth.  Those in the know tried to help plan, but for the most part until the full on Manchurian annexation the US tried like hell to look the other way.  Remember how well that turned out? 

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts

Thank you!  I don't ever think I've had so much fun keeping up on important issues and coming from people who say what I've been wondering about!

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I learn so much from these posts.  I was really behind the curve about this Kony stuff except I'd see some friends occasionally post things on FB.  The Wiki Leaks document was extremely well written but to this day it seriously gives me the heebie-jeebies to have docs marked top/bottom.  At least this was only conf.  In my years at work I don't think I ever saw that low a classification with NOFORN.  I think I'll rent or buy "Wag the Dog."

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Jack, While we fiidle with AFRICOM, why do we neglect SOUTHCOM? Its just something that bothers me. For any of the same reasons, minus the Kony storyline, we could be vesting ourselves in SOUTHCOM. Resources, dual oceans etc, some friendly populations, some quasi friendly populations and the resident DB dictator sitting on oil. I know you have some experience in Columbia Etc but is 7th Group and or any of the TFs dedicated to SOCSOUTH getting any of the same resources we seem to be willing to use in Africa?

MedicSteve2
MedicSteve2 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@ArcticWarrior Just returned yesterday from SOUTHCOM's AOR, and totally agree!

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior I know from my experience in Venezuela that not all of the population there is pro Castro/ Chavez.  There are a lot of locals that are pro US down South.

Mitra
Mitra 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Old PH2  @ArcticWarrior I grew up in Trinidad which neighbours Venezuela. I can confirm that there are a lot of people in that area that are pro US. 

ajkmidget96
ajkmidget96 5pts

 @Mitra  @Old PH2  @ArcticWarrior i was in Nicaragua, and was amazed how pro us everyone was, despite the contras.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @Old PH2  @ArcticWarrior I think Kissenger is infamous for saying something like, history is not made by the south.  I don't really agree and personally I love hanging out down in Central America but SOUTHCOM is an area we can afford to ignore in some people's opinion.  Personally, I think Mexico is a huge concern.  I'm writing about this in my next novel.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts

 @katgirl231

 Its true, Gila Bend is in a bad spot. In between the 8 and 10 you are guarenteed to see BP Checkpoints and that is far from the border. And in Organ Pipe yes there are signs warning people, which is a shame because its gorgeous down there.

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  Just Read that Mr. Kissinger just received the full TSA gropefest.  What are they thinking?  Henry Kissinger is nearly 90!!!  What a threat!

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior where my parents' were interned in Gila Bend, AZ is apparently really dangerous right now and there are gov't warning signs everywhere.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior or a group jet ski trip on Lake Falcon with a bunch of Barretts on overwatch.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR I had my first huge eye opener about Mexico when I had the ExecProt/HighRisk course sing the owner does a lot of work in both Mexico and Lebanon.  I studied more and was horrified that there seems to be an agreement between the US and Mexico not to scare tourists away by revealing just how bad it is there, or you can be driving your family next to a truck full of RPGs.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Old PH2

 We can do the Phx Tuc smugglers corridor, you would feel right at home in the terrain. Granted it was 105 today but its educational, all the "Coyotes" running around etc. The 287Gs tend to at the moment only be concerned with, making money and turf battles back home. Like I said, at the moment.

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @ArcticWarrior  Forgot EarPro and heard ringing for another three days after the falls.  Still just gorgeous!!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @Old PH2 That sounds good to me!

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @JackMurphyRGR  Took a three day liberty and flew with a USO tour to see Angel Falls, between that and Rio South America was really good to me.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Old PH2

 Come on down to the Border, we can go "hiking" down in Coronado Natl Monument if you would like to do some war tourism ; )

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Old PH2  @ArcticWarrior PS: Yes, 7th SFG and SEALs are all over the place down there.

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