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Home » USASOC » A Female CST and Special Forces Enabler Speaks Out

A Female CST and Special Forces Enabler Speaks Out

by Jack Murphy · June 18, 2012 · Posted In: USASOC
cst-sof-sofrep
First could you explain some of your background to us. Years in service, rank, MOS, deployment locations, units deployed with, other pertinent details…

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  • SOFREP’s 2012 Greatest Hits #6: A Female CST and Special Forces Enabler Speaks Out
  • The Inconvenient Truth About Women and Combat (Part 1)
  • SOFREP’s 2012 Greatest Hits #3: The First Female Navy SEAL

I spent 12-years in the Army Reserves (1982-1994), took a 14-year break, and joined the National Guard in 2008. While in the Reserves, I served basically as a generator repair tech, and when I joined the Guard, I reclassed as an MP with a focus on combat operations (no L&O beyond MP school). My civilian profession was in law wherein I worked as a Paralegal. After approximately 12-years as a Paralegal, I went back to school to complete my BS program and received my degree in Criminal Justice. Following the completion of my BS program, I spent nearly a year on the South West Border Mission through the Joint Narco-Terrorism Task Force. Additionally, I possess a minor in legal studies and a BS in criminal justice.

My military career can be broken down as follows:

1982-1985 – Assigned to the 50th General Hospital out of Yakima, WA as a generator repair tech.

1985-1988 – Assigned to the 461ts Engineer’s out of Cheyenne, WY as a pipe layer.

1988-1994 – Assigned to the 403rd Combat Support Hospital out of Phoenix, AZ, mainly as a driver’s training instructor and generator repair tech.

2008-Present – Assigned to the 856 MP Company out of Phoenix, AZ as an MP 2011-2012 – Served as a CST assigned to 3SFG in Afghanistan

The training I received during my first three-years back in the military proved to be invaluable during my deployment as an SF enabler as did the training I received at Bragg in preparation for my deployment. The training I received at the unit level includes but is not limited to:

  • CQB/Room Clearing
  • Search & Seizure
  • TCP/Check Points
  • Combatives
  • UH-60 Insertions/Extractions & Patient Hot Loads
  • Various Small Arms & Crew Serve Weapons Systems (M4, M9, M203, M249, M240B/L, MK19, & .50 cal)
  • Reflexive Fire Drills
  • Mounted & Dismounted patrols/IMT
  • ASV (M1117) Training (train the trainer)
  • Drivers Vision Enhancement “DVE” training (train the trainer)
  • Limited K-9 Training
  • Limited EOD Training
  • Blue Force Tracker
  • Mine Sweep (train the trainer)
  • Certified Squad Designated Marksman (only female) in my BN
  • Information Exchange Program with Kazakhstan Nationals/AZ SPP in both AZ and Kazakhstan
  • CLS

Following A&S, the training I received at Bragg in preparation for my deployment included but is not limited to:

  • Weapons (M4, M9, M203, M249, M240B/L MK19, .50 cal,)
  • Dismounted patrols/IMT
  • Vehicle Training (MATV, RG33, RG31)
  • Rollover Training
  • Palantir, CIDNE, Share Point
  • CERP
  • Culture and Language (Pashto)
  • Tactical Questioning
  • Tactical Movements
  • General Medical
  • Communications (Thales)
  • Combatives
  • Scenario training
  • Reporting (Sitreps and Storyboards)

While at the firebase, I also received limited training on the Mini Gun, awesomeness!

My current rank is SSG/E6.

The deployment I recently returned from was my first and I was deployed to Afghanistan (southeast). Though I cannot disclose whom I was attached to, I can say I was attached to a 1st Group ODA for a brief period of time and then a 3rd Group ODA for the remainder of my deployment.

What type of patrols did you go out on and what was your duty position and responsibilities?

We went out on both mounted and dismounted patrols. We conducted clearings some of which were conducted in the local villages. During missions, I was part of the security element and when engaged, fought side-by-side with the team.

After proving myself to be a capable soldier, I was viewed as such, which meant I was not seen as a female that needed to be protected (I was not a distraction on the battlefield). Additionally, as a CST, my partner and I conducted female engagements.

What is it like going out on patrol as a female soldier with Infantry and Special Forces soldiers who are exclusively male? Does it make a difference or is it just a part of the job?

Going out on patrols with the guys was awesome! I would rather work with a bunch of “Type-A” males then a bunch of females any day! It’s pretty easy to get along with these types of guys, you just have to know how to roll with shit and make sure you’ve got thick skin, very thick skin. Now I’m not saying it’s all puppies and sunshine, to the contrary, you better bring it and if you suck at life, you’re screwed, I’ve seen it!

Lately there has been a lot of debate about putting female soldiers in direct combat roles, such as in the Infantry and in Special Operations units. What is your take on this? Is it appropriate to put women in the line of fire alongside the men?

There will always be debate about women in direct combat roles, but let’s think about that one for a minute, what the hell do people think women have been doing since 9/11? Female MP’s, FET’s, CST’s, etc., they’ve been serving in that role. And even more importantly, let’s not forget our CST sisters who lost her life on 22 October 2011 while serving in direct combat.

Most people tend to give knee-jerk reactions to this subject, which drives me crazy! I guess I can’t fault them for being ignorant on just what women like myself have been doing I mean if they haven’t had the opportunity to work with us, how would they know what our capabilities are, right?

I’ve read many opinions on the matter and the majority of them are extremely subjective as opposed to being objective but I guess that’s what an opinion is, it’s generally based on subjectivity.

What I tire of reading are the ridiculous comments about how men and women cannot fight side-by-side because of a man’s natural instinct to want to protect women. Well, if that’s the case then they have failed as a soldier because when we put that uniform on we’re all soldiers.

The other ridiculous argument is the problem of sex. Men seem to think that women serving in these roles would only exacerbate the problem of men and women engaging in sex during deployments. Well, I have a newsflash for them, people are going to have sex regardless of what capacity their serving in, it happens all the time. It’s a human element that you’re never going to get rid of and if you can’t have a “relationship” with someone and still do your job, then again, you have failed as a soldier.

Everyone should be capable of separating personal from professional, but remember, the operative word here is “should.” That being said hell yes it’s appropriate to put women in the line of fire alongside men, but it has to be capable women. You can’t put just any female in that capacity, they have to be capable of doing the job and doing it proficiently.

As far as allowing women into the infantry, Rangers or SF, I have mixed opinions on this one. I believe if women can do the job just as well as men, then why not? We cannot, however, expect any concessions to be made for these women. They have to be held to the same standard as their male counterparts.

Discussing women in such capacities makes me think about how race in the military was once a closely related issue/topic. Let’s not forget that not too long ago, race was the determining factor on what role an individual would serve in the military and we’ve thankfully gotten past that.

I believe at this juncture, that female enablers are definitely the way to go. I mean we’re all aware that we’re fighting a war in a country that does not allow males to engage the female population thereby leaving at least 50% of the population untapped. Female enablers such as CST’s can prove to be invaluable as we are capable of not only engaging 100% of the population (men, women, & children), we are also capable of fighting side-by-side with our male counterparts as has been proven.

Perhaps the biggest argument against having women in combat arms roles is that they lack the size and strength of their male counter parts.

Is it realistic to place female soldiers in a situation where they will have to keep up with male soldiers in eighty pounds of equipment or where they may have to throw a 200 pound man (plus kit) over their shoulder in a fireman’s carry?

This is a valid argument. I realize in the infantry one is required to carry upwards of 80 pounds or more while under movement but as mentioned previously, if a woman can effectively perform at this level and keep up, then I say why not. I believe there probably are women that can in fact carry a 200-pound man, but they’re likely few and far between. I do have to say though that I highly doubt every male in the infantry can perform at this level.

Much like anything else, why not conduct a pilot program and see how it goes? How will we know if we don’t give it a try? But again, the standards have to remain the same for women.

A secondary argument against having women on the front lines is anatomical. Sorry to go down this road, but there are some folks who make it sound like female plumbing requires more hours of maintenance than a V-22 Osprey.

Is there any truth to the argument that female anatomy prohibits women from spending long periods of time in the field?

Ah yes, how did I forget to address this one earlier. This one makes me laugh. Baby wipes work just as well for us as they do our male counterparts.

The other concern is the monthly visit from “Ant Flo.” In this day and age, women are able to rid themselves of that annoying monthly visit and most do.

I personally do not believe that just because I am a female I cannot spend as much time in the field as a male, that’s just a silly, archaic way of thinking.

Now I know for a fact there are women in the military that play that very card when forced to be in the field for extended periods of time, but I’m pretty sure these particular women aren’t going to be the one’s pushing for a position in the infantry or SOF community. It takes a certain type of woman just as it takes a certain type of man to serve in these types of roles.

Another secondary argument focuses around the disarray that can be created by throwing a woman into the mix with a bunch of red blooded twenty-something year old soldiers deployed for long stretches in combat situations. Was this ever an issue in your experience? If so, how did you handle it?

I briefly addressed this earlier – this is a valid concern and not just with the twenty-something’s, it’s an issue straight across the board and involves individuals of all ages.

Let’s just say this wasn’t an issue per se in my experience but I stand firm on my belief that whenever you place males and females in a combat situation, the human element is going to exist (think about the hormonal escalation that comes with a high op tempo setting) and you just have to be able to separate personal from professional and you have to be mature enough not to let the situation cause upset within your deployment setting.

I guess this is just one that is going to require a lot of strong leadership to keep things in check. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not saying it’s okay to engage in such relationships, I’m just saying it’s going to happen regardless.

A big concern among the Ranger community is the perception that allowing female soldiers to attend Ranger School will erode the standards and make the school essentially worthless by significantly decreasing the physical and tactical threshold needed for graduation. Is this a valid concern?

Yes, this is a valid concern. We cannot lower the standards just for the sake of having women in this community, as there is too much at risk. If for example I became a Ranger and my training was less than my male counterparts, how could I say I was their equal? Make sense? I can’t say it enough we cannot make concessions for women who want to become Rangers. They must be held to the same standards as men otherwise they become a risk as opposed to an asset.

Many of us believe that the Army as an institution does not have the morale fortitude to stand by the standards and hold women equally accountable. Will the Army drop standards to unacceptable levels to fill a certain quota of female soldiers for political reasons.

If this happens, I think it does a disservice to both male and female soldiers, not to mention that it is criminally negligent to intentionally make a unit less combat effective for political reasons. How can this be prevented? [I know this question is a little unfair, I'm asking you as a soldier more so than as a woman]

I honestly hope this is not the case. If the Army does not have the moral fortitude to stand by the standards and hold women equally accountable, women should not be allowed to serve in these roles. There is no room for politics such as this on the battlefield as it will only get people killed, period! If this does in fact happen, it will be an epic fail on the Army’s part. Again, there’s just too much at risk!

As far as how something like this can be prevented goes, man, I wish I had the answer. I sincerely hope that this entire matter is taken seriously and that those responsible have the wherewithal to realize what’s truly at risk if the standards are in fact lowered.

What advice would you give to a young woman thinking about joining the Army and wanting to carry a rifle in combat?

This is such an exciting time for women in the military! There are so many opportunities available now that weren’t just a few years ago. As far as advice goes, I guess that would depend on the type of individual they are and what they’re looking to get out of joining.

Something that many individuals (men and women alike) don’t think about is what it truly means to be a U.S. soldier and what they’re promising to do as such. Once they’ve wrapped their head around that and if they’re still interested in joining I’d tell them, “go for it!”

Here’s an example of a dialogue I might have with a young woman thinking about joining the Army:

Think about what it is you want to do in the military, do your research and then go for it. Be the best you can at everything you’re tasked with and make sure to force yourself to step outside your comfort zone as often as possible.

Your opportunities are endless and never limit yourself based on your gender. As a U.S. soldier you will carry a weapon (or two) so make sure you know everything about that weapon and more importantly, make sure you know how to use it because it may very well save your or someone else’s life one day.

I would then explain to them my experiences in the military and of course would go into great detail about the program (CST) I am proud to be a part of.

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Mi6lethaltool
Mi6lethaltool 5pts

Pssss Call me ;)

echo6sierra
echo6sierra 5pts

Rule #2: Any commenter who dares to question this awesome woman and all of her accomplishments is a stupid troll. Has the crowd from John Scalzi's blog moved here for a couple days?

Androus
Androus 5pts

Nice story, and I respect what this lady has accomplished, but it is incredibly foolish to generalize anything from this rather unique case. The fact that she is doing all of this, and is 48 years old (which I gathered from the dates indicated in the story) makes it even more remarkable. But putting women in combat in any kind of generalized and widespread way would be just about the stupidest thing our armed forces have ever done. I am so fed up with the systematic undermining of gender roles in this country over the last 50 years. It's no coincidence that our culture and society began to degenerate rapidly during the same time frame.

echo6sierra
echo6sierra 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

This article is pretty sad. I am disappointed to see a lot of men who seem to be pretty hard core warriors falling all over themselves to white knight and kiss the rear end of the article's subject. This is what arsof was talking about. JeffreyCarr basically called him an idiot for pointing that out, but here we have it. Hundreds of guys from all over the military rushing to protect this woman from all the nasty, crude, and hateful insults. If

 

I am not very high on the bad ass scale. I was just a platoon sergeant and a radio technician, but despite the lack of credentials, I can recognize the situation a mile away, and have seen it in person. Several commenters have screamed that you are a failure if you can't act professionally around women, when there is one in your unit, and you haven't seen an American woman for months. This lady looks like she is in pretty good shape, and not bad looking, so guess what? Just like this comment field, these same guys that say it doesn't happen are making it happen. The operators she was attached to were probably smart enough not to ruin their careers, but most men ages 18-22 use their other head most of the time.

 

This woman is a wedge. Since she can "do the job", so can all the women in this country. They will flood into the infantry units, whose commanders will be threatened with the loss of their careers if these women wash out. They will ensure the women don't wash out, BAMN. What do we end up with? A useless fighting force.

 

I wonder if this woman ever engaged any Taliban in hand to hand combat? Any up close fighting? Ground fighting?

 

But whatever, JeffreyCarr. I don't know anything. I am just a neanderthal who is enlightened enough to march into the glorious future.

Antibomber
Antibomber 5pts

Well isn't this special. But is it really necessary? Do we NEED women in combat forces? This shouldn't be an issue of equality to make some women feel important. We are talking about killing people. Lots of people. Some of the toughest tough-guys don't handle it very well. This SHOULD be about making our combat forces better. And sending women downrange does not make an improvement to combat effectiveness worth the trouble. Now whats going to happen is this; they've opened the door and as of yet haven't reduced the standards but we all know how that will go; not 'enough' will make the cut and so they will lower those standards until the civilian 'social engineers' who are destroying our DoD have their ideal numbers. Those numbers will equal more casualties in the current and future conflicts.

fulfilledmama
fulfilledmama 5pts

 @Antibomber More casualties in confidence & morals, as well.  That was very well put, Antibomber. TY!

KGR
KGR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

She was probably assigned to a FET (Female Engagement Team) on a SFAT team which are attached as conventional units to a VSP pgm. This does not make her a operator.

 

LouCollins
LouCollins 5pts

I want to be her, when I grow up :)

NikitaSamuelle
NikitaSamuelle 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Ths training is nothing more than any of  us, male or female, has gone through.  This woman is exaggerating her skills and experience.  She will not show her face, nor give her name.  I understand that in certain MOSs.  But she is an MP.   She has a badge, she is obligated to show it upon request and ID herself.  She is not a high speed '007' type of gal as she insinuates. She is an SF wannabe.  Pipe dreams.  I have not seen any SF people she supposedly supported verify her contributions to their missions.

 

BLACK ACTUAL
BLACK ACTUAL 5pts

 @NikitaSamuelle   Are you a troll?  If so, you have a badge and you are obligated to show it upon request and ID yourself.    Drop and start pushing until I see this here water bottle start to sweat...then find the door, exit smartly and dont let it hit you in the ass on the way out. 

NikitaSamuelle
NikitaSamuelle 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I am an MP, but "cannot disclose who I was attched to."  BS.  SF has no use for MPs.  I think they can take care of their own, sister.  I would love to interrogate/debrief you on your SF experiences.  Except for the fact that it would be a waste of time.  It  would just be for my own amusement.  I won't lie. 

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STTAB
STTAB 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Bobbi1 Sarcasm noted, it was still a flippant comment. Recognizing you are human would include the realization that you can't do the job of an infantryman. If females were capable, the human race would of intigrated the fighting roles in the stoneages. And when it comes down to brass tacks, thats what the infantryman's fight is like. Just a bunch of cavemen beating on each other. I know a 240 lbs man who had the fight of his life trying to kill a 140 lbs BG with his bare hands. So if this bear of a man, expert in hand to hand had trouble, do you know of a female that wouldn't? It's like the unicorn. I keep hearing of this mythical woman but haven't met her. I'm sorry, but if your patrol doesn't include a ruck and sleeping in the woods it ain't a patrol. Call me old fashioned. But that's besides the point. At any time on this patrol did you carry the machine gun? Did the TS put you at the front of a stack on a night time raid? How many times were you asked to walk point. You may want to deny you had a babysitter, but you did. I know for a fact that team never left you out of eyesight. Like I said before I may not of deployed with you, but you must assume I know someone who has. The SF community is a small one.

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STTAB
STTAB 5pts

 @Bobbi1 A complement is a complement.  On the contrary you where the one slinging insults.  I would hope you are professional enough to separate the praise for the job you performed, from the criticism of your comments in the second half of the article.  Your reaction is something I would expect from a private.

Bobbi1
Bobbi1 5pts

@STTAB @Bobbi1

STTAB
STTAB 5pts

Bobbi, first you need to take a compliment when it's given.  Second, if you want to drop all decorum, I'm fine with that also.  You claim you have tough skin from, "working with the boys" you should show it.  I have total respect for your contributions and think you deserve praise for putting your self into harms way.  Early on in the wars females got stuck in engagements.  You volunteered knowing the dangers.  That still doesn't change my argument.  I've been fighting these wars from the begining and I've seen it all.  To this day I have never met a female that can do my job.  You assume a lot of who I am in your comments.  If I didn't serve with you, you should assume I know someone who has.  I have served with CST, plenty of them.  Heck, I served with CST before it was called CST.  I also know the people that trained you.  They will all say, at best you are trained to the point were you are not a liability.  So don't preach about how ignorant I am.  I have served with multiple females in my career.  That's why my comments may not be as harsh as Eric_Stratt.  I have personally been in combat with women that shoot, move, and communicate; and can best me at skills.  I have been in fights with females that actually shot their rifle and hit what they were shooting at.  I am personal freinds with a female soldier that can squat a brick building.  But, each and every one of them are humble enough to know they can't do my job.  When I mentioned the Marine Corps program it was in reference to the experiment of putting females through officer infantry basic.  Two candidates and two failures.  I know two is a small sampling but it has been tried before and failed.  Ranger school RI's have already been given threats that they WILL PASS any female candidates that attend future courses.  I saw the same attempt happen in the '90s.  Talk to RI's that were forced to instruct female DEA agents back then.  Everyone assumes the argument is over, but it has been going on for decades and has proven to be a failure every time.  So, I won't stop beating this horse.  The argument is not over, and screaming louder (in your case, fouler) doesn't help.

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Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts

@Bobbi1 I hate one thing about livefyre, any conversation you post on you ALWAYS get updates. Ususlly just delete on some topics, but saw the poster and had to read it and after reading it I had to comment. CSTs are value added? How so? Women are not valued in Afghanistan, I keep hearing about all this "great intel" and yet never see or heard directly of any great leads generated via CSTs in a society that females dont hold a lot of influence. What is "so yesterday?" That you as a female have never been made to meet the same standards? That there are real differences between the genders? That females are given quotas? That CST "selection" is not that hard? That CSTs dont really do anything different than a CA? That CSTs or CAs wont be "value added" until they have actual intensive, long term language and cultural training for a specific region? That they need to have some sort of OBGYN and/or 68w level training to be "value added"? Or perhaps its the constant politics involved in the incredible double standards when it comes to women in the service? They are already prepping Ranger School for you and some hand selected, well prepped "candidates" who will have monitors getting daily updates on them from the Cadre. I predict a 50% pass rate for thr females in the first class. So don't worry, you are here to stay, but its not because you are meeting the standards or value added, its because you are a political cause. CSTs/FETs or CAs will be value added when they adopt a goal and AOR focus, they are not value added in OEF due to their cuurent make up, training and the culture they are working in. I swear, everyone of you I have met to date starts off the same, first words at the last "best practices" out of one was "we do not have a political agenda". Next words? "We go through a rigorous selection process and train to shoot, move and communicate so we can support the operators" I am sure I paraphrased a little bit, but those were two CSTs talking on a board just like that. I was still wondering "what is it ya say you do here?"

Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts

Oh, so there is no confusion for some, when I say "women are not valued in Afghanistan", its in ref to the Afghan culture.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@Bobbi1 Hey Lady, if anyone took the time to read the comments they would realize All the negativity was posted long ago and meant squat. I for one am glad you responded to our calls to come and comment again, and appreciate your sacrifice as an individual with combat experience as so many here don't have. Your last comment was spot on! You tell it like you experienced and many of us will listen. For your future mission, Godspeed and be safe, drop us a line, lot of Respect here....6

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STTAB
STTAB 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ACS Touche.  Stay safe out there.

STTAB
STTAB 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 ACS, as I recall, you made the first mention of testicles.  Not me.  I was just rubbing that fact in. 

 

There goes that phrase again.  We fought "side-by-side".  My experience is that phrase means you had a baby-sitter that shadowed your every move.  When he moved, you moved.  When he shot, you shot.  I know exactly what you mean by "conducted clearings" also.  Mounted and dismounted patrols means you rode in the back of a truck and did a little bit of walking to boot.  Danger is a subjective thing.  Anyone who is so flippant as to say their upcoming deployment is a "vaca" and can't wait to get back into it has never seen the ugliest side of combat.  I rank it right up with those guys who "want to get their kill on" (actual quote).   Believe me, when you catch up to that white whale, it will humble you.

 

So to answer your question, YES.  It does not prove a thing beyond the facts that are stated.  Sounds like she did a great job providing support to her ODA's.  But it does not prove she can do my job.

STTAB
STTAB 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 ACS, If this was only a recount of her experience I wouldn't have an issue.  The vast majority of the peice deals with her opinions on females in combat.  The rest of the story is your typical chest thumping.  Myself and the rest of her detractors are just calling out that fact.  I can quote it if you want me to, but it's easier to just scroll up.  I made great efforts to validate her value as a member of the SOF community.

At no time did I whip out my testicles.  Pointing out that I may actually know better than her, is what it is.  At no time did I compare her experience to mine.  I can't, because I have said testicles.  Any ball swinging you may have percieved is due to your own bias. 

I'm just making the point that her experience does not prove that females are capable of front line combat. 

 

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Recon6 @Bobbi1 Very well said 6, Bobbi - quite an endorsement when 6 puts his word behind ya. I echo the sentiments. (BTW - 6, r u gonna package all your experiences up in an e-book for all of us? Been 40+ years and we do not want to have your life story ride off into the sunset to put it mildly)

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@ColonelProp Thanks for the rec's Col ! I simply try to add the more 'humerous' episodes I encountered. For the more 'serious' minded I direct people to John Meyer's accounts. I might entertain the idea tho, as I have always said, I served with some Hero's and some of it was funny shit, lol....tks....6

STTAB
STTAB 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

First, my hat's off to CST elements in the SOF community.  Value added.  The argument for women in combat is another argument all together.  If you ever notice, any time a female talks about being in an engagement they say, "fought side by side", "fought along side", "we got into a fire fight".  You don't hear much, "I grabbed the SAW off the dead Private and charged the machine gun nest", "I tossed a grenade into the bunker", "We IMT'd up to the cave entrance".  AFN loops a commercial about a female that recieved the silver star for doing nothing more than reacting to contact.  I know men who have fought for their lives against a numerically superior force who get a pat on the back when awarded an ARCOM with V.  As far as Ranger School.  Talk to the old timers about how Airborne School changed when they allowed females to attend.  It used to be the most physically demanding course in the army.  The argument of if they maintain the same standards will notwork.  Ask the Marine Corp.  Their experiment in social engineering had a 100% failure rate.

EricCarr1
EricCarr1 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

First of all, I'm a US Army combat veteran. With that out of the way: I can see an advantage to having females in Special Operations and other combat roles, and if SF guys were happy to fight alongside this woman; who am I to protest? Much of what we do in combat is more mental than physical anyway. Also, she said she doubted that every single infantryman could perform at the level we always use as an example of why women can't be in combat. Carrying your 200 pound buddy and his gear, for instance. Well, she's right. A lot of guys get through Basic and find out later they don't have what it takes to be effective in combat. And I also agree that the standards for men and women must be equal. What pisses me off is that a lot of the women screaming about equality in the military would not want to be in combat themselves. They have no idea what it means to sweat and bleed and kill for your buddies and your country. So, kudos to you, lady!

michaelbdasilva
michaelbdasilva 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

i still reckon that she is hot and can probably out shoot, out drink and out screw many males in the military. this woman rocks! say what you will but she is there and walks the walk in boots and not in pumps. the point is being lost and old ways of thinking are being forwarded here. The most important thing for a woman to understand is that if they are ever captured, they must accept that the enemy will do things to them for many long hours. they are at a disadvantage in this aspect. the enemy will rape them till the cows come home and then get the cows to rape her further.a woman in battle is at a huge risk but she is an asset in the right light or situation. this being that she can play an important role in extracting info that men would not be able to. the Russians perfected this strategy.

 

personally, a woman like this one gives me a woody especially when she`s whacking insurgents or simply firing her weapon. she be a yummy mummy.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @katgirl231    Kathy, you are back!!  I have sent emails to you!  Hope you are doing well and Welcome Back   R6

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts

 @Bobbi1 ya i am clueless that's funny. I'm speaking from what i have seen and know because i have worked with cst and do know several cst members and no i am not an enabler attached to another unit this is all facts from SOF units. hell a lot of the time there is only one officer out there and he is needed to sit back and approve things so no they are not in harms way most of the time. so further more to answer your question i am speaking from a SOF back round and point of view and in fact know what i'm talking about

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @DropTheHammer  @Bobbi1   Bro, no one is doubting Your service, only that you dumped on Bobbi's experiences.  Anyone in combat knows there are individual experiences and not a "one size fits all" for combat vets.  This subject was pounded ad nauseum during the blog and we at SOFREP accept Bobbi for what She experienced!  She brought an insight many of us old timers had not known about.  All I ask is giver her her due, she Totally Rocks!     R6

Gunner777
Gunner777 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @DropTheHammer  @Bobbi1 You know what, it's not just females or CST's. There are males/females in any MOS you care to name that are screwups that everyone else has to carry. Lets not put Bobbi1 or anyone in that screwup category when we haven't seen them in the field.

Like I said in an earlier post I've worked with females I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for while others I'd rather have as a backup than some males I know.

 

Bobbi1
Bobbi1 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @DropTheHammer Hammer, I'll agree that there are those out there that just plan suck at life and would love to give you a prime example, but I have to remain professional and not call anyone out. It get's me fired up when people try to make blanket statements about programs such as this [CST]. I at no time said everyone performed in a kick-ass manner because I didn't serve with them and therefore could not make such a statement.  What I can say is; however, what you described is completely off the mark regarding what I did. I was just as much in harms way on the missions we went out on collectively as anyone else, period.  

Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Bobbi1  @DropTheHammer Also, as a side note-"I was just as much in harms way on the missions we went out on collectively as anyone else, period."

Were you the first one through the door? Were you directing a fire team? Were you placing a breach charge? Manning a ladder on a wall of a compound? etc.....? If not, then what you were doing is essentially what a convoy driver does, you had a great fear of IEDs and it is still a legitimate fear but you were not getting after it. 

Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @DropTheHammer Drop, was not questioning if you are a male member of the unit were doing that, question was directed at Bobbi1. If you are a SOF cat, I know what the deal is, heck, if your a grunt I know what the deal is. It is the FETs and CSTs attempting to parlay their use as enablers (which is of limited use in the first place) into somehow that equating to being able to open the doors for women in direct combat units. 

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Eric_Strattoniii   like i was saying there are some people who do things different. then where i am. like the regular military or maybe some other SOF groups this is from my experience. and yes i was the first in and climbed breached and all the above its my job and i love doing it. and for the most part i don't know one person who is afraid for there life while doing it we all would step on each other to get the first shots off. i mean its if SOF

Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Bobbi1  @DropTheHammer Bobbi1, that is fine if you were just relating your experience in this article but you were in fact advocating for women to be allowed into combat roles, something that even if your experience was as good as you say it was does not equate to validating that position. 

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Bobbi1 now that is not saying what you have done is different because it might be and bravo for you then but this is going of what i have seen. hell one didn't even know how to work her NOD's and when asked how she liked going out for the first time responded with i met my goals of not puking or falling down so seems different from what you must have done and your work ethic

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts

i am just going to point out that the CST program and this is kinda funny. Because the women who do go out with all the spec ops units stay in the back of the fight with the officers they are really not on the front lines they are not on any teams kicking down doors or assaulting through the enemy hell the CST commander put out strict guidance that they are not even allowed to go on missions where they have to do long movements, fast rope, or if contact is likely or expected. oh and they don't carry any equipment except there own so they have no weight. hell i could care less if a woman can do all the stuff i did to get where i'm at then ok. but the SOF community has seen more problems then anything with the CST program and the only reason men cant talk to woman is because of officers who are far removed from the fight. when we can because CST cant come we usually get just as much info if not more. i have seen CST's sleep with men and there partner cst gets mad because she liked that guy and goes and rats her out and gets every one in trouble. and this happens a lot so once again why deal with that stuff. 

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @DropTheHammerOfficers far removed from the fight?  Uh, you mean like the BN commander and or his staff or the PL or Co CO?  You might be surprised to know there's A LOT more enlisted men and NCOs with them.  You make it sound like they are strap hangers.

 

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts

 @majrod ya the enlisted guys you are talking about are called enablers and alot of the time there was only one officer on the ground and for the most part they hang back a little ant pass up SIT REPS while the main body/ line guy are fighting the fight they have an important job so they try and stay out of the way with the enablers until the problem is solved. yes they are still in danger but they are not kicking doors and clearing compounds with us. is what i am getting at here

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts

 @majrod ya but they have been on 12-15 deployments and up they know whats going on out there and control and keep everything moving out there  and officers well they haven not  nearly as many. One maybe 2 if there lucky hell our PL's are captains and we still see them as cherry. on the ground any spec ops unit is NCO ran officers give us our left and right limit and send up reports. and ya there are a lot of guys NCOs who are not on the line any more but there are also 40 to more of them out there. Like i have said before i think we have a different idea of danger

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @DropTheHammer

Having been an Infantry officer i understand what you are saying.  If an officer is shooting it's not a good sign.  I also know the PL & CO ALWAYS move to where the action is hottest exposing themselves contrary to what enablers or even the fellow members of a platoon do. 

 

Equating the two does a diservice to the leaders in the Ranger Reg't.  You can make you point without singling out "officers' especially since there are as many if not more enlisted & NCO whose duties keep them out of the point man's job (e.g the PSG and 1SGT) that you fail to mention. 

Bobbi1
Bobbi1 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @DropTheHammer Dude, you are completely clueless on this one! Have you been out there working with the CST's? Are you an Operator or SOF Enabler? And who are these "officers" you're referring to that "they" stay back with, hahaha?  Sounds like you're referring to a conventional movement.  If you have worked with CST's then you can truly only speak to your experience(s) with them. You cannot  profess to know anything about what we did out there! I will tell you; however, that you are so far off the mark! I will agree that drama does ensue with some CST's, but really, you make it sound like it's one sided! Guys cause drama too (boy they ever!)! Lastly, I must ask, angry much?   

Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts

 @Bobbi1  @DropTheHammer Bobbi1, yeah, guys cause drama but do you honestly think the two are comparable or that the addition of a female into the unit does not change that group dynamic? 

As for being in the back, I have to assume he is talking about being in the C2 element instead of the assault element, it is where most enablers go and that is what you were, an enable. CSTs and FETs go in after the building/tgt is secure, they are not on the assault and the OIC/GFC is usually in the C2 element and if he is on the assault then he is wrong or things have gone horribly wrong. 

Eric_Strattoniii
Eric_Strattoniii 5pts

 @Bobbi1  @DropTheHammer Bobbi1. SOPs are SOPs. Spare me the BS that you are something special. You were a CST member who was not kicking down doors and clearing rooms on point, if you were, hey, color me shocked, you would be the first I know of who was doing that as member of an ODA team. Word spreads pretty fast in the SOF community and I assure you that the Officers would capitalize on you being "just like one of the guys" and making sure it got the attention of the various PAOs in whatever CJSOTF or SOTF they were at. I don't know everything bobbi1 but I am still in the game so I know enough to know when something is not right or something is out of place. So, EVERY team and every situation might be a little different but the basic culture and basic SOPs are almost always the same. SOPs may very Group to Group or in our case, Team to Team but they all come off the same baseline. 

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am sure you did your job as an enabler well and you might not have been like so many others I have seen, that is great, really. I remain a skeptic of any value added by CSTs or FETs and co-location them with any SOF unit or their actual value to the mission outside of MEDCAPs. Nothing you or some of your sycophants on here have given me reason to change that view except a lot of anecdotal "I have seen...(insert case of females who are awesome in the field here). 

I'll keep my skepticism and hope I live long enough to get past this madness that seems to be coming. 

Bobbi1
Bobbi1 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Eric_Strattoniii  @DropTheHammer Eric, I was being a smart-ass...I knew exactly what he was referring to and that's not how WE operated. I am so over trying to explain to the likes of you two that unless you were there with us, you cannot profess to know what we did nor how we operated. You two should really stop acting like you are the all knowing and refrain from speaking about things you were not a part of. I was there, you were not therefore, you cannot profess to know how we operated. EVERY team and every situation is different and clearly our team trusted us and our capabilities.  That is all...

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Bobbi1  @DropTheHammer   Bobbi, They keep coming at you!  I cannot understand how any warrior could doubt your post.  It was 'subjective' and portrayed Your experiences.  You explained, clearly, that others had different experiences.  To lump All CST's is a disservice to you and them.  Charley Mike   R6

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod Have plenty of women jokes too... I don't say them for the exact reason you listed above. I'll wait until a "fishing trip" for those usually. Never know who doesn't get that jokes are jokes... that's it. I feel the more absurd (read: offensive) they are the better attention it may bring to an injustice but that's just me.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts

 @majrod Oh don't even get me started on the portrayal of modern men as know-nothing, dolts stubbling through life and would never make it without the omniscient wisdom of their disproportionately beautiful wives (think King of Queens). First there was Archie Bunker (misogynistic) and then there was Deborah (equally misogynistic) from Everybody loves Raymond. Both in my view represent opposite extremes. Shows like Big Bang Theory is more my temperament, as it throws shit at both sexes. It also makes fun of nerds and dumbasses equally, without preference.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan

 Funny joke (really).  When guys make them they get called misogynist or get a sexual harrassment complaint.

 

Just a data point for reference.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @Bobbi1  @DropTheHammer

"Guys cause drama too (boy they ever!)!"

 

Exactly! I deal with men everyday who make me think "Dude, how in the hell have you made it this far with all the drama that comes with having to work with you!?" There are not too many women in the ship repair profession so I don't know how they make do. With that said, it's joke time! Some of you will like this and then some of you will hate on it but just take it with a grain of salt...

 

Q: Why are trees and men so similar?

 

A: They're never done growing up.

Bobbi1
Bobbi1 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @DropTheHammer Thanks R6! Goes to show just how ignorant people can be...

DropTheHammer
DropTheHammer 5pts

and I'm not trying to bash women in this I'm just saying there is a difference in being attached to a unit and moving in the headquarters  element in the back and being in the unit assaulting a compound or knocking out a bunker or being part of a maneuvering element to me that is the front lines

Bobbi1
Bobbi1 5pts

 @DropTheHammer Again dude, clueless... 

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