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Home » SOF History » The Evolution of the 75th Ranger Regiment (pt. 2): Selecting and Building a Ranger

The Evolution of the 75th Ranger Regiment (pt. 2): Selecting and Building a Ranger

by Jack Murphy · August 30, 2012 · Posted In: SOF History, USASOC
ranger10
Today’s modern Ranger Battalions were first established in 1974 as America’s premier Airborne Light Infantry unit which would be a part of America’s new and growing Special Operations capability. The unit would be specially trained and selected in order to maintain high standards and serve as a role model for the rest of the Army.

Related Posts
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  • The 75th Ranger Regiment Goes To Hollywood
  • The 75th Ranger Regiment is NOT the same as Ranger School!

With this in mind, 1st Ranger Battalion was stood up as was its selection program called the Ranger Indoctrination Program, or RIP. Soon after when 2nd Ranger Battalion would activated, they too began their own RIP for incoming and prospective Rangers.

After graduating from Basic Training, Advanced Individual Training, and Airborne School, those enlisted soldiers who wish to join the ranks of the 75th Ranger Regiment then attend the Ranger’s selection program. This is a brief history of that program and how it has evolved from the early days up to the present.

Battalion-level RIP

Former 1/75 Ranger Mingo Kane had this to say about his experience going through RIP in 1984:

“First week, run…run, PT, road march, run…get screamed at, run…flutter kicks, run. Not a lot of sleep…it was pretty much to weed out the weaker students…

Hand to hand was nothing more than getting your ass kicked, everything revolved around punishment…elevating your feet shoulder height to knock out push ups when you fucked up, which was often…

I gotta say, I never knew a human fucking being could run like they did in RIP…fuckers [cadre] were beasts. The chow hall was a good ways off, you ran there, ate in 45 seconds and ran back….you had to read the [Ranger] handbook every down second of time, no laying around on bunks at night shooting the shit, you were exhausted anyway…

I think we started out with something like 26 and graduated something like 6…one year later I was the only one left in 1st Batt (Frances Elder was killed in Panama).”

1st Ranger Battalion RIP

One of Mingo’s fellow RIP students had a father who was a Lieutenant Colonel. When his son called to tell his dad that he was thinking about quitting RIP, his father told him, “If you quit, don’t you ever cross the Mason/Dixon line north ever again.”

1/75, as remembered by Old School Rangers

The dreaded 1/75 O-Course

Mingo continues”

“The obstacle course was the worse ever…nothing even close, not the Queen, Green Hell, nothing…fuckers [cadre] made you bear crawl to each obstacle, negotiate it, then crab crawl to the next….of course when you finished you didn’t do it fast enough and had to go back through it…

I hated that, hated it with a passion…even when you drew all your gear (3 duffel bags) they road marched your ass to the Battalion area…and then the cherry hazing began…I participated in ‘The Toughest Cherry’ contest nightly wearing UDT trunks and a white steel pot with two red cherries painted on it…

I truly hated those nights…BUT…I will not trade it for anything, it made me realize that no matter how bad things may get for me, I have been through worse and survived because I did not quit…and to this day, I can still recite the Ranger Creed, word for word, without fail…They burned the Creed into your mind from day one, you learned very quickly that your life revolved around that Creed and the high standard of excellence.”

Regimental-level RIP

In 1985, the Ranger Indoctrination Program was consolidated at Ft. Benning in order to have a single level of standardization across all three Ranger Battalions. Additionally, it was cheaper to have one compound, one set of cadre, and one curriculum than have each battalion conduct RIP individually. Cadre were selected by First Sergeant George Conrad from each of the three battalions and the first Regimental RIP class began in spring of 1985.

One early Regimental-level RIP class (12-87) started with 56 students and only had three remaining by the third day of the course after the 12-mile road march. Other events included daily physical training, map reading, land navigation, Ranger history classes, swim test, tactical training, and parachute jumps.

Runs started at four miles and progressed to six to be run at a pace of six minutes per mile. Those who could not hang in the formation would be released from the course. These early RIP classes lasted for four weeks but later RIP was decreased to a three week course of instruction.

This author attended RIP in June of 2003. As Staff Sergeant Phipps explained to us while waiting to begin RIP, it was not the cadre’s job to smoke us but rather they gave the students a task, conditions, and standards. If we failed to meet those standards then we would be “physically corrected.”

Graded events included the PT test, the Combat Water Survival Test, 5-mile run, 12-mile ruck march, Ranger history test, psychological evaluation, and Land Navigation. Other training events that students had to pass was fast rope training from the 45-foot tower and Ranger First Responder (medical) training. The most dreaded portion of RIP was four days spent out at Cole Range where Land Navigation training took place.

At Cole Range, RIP students were taught how to navigate with a map and compass through the forest both during the day and at night. While not participating in the land navigation exercises, students were treated to combatives training, learning how to establish patrol bases, or partaking in some of the “physical correction” that they had heard so much about.

The most motivating aspect of RIP was how fast all the jokers who don’t belong in the 75th Ranger Regiment start disappearing. Those who can’t meet standards are released from the course. Those who lack self confidence voluntarily withdraw from the course. Showboaters and spotlighters are physically corrected and shown the door. Students who fail to pay attention to detail are released from the course. Show up to Monday morning formation without a fresh haircut? Gone. Lose a 2 quart canteen? Gone.

RIP was a hellacious course, but a great experience for young soldiers and when you stood in formation upon graduation you knew that the guy to your left and right had earned the right to be there.

In later years, a fourth week was once again added to RIP in order to familiarize students with basic Ranger marksmanship techniques on the flat range and further prepare them to meet the challenges they would face once they got to their battalions.

RASP

In 2010 the Ranger Indoctrination Program (RIP) was replaced with the Ranger Assessment and Selection Program (RASP). RASP now extended the course duration to a total of eight weeks of training. While the beginning of RASP still mimics the older RIP program in order to weed out the weak and feeble, RASP includes much more skills training that Rangers new to the Regiment will need once they arrive.

This reflects not only the growing complexity of Ranger missions, but also the fact that Rangers do not have an extended training pipeline like SEALs or Special Forces. It was not uncommon for a soldier to graduate from RIP and be deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan a week later. RASP ensures that new Rangers have more of the base line skills they will need when they arrive in a combat zone.

The first phase of RASP is designed to push the individual Ranger student to the breaking point by inducing food and sleep deprivation alongside extremely taxing physical activities and events. RASP students are put through the meat grinder, including the traditional field trip out to Cole Range for some training and “physical correction.”

Phase two of RASP keeps up the pressure but now tests how well the individual can preform basic Ranger tasks while under stress. This phase includes not just flat range work and marksmanship, but also drivers training.

The Ranger Regiment always focused on the Big Four, Physical Training, Marksmanship, Battle Drills, and Medical Training. Today, Mobility has been added, and with good reason, to make it the Big Five. RASP students learn how to drive tactical vehicles during the day and at night while wearing night vision goggles. RASP students also get qualified in explosive breaching, combatives, and Ranger First Responder.

The key difference between the old RIP program and the improved RASP course is that RASP not only selects Rangers by assessing their physical and mental toughness but also saves the Regiment time and money by only selecting those who are trainable and capable of executing Ranger tasks.

In the past, a student who could suck up some pain and misery for three weeks would make it to Regiment only to be kicked out months later for failure to preform to the demanding training standards that are expected of him.

According to a recent RASP graduate and member of the 75th Ranger Regiment, “RASP1 crushed me, physically and mentally. Even after preparing for 8 months of non-stop training, it still got me. I have never been broke down so far both physically and mentally; but then I was re-built into a Ranger. Taught never to quit, never to leave a fallen comrade, and most importantly, that I volunteered for this and if I didn’t want it anymore, Regiment didn’t want me there.”

Additionally, those students who preform exceptionally well in RASP are sometimes being sent directly to Ranger School after graduation. All 75th Ranger Regiment members are expected to eventually attend Ranger School and must have a Ranger Tab in order to hold a leadership position. This is an effort to get more Ranger School qualified soldiers into the Regiment.

Will this one day become part of the 75th’s training pipeline and all Rangers will eventually be tabbed Corporals and above? Time will tell.

RASP2 and ROP

Just as RIP was the pre-requisite selection program for all enlisted men in order to become members of the Ranger Regiment, the Ranger Orientation Program (ROP) was required for all Sergeants and Officers who wished to join the ranks of the 75th. Even Rangers who leave the Regiment to work as training instructors elsewhere in the Army, or even to become Delta Force operators, would have to complete ROP in order to re-join the Regiment at a later date.

This is another necessary step to ensure that the highest standards were, and are, maintained in the Regiment.

ROP had many of the same tested events as RIP but also included certain team building events in order to evaluate leadership potential. At the end of ROP there was a selection board that each ROP student had to pass. Today, ROP has been replaced with RASP2.

Conclusion

As SOFREP has reported previously, there have been some issues with standards slipping in recent RASP classes but it seems that both current and former Rangers all agree: getting into the Regiment is a lot easier than staying there.

As challenging as RIP, and now RASP is, these selection programs are not as difficult as the training that members of the 75th conduct on a daily basis. These programs are not nearly as difficult as the hundreds of combat missions that Rangers will conduct after they graduate, sometimes rolling outside the wire on multiple raids during a single period of darkness.

75th Ranger Regiment in Afghanistan

Living up to the high standards of the Regiment, and living by the Ranger Creed, is another matter entirely. The Regiment is largely self correcting in that those who slip through the cracks during RASP will quickly be shown the door and send to another unit. RASP is a vast improvement upon the now obsolete RIP, but the ultimate selection happens day to day, mission to mission for every member of the Regiment.

Also check out an overview of the evolution of the Ranger Regiment in Part 1 of this series.

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RANGER BOB
RANGER BOB 5pts

YOU GOT TO REMEMBER WHEN I WENT TO RANGER SCHOOL I WAS JUST BACK FROM VIETNAM & WAS TAUGHT IN THE BUSH RECON TACTICS,L.R.R.P. I AWS ONLY 16 IN NAM SO THAT WAS A LIFETIME AGO.I WAS WITH THE 5TH GROUP OUT OF BO-DOP,FOR THE EASTER OFFENCIVE.I WAS GREEN ALL AROUND EVEN WHEN IT CAME TO WARING TIGERS UNIFORM.I WENT TO RANGER SCHOOL AFTER NAM,1973 & BOY THINGS WERE DIFFERENT.I WAS AN IOI ABN TRAINED SCHOOL BOY FRSH MEAT IN THE JUNGLE I AM A QUICK STUDY.SO I MADE MY GUYS FROM MACVSOG A PROMISE I WOULD BECOME AN RANGER BECAUSE INOT GOOD W/LANGUGES.NOW THATS PART OF MY STORY

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

By the way, I'll take this thread any day--drinking beer, talking selection w/ Rangers young and old, than the other political threads going on right now. Hell, I see Matt2 just cancelled his livefyre over those threads. This is fun and not dirty, hope everyone is seeing it the same way I am--a very productive shit talkin' session.

ratt1niner
ratt1niner 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Dude I really didn't get the point you were trying to make, Ranger selection is a lot longer suck fest than a Recon selection.  The Recon indoc I passed for a Rgt Recon PLT had 18 marines trying out and it lasted only about 8 hrs.  They told us they were taking 4 to 5 Marines.  At the time late 90's indoc consisted of a PFT with min standards that you had to meet, run under a 21 min 3 mile, at least 10 dead hang pull ups and like 60 sit-ups was the minimum standard for the pft.  You want to do your best because you were competing  against the rest of the Marines.


Then they ran us about a mi at a sprinters pace over to the pool, it consisted of high dive, half hour of treading water, 1000m swim within a time constraint, a 25m under water swim, 25m cross over swimming with a rubber rifle out of the water, then about a half hour of water aerobics suck fest of swimming and getting thrashed out of the pool.  From there we ran to the football field for another PT thrashing for about 20 min then a uphill run to the O-course.


The O-course we ran twice within a certain allotment of time then we stepped off on the final event a 5mi pack run that had to be completed in under an hour by then the temp was about 105 as we started up sand monster.  After the run we were sent back to our rooms showered and changed over and reported back for a board interview.  Throughout the indoc you didn't have any of the Recon cadre screaming at you, they weren't in your face it was all about here's the event go do it.   


The indoc's events were scored 1-18, so if you were the second fastest in the opening 3mi run you scored 2 points the last guy scored 18.  Some events were pass/fail so they didn't have a point total. The goal was to have the least amount of points at the end of the day, they did let a few of the guys slide and continue for not completing an event to the standard.  If it was a Force Recon indoc and you didn't complete one of the events to the standard you failed the indoc right on the spot from what a Force friend told me.  There were only about 10 guys left after the pack run most quit during the pool stage.  They ended up taking 5 guys I had the second lowest point total, passed the review board and was selected.  When my orders came through three weeks later my newly minted Battalion Commander refused to sign off on my orders. It sucked I trained my ass off for the indoc received permission from my Company CO to take the indoc only to have the Bn CO kank my orders.  


The deal with a Recon indoc is they are screening for guys that won't quit but more importantly I think they were looking for PT studs, guys that were physically able to perform at high level.  At the time I was in there were three levels of Recon, Rgt Recon platoons, and Div and Force Recon Companies.  I'm sure each indoc had its own little tweaks but from guys i talked to they were similar. You passed the indoc went to the unit and after awhile of proving you weren't shitbird you got orders to BRC and other schools, if you fucked up they could always send you back to a line company.  I don't know how it is with guys going to BRC right out of SOI with a Recon contract now, are they screened the same way before start BRC?. Its interesting to see how all the different SOF units select their members, you can't say one way is better than the other they all have different forms of suck. The thing is you could have Rangers not able to pass BUDS, SEALS not able to pass a Force Recon Indoc and a Recon Marine not able to pass RIP, think about it.




Surf375
Surf375 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Abn_rngr : "I sure hope it's not the case that the Marines have two kinds: criminals who can kill and law abiding citizens who can't."

 

I'm not advocating for criminals (DUI and DV cases aren't necessarily criminal), just that when you do selections, you standardize traits you want. Essentially, you've just turned it into a factory, objective and always w/ metrics. I'm saying the traits you want isn't measurable, it has to be done on a one on one level. Take for instance a LT for an LRRP Vietnam outfit, weighing 120 lbs, RIP would've broke his back, w/ out RIP that same LT killed hundreds in 'Nam. That's why there has to be room for creativity, which you can't really measure.

 

 @MingoKane : "You have 100 men, all equal but you only need 25....How do you pick them Surge? And how would you replace them...and what of the 75, were they bad soldiers because you had to let them go? And why did you let them go to begin with, what made the 25 stay?"

 

Prior to MARSOC how were Recon Marines chosen? Each unit had a selection for the bare minimums, swim, run, hump and PT. Then everyone went to BRC which wasn't pass/fail. Then they'd go to jump school and dive school, then sport a dual cool. After that it's basically add on training. It's the work-ups that really count. At first glance, pre-MARSOC Recon Marines were the same, but

 

then Marine culture steps in and mandates that after those 25 are chosen trained and deployed, that they spread that expertise through out the Marine Corps and not quarantine it within a small unit. I think that's the communistic difference here. When Bn or Force Recon deploy (same with FAST, etc.), they'll take regular inf. plts and teach them. Marines are very pedantic--that whole "one bullet away" mentality is branch wide. 

 

At the end of the day, a Recon Marine is just a highly trained Marine, whereas a Ranger will see himself differently from another soldier. Marines want MARSOC to continue this tradition, whether they do or not, is another story--because of funding, the above paradigm calculus shifts, its not about ensuring that weak link gets stronger (as before), rather it becomes about the money/status. That's why Marines have always steered clear from SOCOM.

 

I went off on a tangent there, my point about pre-9/11 Recon Marines is that, they're always open for that 115 lbs LRRP 'Nam type, who probably can't bench 250, or carry a 200 lbs man, but is a natural born killer. That's my take on standardization.

 

p.s.~ Just started on your book, brother, so far so good, really like it. Reading it w/ Dick Couch's newest book on Rangers.

 

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Surge375  @Abn_rngr  @MingoKane Here's the thing you don't get Surge. The Regiment doesn't need that 115 lbs LRRP 'Nam type with killer instinct(And I got a feeling he can do more than you think). You know why? Because I got 20 guys that run faster, can bench 250lbs, and carry a 200lbs man with a higher GT score wanting his spot. You're trying to compare the methods of the Marines needing to fill 200,000 spots with a much smaller unit. Yeah, will old 115lbs guy go on to be a great soldier? Possibly, and that's why we send him to the Big Army where he can go do great things. Honestly nobody gets RFSed or fails RASP for not benching 250lbs in any case. You want to talk about an arbitrary thing not related to killing? How about the Marine's requirement of not accepting a GED?

 

Honestly your arguments are exactly that of LcplXs(Marine culture superiority, no cover-ups[somehow Marine cover-ups differ, Haditha killings not as immoral as Tillman], LCpls all speaking their minds vs. apparently borg-like Rangers) and it's really hard to argue against because it's a bunch of biased feel-good bs and a complete lack of experience in dealing with Rangers. The thing you need to realize about Ranger Bn is we're deploying every 6 months working for JSOC to take out terrorist networks. We don't have time to fuck around with some guy that needs to go to the gym more. We don't have time for guys that can't run, jump or whatever to standard. We don't have time for a guy that's going to break the law all the time. They're all liabilities. You think we don't mold soldiers? You think all the guys that pass JSOC selections could have done that right through the gate? Of course we mold soldiers. But we have a selection that hands us a higher-quality product than the Marines as a branch can do.

 

I really don't even get your argument about Recon Marines. I'm pretty sure they have a pretty high attrition rate as well and methods quite similar to Regiment to go about them pre-9/11 or not.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight  @Abn_rngr  @MingoKane 

 

Delta Force 1st class, bunch of Rangers were there, have you read Stan Goff's take on the culture and personalities involved in the forming of Delta, pretty crazy. Hence the importance of culture.

 

My point is that you can take that whole selection thing too far. I understand you have to populate a small specialized outfit with the best of the best. Are you really selecting the best of the best? That's the question. Jack just recently did an article about lessening of standards in the Regiment, that's what happens when you take metrics and objectivity too far.

 

My point w/ Recon Marine selection is that there's less rigidity. They've fielded Recon Marines who barely passed BRC before, who in turn did great things, their value was recognize and they continued on. I'm just saying look at how Marines do things, you don't have to copy it exactly, but there's a wisdom in what they're doing.

 

Since the article's about selection, I'm just sharing the Marine perspective, which IMHO is superior (I could be wrong, but I don't think so).

 

pre-9/11, Delta and ST6 reached out to Recon Marines, that's pre-MARSOC, so they saw the value too. 

 

I'd like to see an article detailing how Marine raiders, UDTs, Rangers and Alamo scouts of WWII did their selection. That would be a great add to this discussion.

 

 

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

 @Surge375 Well, I said this to an 18X failure in another article that went to a unit that had a few RFS packets on Benning, and you shouldn't let some bitter RFS packet hurt your idea of the Regiment. If anything it should enforce it. He went on to say they were good dudes that got kicked out for BS reasons, and I can tell you that I've never ever seen anybody get kicked out for BS reasons. Were they good dudes who went on to get promoted quickly a lot of the times? Yeah a lot of the times they were, but these good dudes just weren't good enough to stay in the unit. The standards are high in the Regiment. 

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

SOFREP isn't as fun anymore w/ all the politics going on. This article's kinda like a sanctuary, I really don't care if all of ST6 write a book, I'll still vote for Obama ;-]. Stay safe.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight  

 

Also, keep in mind a lot of my bias stems from that one Ranger turned Marine, I went to BRC w/.

 

For what it's worth, you and Connor have always come up with informative posts, now w/ these other Rangers chiming in, I hope the next Ranger article will be as fun and informative. I hope we'll all reconvene there again. Peace out, bro. For now.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Surge375  @JackMurphyRGR Sorry, I read this and thought you were comparing BRC to SOCOM selections: 

 

"My point w/ Recon Marine selection is that there's less rigidity. They've fielded Recon Marines who barely passed BRC before, who in turn did great things, their value was recognize and they continued on."

 

Without really knowing what's involved in Recon selection, I can't really make an argument. Either way, the 'rigid' parts of RASP that you seem so stuck up on are just basic minimum physical requirements to see if you can hang with the unit. If you can't do a 12 mile road march in 3 hours, you have no business being in the unit. It's that simple. I understand they have similar requirements for Recon.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight  @JackMurphyRGR 

 

You're the one comparing BRC and RIP, I just explained BRC wasn't RIP. That was a good link, I went pre-95, there were people who rolled back, but most of the folks I went w/ passed.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Surge375  @JackMurphyRGR Ok cool. I'm reading from someone that worked there from 95-98 that it had about a 30%-60% attrition and was viewed as both part screening and just a formal school:

http://www.socnet.com/showpost.php?p=385585&postcount=6

 

Regardless, Recon held a selection prior to BRC, so why are you comparing a qualification course to a selection course?

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight   @JackMurphyRGR 

 

They are selection programs, BRC is more geared to teach basic Recon skills. The responsibility of selection is differed to the units sending them. Hence less rigidity and more on the one on one, non-objective point I was trying to make. BRC gives you a grade, say you get a C+, the unit you originated from will take that and work with it. They already selected you, and weight your strengths and weakness. So it's a more personal "selection" or system. That's what I'm trying to share.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

 @Surge375  @JackMurphyRGRRASP/BUD/S isn't either. It's there to select people that can physically and mentally meet the demands of the job. They don't fail someone that for all purposes meets the requirements.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight  @JackMurphyRGR 

 

Yeah, BRC in the early 90s, then went on to do Ranger school, and injured myself, bad enough so I ended up doing my last 2 yrs in garrison.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight  @JackMurphyRGR 

 

My point is that BRC wasn't designed to fail people.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

 @Surge375  @JackMurphyRGR Just curious did you attend and successfully complete BRC?

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

 @Surge375  @JackMurphyRGR Obviously people fail it. I could say the same about MCT or BCT, but somehow motherfucker's fail that too. Hell I could say it about RIP/RASP. I could go through it a million times and pass it. It's not that hard. But obviously people fail it.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight 

 

Anyone who can swim, can pass BRC, bro. It's not that hard.

 

 @JackMurphyRGR , irregardless, this thread has been productive.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

 @Surge375 The point is they still passed BRC. It doesn't matter if you do it by an inch or a mile, you pass. Everybody in the military lives to some standard, other's are just higher than some.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Surge375 No, you don't get it.  We don't care.  The conversations I've had with our Marine writers on SOFREP contain none of the kool aid drinking sillyness that you are insisting upon.  This wasn't an article about Marines and it won't be no matter how hard you try to make it into one.  The next Ranger article is going to come with a serious caveat that any Army/Marine comparison comments are just going to get deleted.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

Don't take my word for it.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Canopylight  @Abn_rngr  @MingoKane 

 

Corroborate it, bro. You got people on SOFREP who've been there and done that. Corroborate it.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Surge375  @Canopylight  @Abn_rngr  @MingoKane I would encourage you to take a step back and re-evaluate what you are writing.  You really sound like someone who does not understand the culture or selection process of the units you are offering your opinion on.  Marines are great, we got that from you already.  No need to drive the point home again and again.

MingoKane
MingoKane 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Canopylight  Perfectly stated...Outdamnstanding.

 

 

Mingo

MingoKane
MingoKane 5pts

 @Surge375  @Abn_rngr And thank you for the support in buying my book, I hope Tom Judah's story rings true in some small way.

 

 

Mingo

MingoKane
MingoKane 5pts

 @Surge375  @Abn_rngr  Surge, please do not get hung up on size. I am above average in height and weight for the average Ranger...Most were 5'8 to 5'10 and 145 to 185lbs. I do see your point and respect your keen observations--but all life is about selection.

 

I have great respect for the Marines (F. Recon), they put us through a scout swimmer course, but in the end...they have their agenda and we have ours. There is no right or wrong and I can only see it from one end of the spectrum. I served my entire enlistment in the 1/75th...I know nothing else.

 

 

Mingo

Surf375
Surf375 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Abn_rngr  @MingoKane 

 

It won't let me post my response down below, my apologies for posting up here.

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Great post & discussion - I'm learning a lot and imagine a LOT of our readers are, too.  Red meat - thumbs up!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraWalkerKC Thanks Laura, the American public doesn't know much about the 75th!

LauraWalkerKC
LauraWalkerKC moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR I love it - more Rangers. I am soaking up the knowledge :)

dm8471
dm8471 5pts

Hey Mr. Murphy, in your personal opinion what did you think was more challenging, RIP or SFAS?

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @dm8471 That's a good question since I went through both.  I actually have a high opinion of both programs and both challenge you in different ways because SF and the 75th are looking for different things to some extent.  RIP certainly left an impression but SFAS was not to be taken lightly either.  I'm not sure which is harder, I guess it depends on the person.

 

Just for a little comparison, my RIP class started with less than 100 students and graduated about 20.  My SFAS class started with 400-something students and graduated about 100.  That's around a 75% attrition rate in both programs.

dm8471
dm8471 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR Thank you for answering! I figured it would be apples and oranges to a large extent but definitely wanted your take on it.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I apologize for turning this into a Marine thread, I was just answering some questions and statements that came up and  posted below. I hope to be of help there. Carry on. Rangers do lead the way.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Surge375 Thanks, let's all take these words to heart and move on, mmmmokay?

Connor31
Connor31 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR Looking over the USSOCOM budget highlights for force structure, it says that SOCOM is projected to grow by 3k military personnel (mainly USASOC), the Regiment will be increasing personnel, and SF is adding a 5th battalion. Could this be the reason for lowered RASP standards? 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Connor31 SF adding a 5th battalion?  No fucking way, they are barely holding onto their 4th battalions.

RANGER ONE
RANGER ONE 5pts

This Vietnam 1971 and almosy the end o the war.I was proud I had an influnce at that time,we were in the Battle of AN-LOC the 70's was a hard time to come back to "The World",be treated like we were.I am so glad I belong to The Wounded Warrior Project Alumni,There was my welcome home,and never again will we treat another soldier like a piece of dong Army,Navy,Marines,and the Airforce.

Connor31
Connor31 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR During FY2013 USSOCOM plans to add its fifth and final 2006 Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR)-mandated Special Forces Battalion, as well as additional forces for the Ranger Regiment, Special Operations Aviation Regiment, and Civil Affairs and Military Information Support Operations Units.

 

Mhmm, I'll take your word for it.

Iassen Donov
Iassen Donov 5pts

@Connor31 @JackMurphyRGR You read it wrong bub, it means USASOC will add the fifth battalion from the original 2006 plan. Doesn't mean add a 5th battalion to each Group.

Iassen Donov
Iassen Donov 5pts

@Connor31 @JackMurphyRGR you read it wrong bub

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Connor31 I think that report is somewhat confused, convoluted, or...something.  They stood up 4th Battalion as additional maneuver units filled with actual ODA's.  Now that these battalions have been difficult to sustain, especially with budget cuts looming, they have been talking about simply folding them into Special Troops Battalions.  There is no way they are creating a 5th Battalion in any Group, anytime soon. 

Connor31
Connor31 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=92223

Sounds like you're right. It seems the 4th battalion was supposed to be the STB, but now they're going to stand up a 5th battalion for that purpose.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @Connor31 That's just laughable to me!  They might be talking about a Special Troops Battalion but there is already a Group Support Battalion and a myriad of other support elements in SF, very few of which support anything or anyone other than themselves.  Usually you have to bribe them with a 5th of JD just to get them off their asses.

Abn_rngr
Abn_rngr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

Great article.  I remember building that O-course when I was cadre.  

RANGER ONE
RANGER ONE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

Thanks guys I gotgoose bumps and started to have a good flashback.OH! t do it all over again I would and more from what I know now.Thanks for rhe memories.OH yes RASP did kick my ass too I don't stll do not know what normal is yet.In 1974 we had canadians with us on a training op.I even miss Hunter Airfield.What a rush I am feeling know I wish I could walk,run and Jump again.

EliasFreire
EliasFreire 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR @Iassen Donov About the standards slipping in recent RASP classes, didn't it comeback to normal yet in the most recent RASP classes?.. or it just became common?

Ben K
Ben K 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Very interesting stuff.  I'm glad to hear that the Regiment is still evolving and will continue to evolve for the foreseeable future.  On an unrelated note, I chanced upon a shit-flinging competition where a Canadian guy was claiming that any standard Canadian soldier was the equal of a Ranger.  Maybe he was talking about Ranger School grads, I'm not sure.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Ben K Most people get stuck up on bare minimums like 80% on a PT test and think that means they can go be a Ranger. Even if he could successfully argue the whole Canadian Army was physically as adept as the Ranger Regiment, it's a clear fact that they don't have the training or capabilities of the Regiment, so I don't know why every conventional unit out there including the 82nd or the Marines think they are Rangers. Apparently, we need to do cool infil methods because that's the only way to get respect from anybody.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Ben K That and have cool Hollywood movies about missions in Mexico.

Surf375
Surf375 5pts

 @Canopylight  

 

Hahahahahahahaaaaaa... Bro. that movie sucked so much ass, I hope they follow it w/ a Part II. Hahahaha...

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