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Home » Black Ops & Intel » A Critical Look at The Command by Marc Ambinder and D.B. Grady

A Critical Look at The Command by Marc Ambinder and D.B. Grady

by Jack Murphy · July 15, 2012 · Posted In: Black Ops & Intel, NSWC, Special Operations, USASOC
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At SOFREP we make a concerted effort to get the best and most accurate information about the Special Operations community to our readers. Careful considerations are given to Operational Security as we have no interest in compromising operations or endangering soldier’s lives, so balancing these two can be tricky at times. We also engage in some watchdog operations when we see the media just blatantly getting it wrong.

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The Command

Recently we called out the Durango Herald for a laughably bad piece about an alleged Delta Force Soldier who could have been outed with just a little fact checking. In the case of The Command there isn’t a need to call anyone out. Marc Ambinder and D.B. Grady make a serious effort to dig through the layers of classification that deliberately obscure the highly sensitive activities of the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), which is the umbrella under which Delta Force and SEAL Team Six exist.

In doing this they turn up some amazing information on previously undisclosed operations and activities. However, they also slip up more than once. This critique is intended as professional rather than personal criticism, but it is needed criticism. Because of OPSEC, not every incorrect statement made in The Command can be corrected.

This may sound like a cop out and maybe it is. It is also certain that the following is not a full critique as the author is not aware of every program and mission mentioned in Ambinder and Grady’s work and can’t comment on it one way or the other.

Some of the mistakes in The Command could be corrected with a careful reading of open source materials such as Mark Bowden’s Killing Pablo. Take for instance the statement that Delta Force was “…in Panama where it allegedly pursued Pablo Escobar.” Pablo Escobar was allegedly pursued by Delta Force in Pablo’s home country of Colombia. However, Delta Force did participate in the 1989 invasion of Panama.

Other elements of The Command take some careful scrutiny to recognize as being somewhat off target. The authors detail Admiral McRaven’s approach to the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq and how JSOC had to adapt to the new Iraqi legal system. Ambinder and Grady make it out as if JSOC intelligence analysts, Delta Force operators, and SEAL Team Six members routinely provided testimony to Iraqi judges in order to secure warrants for High Value Targets.

Delta Force in China? Not likely

Delta Force in China? Not likely.

In reality, this was a very rare event. More often, a member of Iraqi Counter-Terrorist forces would provide the testimony on behalf of JSOC. This is one way that JSOC was able to mitigate the Status of Forces Agreement.

It is also necessary to subject the sources used in The Command to closer scrutiny. For example, the New Yorker article Getting Bin Laden by Nicholas Schmidle is cited extensively as a source of information.

The New Yorker article in question has been derided by SEALs and Schmidle himself had to admit that he spoke to none of the SEALs involved in the raid, contrary to how he presented himself in the article. When asked about Schmidle’s work, veteran SEALs call it “a work of fiction.”

There are also smaller, but numerous errors throughout the book. Ambinder and Grady identify the sniper rifles used by SEALs on the Maersk Alabama hostage rescue operations as M-110 rifles when they were actually SR-25′s. They write that Intelligence Support Activity (ISA) is a Tier Two Special Operations element even though it is a Tier One unit within JSOC.

The authors incorrectly state that there are about 300 DEVGRU and 450 Delta operators. My advice to journalists is to simply stop guessing at the size, strength, and disposition of these two units.

Additionally, there are other mistakes such as mixing up Task Force names, and some content that I find highly questionable. For instance, they write that JSOC conducted less then a dozen raids in April of 2004. I find this highly suspect based on the amount of operations conducted by other Special Operations units during this time frame.

Mohammed Jamal KhalifaMention is made to the killing of Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, Osama Bin Laden’s son-in-law who was assassinated in Madagascar in 2007. According to The Command, a JSOC team infiltrated into the country to carry out the killing.

Much is left hanging in the air in regards to this claim. Witnesses to the killing describe a gang of 20-30 men who bludgeoned Khalifa to death at the gem mine he owned. No mention is made of foreigners. No doubt, Khalifa was on JSOC’s target deck, whether or not there was American involvement in his death is debatable until further evidence is presented.

Perhaps the most shocking claim made in The Command is that Delta Force infiltrated into China to conduct a recon operation on Chinese satellite transmission facilities to determine how to knock them out if it ever became necessary in the future.

Without further knowledge of this alleged operation, I find it highly suspect. You can knock out a telemetry station with a cruise missile, no need for a high-risk recce operation that violates the sovereignty of a nuclear power like China. Could the recce mission have actually been about acquiring SIGINT intercepts? It is unlikely that Delta would be used for this mission, and frankly, and it is doubtful that this mission ever took place to begin with.

The authors describe how hesitant Washington was to send operators into Somalia, a lawless failed state in which essentially zero political fallout would occur in the context of international politics if an operation was compromised, yet the authors still believe that these same politicians blessed off on an incursion into China? Not likely.

Ambinder and Grady make a strong effort at uncovering the classified activities of JSOC, and present some amazing revelations in the process, but they also stumble over themselves more than once. We can be sure that JSOC is more than happy with that. I look forward to future works from these authors and will continue to follow them but humbly ask that they tighten up their shot group a bit.

At this time, I would not recommend The Command to the lay person who is interested in learning more about Special Operations. For the researcher who is willing to double and triple source the claims made by the authors, it may be of some use.

The true history of JSOC and the Special Operations community has yet to be written, and as long as we have Soldiers serving overseas, maybe we should all be grateful for that fact.

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AD7
AD7 5pts

I remember reading Bowden's book Killing Pablo and if I'm recalling correctly Pablo did go outside of Columbia a few times and was in Panama for a while. It wasn't until Los Pepes showed up that they finally got Pablo to stay put in Columbia, where Delta and Seals were finally able to locate him. That being said I don't have the book in front of me and it's been a while since I read it.

Gengiskhan6
Gengiskhan6 5pts

Fun review, but do the writers clearly state this is fiction ? Most of the books out of modern military and u.s. forces are full o fiction or story telling parts it is said. Even Herald story must be fiction and it has been publish to see what people would say and how people would react when they see a image of a hero that they didn't expected or imagine. That is the point. people want to know what they want not what is true ... It's all about that. I am not saying anything new.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Jack - Excellent article.  Having a dozens of JSOC customers your commentary helps me determine where to focus my limited resources. Thanks.  Very helpful.

 

Consider putting together a SOFREP reading list? 

 

Chris Martin - spectacular article.  Well worth 10x the price!

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod Thanks man. Glad you enjoyed it.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @Chris Martin

 Can't communicate what a great job you did.  Thank you!

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod Just saw the review... That's really great -- thanks! The follow-up will hopefully be coming relatively soon. I've already made a lot of notes, and my schedule opens up a bit in a couple weeks; I'm hoping to really dig in and craft it into something that's actually readable then.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Chris Martin

 Sterling review submitted.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Chris Martin  @majrod AWESOME! We'll be waiting bro!

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod That's great to hear. BTW, if you liked 'Shaping the World from the Shadows,' there's more in that same vein coming in the relatively near future so stayed tuned. (In the mean time, feel free to help spread the word about the Delta ebook -- if you have a spare 45 seconds, throw me a review at Amazon.com. That's always greatly appreciated.)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod I think Jack and Brandon have had a few hundred requests for a SOFREP reading list since the site launched, and I know they want to do it.  But you gotta remember there's gonna be guys that get the knickers in a twist if they're not on it so they're threshing it out. 

 

I've spent at LEAST $2k since SOFREP launched on gear and books.  And I'm just 1 dude.  These guys are smart and they'll figure it out, just let the poor whipping boys (C... you know I'm looking at you) that have to get it rolling, get it rolling.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9 I'll check up on what the status is with it.  Whatever it ends up looking like it will be a perpetual work in progress as new books comes out and we discover old ones.  I've been digging through stuff that was published in the 80's, early JSOC material from Adams, Emerson, guys like that.

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@JackMurphyRGR @HugeFan @Tango9 That dripping sound is my credit card melting.....

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9 Wilco

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @HugeFan  @Tango9 I got some good ones coming.  Watch out for a review of "Classified Woman" by Sibel Edmonds.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9 Love the effort that you put forth man. Family first!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod  @Tango9 SOFREP will always be the main effort but it's too easy to put together a list of books that we recommend.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @Tango9 Oh, it's real simple.  Blow off school work and settle for a B average.  A+ students go to work in academia, B and C students make the big bucks and fund the school, even get a bench with a little plaque with their name on it.  I hate college.

 

But that ain't the half of it, I'm two thirds of the way through my next novel and I've also got a family to take care of.  There are SOFREP stories that I'm way, way behind on I'm afraid.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @JackMurphyRGR   T9  Can I borrow it when you are done?  PLZ, I am a voracious reader on the Civil War, lol.   R6

At least references where I can find the info....j/k

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9   AW, also 'Eyes of the Eagle' for the 101st AB.   R6

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9

 Jack - Unsolicited advice.  There are plenty of reading lists out there.  Stay focused on what you guys want SOFREP to be about.  Sun Tzu and Mao's little red book are key to a scholarly study of COIN but doesn't help the reader much in understanding current SOF which just by your categories is what the site is about.

 

In a word, Focus!

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts

 @Tango9  @JackMurphyRGR Dude, what is wrong with you! LMAO... Navy Chiefs aren't even that quick (Sorry BW)... You crack me up, sir!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @JackMurphyRGR He has a basement full of Russian hookers chained to computer desks.  duh.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9 ASS-KISSING ALERT: Jack, how in the bloody hell are you able to contribute to this site, go to Columbia U (last I checked they were pretty demanding of a student's time) and be able to dig through piles of shit to find pertinent info? Dude, as a taxpayer I feel like we did you a disservice allowing the "shit" get to a point where you felt that you would do more constructive things outside an ODA. Thanks, man.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JackMurphyRGR

Dude, a comprehensive, "This Is the End All and Be All of Spec Ops" place to come for books would be a mammoth undertaking.  My mother (!) called me today and said she'd acquired a 25 book set published in 1890 on the Civil War for (check your junk) $25.  

 

This is a moving target.  BUT doesn't mean it can't be done!

 

But... wouldn't this be the best place on the planet to get the best papers/books/novels?  (I see your gears turning)?

 

Oh yeah.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9 Hey AW, would you like to tell my wife why I am spending so much on Amazon? LOL... This one won't be Kindle friendly, I'm sure. Thank you, sir.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Tango9

 I think the list would be a super jumping off point, especially for younger guys. For me the book that had the biggest influence was  Eyes Behind the Lines L Company. I still have it somewhere, cover long gone. Maybe someone will stumble upon one of the books, or one of your own books, and choose a Military path.

SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts

These tell all books by non operators are often guess work at best. Any real operator wouldn't and shouldn't speak to these people. At this point in the GWOT or whatever they are calling it these days the less said the better. I don't mind books written by men who have been downrange because the understand what they can and can't say. REMFs and NCMFs should be very careful about what they say or write.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @SEAL76 But I can explain your retirement benefits like no one else on earth!  Got 3 divorced wives and 12 kids?  Need me to do the Survivor Benefit Plan?  I'll take no fucking prisoners, bitches!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts

 @SEAL76 I'd write a book about the intricacies of military personnel administration:  handing out leave numbers, weighing in fatties, conducting PT tests, filing NJP paperwork (juicy parts!) but I'm guessing no one would buy the book.  The "behind the scenes" nuances of dealing with AFPC (who you know, not what you know)... yeah... I'm still getting the feeling it wouldn't sell.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @SEAL76 Oh... and the Combat Personnel shred?  Shiiiiiiiiit. Picture this:  2 Combat Personnel guys walking into the base personnel office at Peterson AFB CO and all the little E-3/E-4 girls stopping what they're doing (it only works in slow motion, with music in the background) and stare all googley-eyed at the personnel studs that just got back from a 90 day deployment to Riyadh where we stayed in a marble-floored hotel and weighed people in and made sure everyone got their combat pay.

 

Oh yes... sexy...

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts

 @Tango9  @SEAL76 And you can throw in a bit from Craig Ferguson; "HERE COME THE PLAYAS..." cut to the video of the floor getting wet and slippery from the ...(previous verbiage self censored and deleted due to X-rated content unsuitable for family programming, etc).

kcarmical
kcarmical 5pts

@jeffemanuel Can you quickly explain to me the diff between SF and SOF? I've nvr understood the disctinction... tnx!

jeffemanuel
jeffemanuel 5pts

@kcarmical SF = Army Special Forces (commonly called "Green Berets"). SOF = all Special Operations Forces

dbgrady
dbgrady 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 13 Like

Hi all,

 

My name is David Brown -- I write under the pseudonym D.B. Grady. It's never a good idea for authors to respond to reviews, but in this case -- because I'm such a fan of SOFREP -- I figured what the hell.

 

I won't do a point-by-point, but I did want to add some background. The Command was written a month or so before the Bin Laden raid. (That was later added and fleshed out during final revisions. Our sourcing for that stuff went well beyond the Schmidle piece.) When we started, JSOC was well known in the circles that follow this kind of stuff. But the average guy would think "jay-sock" is some kind of designer footwear. At the time of release, there was no book out there that offered such a thorough, unbiased look at JSOC. This book is our attempt to explain how the organization works and what it looks like. 

 

We had three guiding principles: 1. Report nothing that would jeopardize anyone in the field, or any ongoing operation; 2. Keep the reporting neutral -- the reader is smart enough to form his or her own opinions on these things; 3. Get the story right. (Concerning the first point -- the book was read by people in positions to know if we were overstepping boundaries, and we adjusted fire accordingly.)

 

I am very proud of the book we've written. If we were writing it today, obviously it would look different, simply because so much more is known. But at the time, it was a lot like assembling a jigsaw puzzle while blindfolded. (There was no SOFREP at the time. On that note, I'm a huge fan of Chris Martin's book, and would have killed for such a well-written, thoroughly-researched guide. He's also a great guy that I respect as much as anyone I've ever met. To anyone who hasn't read his book yet, do yourself a favor and get a copy today.) In The Command, when we were guessing about something, we made sure to point it out. But our sources were absolutely unimpeachable on areas that might surprise you.

 

As for boneheaded things like Pablo Escobar, that's just the kind of mistake that as a reporter you work your ass off to avoid, but somehow slips though. The same goes for the sniper rifles used by SEALs on the Bainbridge. Whenever we run across errors, we admit them, report them to the publisher for correction, and drive on.

 

They say that journalism is the first draft of history. We corrected a lot of inaccuracies that were previously on the record, and future books (and sites like SOFREP) will do the same for us. But nothing was reported lightly -- we take this job very seriously. And we work to tighten our shot group every day.

 

Thank you for reading the book, and for taking the time to evaluate it. And thank you and all the guys at SOFREP for the great work that you do.

 

Best,

 

David Brown

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@dbgrady Good Morning Mr. Brown, Welcome to the band of merry pirates. Very professional response. I look forward to many more good posts as all voices are welcomed. Brandon ensures that, within some rules of reasonable discussion, it is his sandbox. Brandon and Jack have gathered a great Red/Blue team ranging from Vietnam era LRRPS and UDT/SEALs, vets from all branches and countries (RLI/Selous Scout maybe?), spooks, and even an Executive Outcomes vet - so you will get opinions from all over. And the veteran men and women who post command respect as they have volunteered their lives for our freedoms. This is definitely 2nd and 1st amendment country so gird your loins. Great start into the SOFREP community.

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dbgrady Way to keep it classy Dave! Good on ya!

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @dbgrady  Ok, now I MUST buy this book.  I'm absolutely not above "doing a little work," and thoroughly  enjoy researching the facts of books I read.  David, I am grateful for your openness and your courage to come onto this site and your willingness to admit errors.  I absolutely would buy you a drink, finding writers, journalists, that have a spine is such a rare treat!  

 

Welcome to SOFREP, please keep us in the loop I'm sure these fellows will help you on your next project into the SOCCOM world. 

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Old PH2 Agreed! He handled this waaaaayyyy better than that poor Axe fellow. The response above denotes exactly how open-minded and professional this cat is. Sign me up for The Command... dammit... I can already feel the wallet getting lighter. :-)

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 9 Like

 @dbgrady Thanks for the kind words David. As you know, I'm a fan of your work and of you as an individual, and this is exactly the sort of classy and humble response I'd expect from you.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 10 Like

 @dbgrady Hi David, I hope this review was at least somewhat helpful for you guys.  When I wrote it I kept in mind that you are journalists and not former SOF Soldiers.  Our world is a difficult one to investigate, especially for outsiders, and especially when attempting to detail classified programs.  I can understand some of the confusion when taking all of this into account.  I would definitely encourage you to take a second look at some of the information in The Command, maybe one day when some of the walls start to come down, the troops return home, and some of the documents get declassified it can be turned into a full fledged book.  No one is more curious, or more interested to see that book (when the time is right) than I am.  Despite serving in two SOF units, I realize that I just saw a small piece of what was going on and many of us had moments overseas when we suddenly realized that we were part of something much, much bigger than we ever could have imagined.

ColonelProp
ColonelProp 5pts

Excellent review Jack. Your last sentence says it all. I have very little headSpace left to process data on multiple cross checks. I think I'll pass.

NelsonJr
NelsonJr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Damnit Jack, i'm going to have to put this on my "to read" list now...it keeps getting longer and longer and longer...lol

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

Grreat break down Jack. Possible dis-information and detail on purpose? And the China thing is really off the wall and how do you get Pablo/Columbia mixed up with Panama? The guy was synonymous with Columbia. Seems like Chris Martins book was way more competent. I dont understand why these authors feel the need to give roster strength numbers on Dev and D.

That picture of the dude on the top is great. Im most impressed by the fact he was able to cut his sleeves of his combat shirt, would have killed for that!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @ArcticWarrior Medical shears will cut through damn near anything!  Chris did an awesome job, but remember his work was essentially a research paper that aggregates all of the pre-existing information from books and articles to make it easy on readers wanting to learn more about modern day Delta Force.  The Command is an attempt at investigative journalism that uncovers new information.  I believe that much of the information uncovered in this work is accurate, but a lot of it is not.

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@JackMurphyRGR Jack nails it -- my ebook was intended as an open source project to help cull the rather significant amount info that was out there but widely dispersed. I wouldn't put it in the same category as 'The Command' or the work of other journalists like Sean Naylor or Mark Urban, and that's something I never attempted to misrepresent. The fact is I have a lot of respect for the difficult work done by journalists like Marc and D.B., and I cited both (along with 'The Command') in 'Shaping the World from the Shadows'. If you research enough, you'll find a lot of (usually minor) contradictions and I did my best to pick and choose what I deemed most accurate (although there are no guarantees there either). The insight of people like Jack was/is a huge help in that regard too.

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ArcticWarrior Thanks, I really do appreciate it. To be honest, I'm not intending to sell myself short -- I'm proud of the work and have been thrilled by the reception -- but I'm also careful to make sure it's not held up to be something that it's not. My ebook owes a great deal to the hard work of the aforementioned journalists. And I really do think they're working an extremely difficult beat -- one where few people are talking, those who are likely have an agenda of some sort, and only a tiny % have a real sense of the complete picture. Just by cross-referencing works, I'm pretty sure could point to what I'd consider very likely errors by all of the journalists covering this particular subject matter, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss them completely. (And for the record, I am sure some of the info in my ebook is off the mark as well as much as I tried to avoid it). I think that comes with the territory when writing about such secretive, sensitive units and operations. Does that make it 'excusable?' Well, no, but it's probably unavoidable to some degree and readers should realize going in that nothing they read on this topic should be treated as the absolute gospel.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Chris Martin

 The beauty of yours is you were upfront about it not being gospel and it was open sourced researched. I might check this book out but journalists have to do better then Pablo/Panama that is a major gaffe. And Im not a big fan of "guesstimating" the size of D or Dev, just a pet peeve of mine, somethings should be left grey and murky. Dont sell yourself short brother, your book was excellent.

BrandonWebb
BrandonWebb moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @ArcticWarrior Just passed this on an NBC Peacock Productions Producer...she said thank you. As you know they were looking at this book as a basis of some of their upcoming production with Discovery's Military Channel. With their schedule so tight it will be interesting to see if fiction is represented as fact in October...

Logan F Crooks
Logan F Crooks 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR I'm with you on the Medical Shears, I've cut Pennies with mine.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  Lol...yeah but Mother wouldnt approve of improvised short sleeves!

Agreed, I suspect maybe some disinformation is included on purpose, and as you pointed out JSOC is probably happy with that. Just rubs me wrong when anyone throws numbers on roster strengths,Squadron sizes etc. I just dont see any point for that knowledge to be out there you know? Im just as curious as anyone else but somethings should not get the Woodward and Bernstein.

 

StormR
StormR 5pts

 @LauraWalkerKC Absolutely!  Have to applaud him for his courage, commitment and taste.  He must be  a secure, confident guy - or a man who really loves the relative that gave him the boxers.   Either way - he's a keeper! 

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR the guy that will get his gun no matter who sees his pink boxers - that's a standup guy =)

StormR
StormR 5pts

 @LauraWalkerKC  Ohhhh myyyyy, thank you, Lauren!  I did a search on it after I saw the picture and am even more impressed.  Of course, now I have to delete the history from my work PC, because I don't think I can explain why I was searching for "soldiers in pink boxers".    Gawd, he was so cute in his pink boxers with the little hearts all over them (inappropriate comment I know, but I could have said much worse).

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts

 @StormR Just for you:

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/ap/e2c3d0d9-0c1b-458d-9258-225da7cabf58.grid-6x2.jpg

StormR
StormR 5pts

Okay..I admit it..I would like to see the picture of the guy in pink boxers...wandering off to do a google search now.   

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @OPR  Thats awesome Id love to see that. The pic of the guy with his pink boxers on in a firefight is a classic also.

 

Erik L
Erik L 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR

 My 2nd deployment was spent with them.... a couple of them did not really like the whole "military" look and instead opted for jeans and a tan t-shirt with velcro sewn onto each sleeve - one side for a IR flag and the other for a call sign. That's literally how they went out on target. of course they still put their kit on over that, but you see what I'm getting at.

 

Personally, I think there is a time and a place for it. If you are doing low vis stuff, then roger. But if you are doing DA hits... then dress accordingly. I got the impression those guys based atleast some of their decisions on what looked cool.

OPR
OPR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR There's a picture out there of SEALs wearing leotards in Afghanistan.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR

 The 101st Pathfinder Mohawk, man I always wanted to do that hairstyle. Mother sucks. Same with the LRRP Sleeveless look. Well at least someone is keeping the tradition alive.

 

http://www.californiaindianeducation.org/native_american_veterans/airborne/paratroopers/Warrior_Face_Painting_WW2.jpg

 

 

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @ArcticWarrior Back in the 80's I had eye's on a detachment from ST6 during a supply run.  I honestly thought they looked mostly like a Biker gang, jeans, leathers, long hair, beards, ratty old Pickup trucks.  But you could also tell they were very disciplined, no grabassing, NO talking.  In and out, very quiet and professional.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @ArcticWarrior What those guys get away with is a bit much for Mother Army as well, even at her most extreme.  One of my guys got away with a mohawk out on a three day desert patrol but that was about it.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR

 Lol...No I never got to work with DEV...and as much as I would have loved to look like the Rag Man, Mother would have pitched a fit

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 8 Like

 @ArcticWarrior Have you ever worked with Dev before?  Those guys look like Joe Shit the Rag Man out there.  And I say that with all due of respect to Joe Shit the Rag Man.

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