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Getting Shot At For $7.50 A Day

by Brandon Webb · June 28, 2012 · Posted In: AFSOC, MARSOC, NSWC, Special Operations, USASOC

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Brandon Webb

Brandon Webb is a former U.S. Navy SEAL with combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, and elsewhere in the Middle East. His last tour in the SEAL Teams was as the Course Manager for the US Navy SEAL Sniper program, arguably one of the most difficult sniper courses in the world. He was formerly a contributing editor for Military.com, and currently the Editor-in-Chief of SOFREP.com. Brandon is regularly featured in the media as a subject matter expert on military affairs. An avid writer, his last two books (The Red Circle, & Benghazi: The Definitive Report) both hit the New York Times best seller list, and his writing has been featured in print, and digital media worldwide. You can follow him on Twitter @BrandontWebb

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36 comments

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Canopylight

This is where Rangers get douched over. No special pays besides jump until you make E-5. An E-4 in the 82nd makes the same as a guy in the 75th. You're an e-4 handling demo? Yep still no demo pay.

SeanMiklas

4 Like

I quote one of Ranger Ups shirts. "Congress was meant to be a service and not a profession." I have never served but believe that our members should be able to live without having to rely on the government that they have sworn to protect. My 0.0002 cents

TheeSkipper

@BrandonTWebb this is getting overshadowed by the Affordable Care Act, but just as important http://t.co/IysNkcq7 #stolenvalor

Breach

Que in the BS Libertarian response, "Where will this money come from?"

jrexilius moderator

@Breach It's not a BS question and most Libertarians see the big bold words in the Constitution about national defense as being "in scope".

As a Libertarian-leaning citizen I say "hell yeah" to the intent of the article and would pay for it through reductions in social security/medicare and closing tax loopholes.

SocSec/Medicare (not in Constitution) = 43% of the entire US budget.

Defense (IN Constitution) = ~20%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png

Breach

1 Like

@jrexilius /stirring the pot - Yeah, is that how you'd do it? Tell me more.

Recon6 moderator

2 Like

@Breach @KineticFury @jrexilius Breach, sadly I concur.

The rape of America will continue because the individuals perpetrating this travesty are the same ones that would have to change it, and that they will never do. While America slept these insidious laws were enacted and now it is too late. Our children and grandchildren and theirs will pay for this for generations to come. The America I fought and bled for no longer exists.

Breach

2 Like

@Recon6 @KineticFury @jrexilius A revolution in the US would be wiped out quicker than a fresh box of Twinkees in the Biggest Loser house. When we had our revolution we didnt have NSA listening to our phone calls, drones flying over head or mass media. Revolutionaries in this country would quickly be made to seem like the people who are involved in the Michigan Militia or the Minutemen; that is to say, radicals who are just gun toting survivalist that spend all day in the wilderness shooting trees and playing Army.

The Tea Party was our closest chance at a revolution but a few people who couldn't not be racist in front of TV cameras for a day ruined it.

We've made our beds and now we have to lie in it. Have fun paying your taxes so that our politicians can get paid while they get lobbied by big business/China and for a night cap bang out their 23 year old assistant.

This is America.

Recon6 moderator

1 Like

@KineticFury @jrexilius I would become an American Revolutionary if I knew how!!! 6

KineticFury

2 Like

@jrexilius I'm trying to not say anything about our latest unwanted 'tax' increase that got redifined today.

Anybody remember the Boston Tea Party? We're about due for another one.

jrexilius moderator

@Breach In my defense, I was just presenting a problem and a solution as my 1st sgt told me those.. uhh decades? ago.

jrexilius moderator

4 Like

@Breach hehehe.. I'm sick of the women debates, lets have a tax debate. That'll keep everyone calm.

Rx4Nails

@LauraWalkerKC @SOFREP Are you freakin' kidding me? (know you're not.) This is outrageous! There is NO excuse to not pay them VERY well.

Old PH2 moderator

7 Like

I remember sitting down and crunching the numbers in 1991, an E-5 with over 6 years. Aircrew/Flight pay $150/ month, sea pay for E-5 over 4 years $150/month, Combat pay for Gulf War 1 $150/month. With my base pay it all bumped me up from $0.17 and hour to $0.23!!!! WoooHooo I'm fuckin' Midas!!!!

We obviously didn't do it for the money.

One thing that does chap my ass is a guy can put in 10-19 years service and get no retirement or benefits. How about throwing some kind of limited / prorated benefits to those guys? We still took the risks and many of us physically still carry the chronic injuries.

Recon6 moderator

2 Like

@Old PH2 PH, you make me sound Ancient, lol. $82.00 per month, $65 Jump Pay, $65 Combat Pay for an 11B ! Oh, and $10,000 in case of death in V.N. Wow

ColonelProp

3 Like

Pensions in the private sector are fast disappearing as well... So here is a start to a solution: 1) I have been in favor of 10% tax rate max across the board for everyone of voting age and higher, no deductions (same for US 100% based corporations) - the one exception is active duty military and those who are disabled from there service in the military, zero taxes on that pay. 2) A good (no USG beureaucrat managed fund, get the good finance guys to manage it - if they botch it, they may not want to face retired DEVGRU/Delta/Green Beret fellas over a "coffee discussion" on their incompetence), 100% match 401K for all service members, double the contribution amount allowed in the private sector. Payout is tax free at the point pensions kick in now if the person so desires. 3) Term limits on all congress-critters, 6 years in the House and Senate, 2 terms for the POTUS - when they get out no free healthcare and pension for life, they have to live within the framework they created while in office - maybe with the rules above they will go into service to get a better tax rate... Just my starting bit.

Ben K

@ColonelProp Why, especially, does the military need to be exempt from taxes? I agree that everyone of voting age or higher should be taxed, but I remain unconvinced that being in the military merits any special exemption from that.

Also, it's a globalized world nowadays. The only corporations that are 100% US-based are small businesses and they are the ones who will be hurt at the end of the day. If it's only 100% US-based companies, what's to stop a company from just making themselves 99% US-based and putting that 1% in the Cayman Islands, hypothetically?

ColonelProp

4 Like

@Ben K Thanks Ben, thoughtful response which I have heard many times. As to tax-free military pay I believe we as civilians ask for a blood-chit from our military to protect our freedoms doing things that can be construed as putting their immortal soul in jeapordy. It is the least we can do to not require taxes upon the pay they receive. Just as I will stand aside when I meet my maker for any soldier requesting passage, I will not ask the same soldier to give any more than their potential life while I am living. If injured during service that also excuses you from further participation with your disability pay. As to corporate taxes: 100% onshore gets you 10% taxes, any offshore gets you 90%. Three years to move onshore at zero taxes should be adequate enticement.

Ben K

@Old PH2 @ColonelProp Actually yeah, that's a point I hadn't considered. But if we consider the fact that all these salaries are in fact paid by the government and taxes go back to the government, then by that logic it should apply to anyone who works for the government, politicians included. Of course that could be counterbalanced by lowering pay and including other benefits, it seems like a reasonable compromise.

As for your solution to corporate taxes, I think it just ends up replacing one problem with another, namely that you drive away the multinational corps who would otherwise invest in America. Homegrown businesses are good. Having homegrown businesses and foreign investment is even better. Plus, I don't think corporations like [insert your favorite foreign car or arms manufacturer here] would appreciate being hit with a 90% corporate tax just for having an American office.

Old PH2 moderator

1 Like

@ColonelProp @Ben Another thing that really chapped my ass. Why should I as an employee of the USN pay taxes at all? It's like asking a man to pay his own salary. I don't care if your deployed or in CONUS every member of the US armed forces is a target and risks his/her life, the least we can do is absolve them of any tax burden.

Ask congress or the senate to self-fund a percentage of their own wages and see what happens.

AGL Bob

Why is it that government employees generally are on the high end of the pay scale but not the military? Could it be because the feeling is that for most it is not a career, yet many make it life long profession?

StormR

@AGL Bob I don't think they are considered low-level employees, but rather that some of the benefits they receive balance out the lower salary - such as free health care for themselves and family, housing allowance or on-base housing, commissary privileges. In reality, I don't believe it does balance out. I watched my nephew and his family struggle during his 8 years of service (including 3 deployments).

dm8471

@AGL Bob The answer is so complex it's simple... the unions for federal employees are so effing strong. That should explain everything.

IronMike76

2 Like

@AGL Bob Yep. I believe the original intent was the "citizen soldier." Then again, there was a time when nearly every man felt it his duty to serve the Nation. It was a natural part of being a citizen. Careers in the military were extremely rare.

Old PH2 moderator

3 Like

@IronMike76 @AGL Bob Recall that during the plains wars just after the US Civil war there was a small enlisted cadre that was long term careerist. But mainly Soldiering was not a profession for a polite gentleman, not even being officer. The social stigma was pretty heavy. Kinda like the way we see chronic welfare abusers today.

Old PH2 moderator

1 Like

@KineticFury With 10yrs service in 1992 at EOS I was all set to get orders back to the command I most coveted, but they weren't forthcoming. Two weeks before my EOS my enlisted detailer called with orders in hand. I passed, sometimes I still kick myself in the ass, but with the Clinton era RIF's and BRAC I realized more than likely I would be forced out anyway. A couple of my old friends made OCS and lifed out. I should have looked into it, spilt milk now.

KineticFury

1 Like

@Old PH2 Seems as if after most major wars there is a group that stays in "looking for more."

Old PH2 moderator

4 Like

@Recon6 @IronMike76 @AGL Bob Yeah, agree 100%. Look at Europe to see why a welfare system is problematic. Greece, Spain, Portugal, even France to some extent has succumbed to the lure of free Govt. hand outs.

Recon6 moderator

6 Like

@Old PH2 @IronMike76 @AGL Bob PH, unfortunately I don't see the "social stigma" to welfare abusers today. I have multiple family members that remain unemployed simply because they DO receive welfare, thus no need to work if the Government pays them. It is my opinion that the Welfare system, while good in theory, in actuality has become a huge form of Slavery to Americans. Why work if the Government will pay me to stay home and do nothing. The Excellence of America has deteriorated to a disgusting degree and continues to slide downward. Please be aware, I am referencing My lazy assed family, however I do find it to be applicable to society at large. Any 'good fortune' I have obtained has been called 'lucky', not due to the innumerable hours my wife and I worked to make certain our business was successful, according to others. Just my opinion. 6

Ben K

@AGL Bob My guess is that, for better or worse, enlisted servicemembers are considered low level government employees and the pay scale is impartial in that way - it doesn't draw a distinction between the SF Sergeant and the Water Treatment Specialist (with apologies to all Water Treatment Specialists, I can definitely see your contribution in those austere environments overseas!). It's the same way in the UN where my parents work, you have your G staff (E-1 to E-9's), your P Staff (O-1 to O-6's) and your D Staff (Stars). No distinction.

Old PH2 moderator

@Ben K @AGL Bob It's much like the corporate world where manufacturing now uses temporary services so that they can get around the requirements of providing insurance and regular pay raises to full time employees. Management has no financial incentive to keep or reward long service, turn over of employees keeps the cost of manufacturing down. Turn over of the lower ranks keeps the financial cost of our DoD down, it's simple numbers.

No fuckin' soul, but there it is.

StevenHildreth

I'm a bit of a TV buff, and reading that you only get $7.50 per day to get shot at brings this quote to mind:

"Well, if they want to put on the coveralls, I'll put them in the assembly line. You ask those worthless son-of-a-bitch camera hounds if they feel confident to run my operation. I'll tell you what--I'll put them in the line of fire, and I'll throw my coat over my shoulders, and I'll whore around and feel my constituents' pain, and I'LL run for Congress!"

JackMurphyRGR moderator

6 Like

A Sergeant Major's pension is chump change. A lot of E-9's retire from SF and go looking for work as a contractor or even in HVAC or as an electrician.

This comment has been deleted

JackMurphyRGR moderator

3 Like

@Matt2 That some douchebag Captain or Major who we all hoped would get taken out by taliban snipers gets a pension larger than a Sergeant Major is the real travesty.

ArcticWarrior

2 Like

@Matt2 @JackMurphyRGR

Matt we had a recent Academy Class with over 20 GWOT Vets in it. Lots of Depts give Vets priority on the hire list.

TheUltimateRobDarken

@JackMurphyRGR I always picture working as an electrician, I dont know why

Getting Shot At For $7.50 A Day

Getting Shot At For $7.50 A Day or Two Cups of Starbucks Coffee

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