Wall Street Journal Says SEAL Veterans Better Off Collecting Unemployment

 @JHR  @Recon6  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB

Pet peeves...

"They signed a piece of paper and they signed their life away"

"They don't have options so of course they are in the military"

"They shouldn't speak, just follow orders"

"They're uneducated"

If I had a nickel for everytime I was asked "When you getting out?" when I went home on leave (NYC) I could fill the gas tank on my Corvette (and it only takes premium)...

Had a girlfriend who worked for Merryl Lynch in the late 80's.  The arrogance, elitism and snobbish behavior her fellow stockbrokers exuded was over the top.  The jokes... grrrrrrr.  My girlfriend would hustle me out before I fed them a fist sandwich.  I got payback when the market dropped and they were whining.  I offered to open a window...

Another time one of those idiots tried to embarass me by dropping where he went to school (Ivy League, I forgot).  He pressed me for where I went to college.  "Small college overlooking the Hudson". "OH! What was it, Slippery Rock? (chuckle, chuckle chuckle).  "Nah, West Point.  Ever heard of it?  They say most of the people we taught make the history others teach..."       

 @Recon6  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB She had her "convictions"....so many liberals do. Sometime Over Tequila and Beers, and yes, Anchiovies (ICK) I'll tell you why I spent the last year re-doing ll our coporate paperwork and why I lost a year of my life because of a partner and her smart remark about "informing me to demaand money from a veteran who was blown up in Fallujah, "because he is on our Board and everyone contributes". It took me 5 months to set a trap, bget her to quit and get her out of my company. It set our team back a year. My point, You won't believe the amount of liberals out there who think"They signed a piece of paper and they signed their life away", so it is on "them". In other words, there are more Fonda Freaks out there, allot more. I don't waste my time on them. What Jane did was horrendous. I really think Karma has come back to her, in her relationship with her father, with hollywood, with her health and with every bite of food she barfs up.

 @StormR  @majrod  @JHR   Exactly S, Movie Stars in war movies, playing Heroes!  Tho some actually were, like Murphy, Jimmy Stewart, Gable et al.  You were a traitor if you didn't support the Troops and the War.  Can't think of one, but what if, say Lana Turner or Marilyn Monroe (please excuse the age issue there!) but someone of that stature if they had gone to Berlin and played footsie with the Nazi's?  Or if they had gone to Pyongyang?  Just imagine the insanity that would have exploded across America!

And yes, the gutless Pols named it a 'conflict', and then we "Lost".  Look how long before we 'officially" entered Cambodia even tho we had been running missions cross border for years!  If you haven't, read John Meyer's two books, they are excellent!!!  And only a few, a handful, know of him, or Chris Kyle or Brandon Webb.  But they can tell you all about Snookie, or Baby Boo Boo!

Man, we are one dumb assed society, lol.  Whatever happened to Readin, Wrightin and 'Rithmetic??  Where has America gone, and importantly, where is America going?  Check JHR's post about the enemy!    6

Wow, sorry, I keep ranting, need to make it an early nite!

 @JRMayII  @StormR  @JHR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   JR, you know, thinking about it, Fonda 'could' be construed as one of the most influential.  After 40+ years she Still draws ballistic reactions from me, and I'm not totally an idiot.

As an actress she was actually considered a 'hottie' at the time, to some.  To young people that admire people such as her I guess she Was someone to emulate.  If Jane Fonda was against the War, it Must be bad, so let's all get stupid and go protest, and fuck the guys fighting and dying in the jungle.  For black people it was 'whitey' keeping the black man down per usual, and who cares if white guys are right beside them in the jungle, bleeding blood red.

The big War Machine continued to reap huge profits, the Pols continued to enhance their positions, and the American people were slowly turned against the War as kids continued to fight and die.  McNamara said in his book they knew early on we weren't going to do what was necessary to win.  Hanoi wouldn't quit and the public wouldn't continue to support our efforts.  That is why I previously mentioned the book about John Paul Vann, "A Bright Shining Lie" as a great look into the machinations of what went on.  I do want to thank you again for the post with pics, while they disgust me, as you said, there are young people out there that Need to know what she did.      R6

 @Recon6  @majrod  @JHR WWII Movies!  John Wayne, Audry Murphy - yup.   I HATED Apolcaplyse Now.   I often wondered if our history gives short shift to Vietnam because it was the first war America 'lost' - we didn't have have the guts to call it a war - it was 'conflict'.  What kind of mealy-mouthed phrase is 'conflict'?   If you ask the average person on the street today, most can't even tell you when America first went there, let alone why.   LOL - okay, I'm done ranting - I'm beginning to sound like the old fart that I am.

 @majrod   Opinion is supreme, agreed.  Also, it has been 40+ years, plenty of time for the books, news, etc.  Most movies, at least the ones worth watching, came much later after the war.  I think a few books came out at around the 10 year mark?  I am afraid that no one really cares!  As mentioned, it isn't brought up in school!  When I was a student we knew All about the Wars, every War!  Vets were Real Heroes, and there were tons of movies!

I look forward to any study of the war!  A couple of good books, for the Grunt = "Matterhorn" and for a general understanding, " A Bright Shining Lie", probably my favorite, about John Paul Vann, actually gave Hope, for a time.

Guess it all comes down to perception, and as @StormR @JHR  likes to say it becomes 'generational', as to stance and understanding.      6

 @Recon6 I'm blessed with my links to Benning and just the circles I've maintained. 

Agree with most of what you said.  Statement of charges is something I understand since many vets have had a problem but I guess I had a guardian angel.  I was also a common sense kind of guy when it came to signing off for training/combat losses of equipment.  It seems to be an exception.

As for whether Nam era grunts got credit or not, I must agree that no one wanted to talk about Nam and those that served there for TOO MANY years.  When it comes to a general discussion among those that care about the subject, until someone does a study, opinion is going to reign supreme.  I just point to the number of books, news stories and general interest when it comes to grunts and special ops ref the Nam era and I would opine that much of it is about the grunt.  Look at the books, movies and songs…  (e.g. We Were Soldiers, Hamburger Hill, 8th of Nov by Big & Rich etc.). 

 @StormR  We think alike on Many things.  Getting old Sucks!  One can recite all the cliches, do everything to remain as healthy as possible, etc. and still, getting old Sucks!  I have those days you mention too.  I try to find things to keep me physically and mentally active, however, some days just don't seem like getting up for and just don't have the energy.

And the body parts start to fail, lol.  After a bar fight my body was a mess, cuts and bruises etc.  Now, my body Is a mess, lol.  Super Titanium (of some sort) knees and hip and back.  I could go on and on but you know!

This technology stuff, if I can get it to come 'on', I can do this!  I am computer illiterate, but it is 'on'!

Great on the Tatt !!  That is the kind of thing to be doing, get out of your/our comfort zone and go for it!  It is easier with a buddy tho.

Hey, my mother-in-law is 72, my F-I-L passed away earlier this year.  Tonight she is going with a friend to a Country Western night club!!!  She has a Tee shirt and shorts and is going to rock out!  I think it is Awesome, just wish she had invited my wife and I, lol.    R6

 @Recon6  @StormR  @JHR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB I was a kid then, but never bought into the "troops are bad thing". My Dad was in the Corp (1st MarDiv) and he didn't seem to be a baby killer to me. I don't blame soldiers for protracted political conflicts, I blame politicians. I make it a point to remind myself, and everyone who will listen,  of the other side of history that the media ignores. It seems journalism is out and propaganda is in. I knew we lost Barbara Walters when she label Hanoi Jane as one of 100 influential woman. Although at the time she was influential to young people in particular, like many actors do today.

 @Recon6  I don't have the 'inside' knowledge of being a warfighter - which is yet another reason while SOFREP is so valuable to me.  It has changed or enlightened my perspective on a number of things.  When I first got my invitation to join AARP, I cried.  Now I whip that card out for discounts every change I get LOL.    And I'll admit that the 60th birthday was a tough one.  I honestly felt that there was nothing more to look forward too - and truthfully, some days I still feel like that.  But it's hard to keep me down, so I celebrated by  throwing myself a party, cutting my long hair and getting my first tattoo.  I do NOT want to be young again, and I don't try to pretend that I'm not my age - I earned all my wrinkles and warts fairly and I value the life experiences.   But I do often feel obsolete - particularly in this fast-moving technological age.  The older I get, the dumber I feel. 

 @StormR  Yea, you Mom's have That going for you, lol.  We Dads, not so much ;(  Think it might be the Oedipus thing, cause Dads have this male thing going on between us.  Usually goes away I think sometime but my son is making me a doubter!  He adopts a superior attitude like he thinks he knows more than I.  He does, lol.    6

 @Recon6   Now would be a good time to crank up some tunes, Recon :)   My son is 42 and there are subjects we don't ever talk about - politics and child rearing are right on top of the list  LOL.   Since I'm a Mom though, I have a secret weapon.  I put on the "Mom" face and said, "Son,  I gave birth to you - I raised you, and you will NOT use that tone with me and you WILL respect my opinion."  Shuts him up every time :)

 @StormR  @JHR  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   Hey Stormy, I heard the same thing, but my son is 32 years old!  He thinks I am so out of touch we don't discuss certain subjects.  I ask him, "how the hell do you think you went to all those schools and got that education?"  He ignores that one, probably thinks I owed it to him, don't all Progressives think that way, lol.  I long for the day when he says Dad, you weren't/aren't so fkn stupid!     6

 @JRMayII  @StormR  @JHR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB    JR, FUCK man!  You just had to do it, ruin my day completely!  I got started on this subject this a.m. and now you are going to close me out with that Pig!  Talk about 'flashbacks', I will have fkn Nightmares tonight, lucky I can't call you and wake you up, lol.

Cannot tell from your avatar, you may or may not be of that generation?  Since it is 1st Cav it just might mean the same to you as me?

I will Thank You for posting it though, All the World should know Exactly who and What she did and the ramifications of her conduct.  I can forgive anything and anyone, but Not Her.  Traitor is not harsh enough of a word to describe that POS and she will burn in Hell I have no doubt.  Sorry for the rant bro, but see my earlier comments.    R6

 @Recon6  @JHR  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   LMAO at your son comment.  I think it's some kind of rule of the Universe that kids go in opposite directions...and then at some point - years later - they say "Damn, Mom/Dad you were right..since when did you get so smart?"   

 @JHR  @StormR  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   JHR, I really Wish I knew who you are??!!

I will have to talk with AW, offline, and get the scoop!  You post some good stuff!

Your son sounds like my grandson at The Citadel.  He knew about that same age he would be a Marine!!  It was an added benefit, in my opinion, that he decided to be a Marine Officer!  His goal was to be a Marine Aviator but his eyes failed him.  His plan B is to be a JAG Officer.  Plan C is an 0311.

Interesting because I wanted my son to go to Annapolis.  Decorated his room with All things Navy and Top Gun!  He became totally against that, moved to California for college then law school and became a full blown Progressive!

Broke my stinkin heart, lol.   6

 @StormR  @JHR  @Recon6  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB  To refresh the memory or inform the uninformed, an example of her treachery can be found here:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

I am going to the range tomorrow and I think I will use a different target this time. ;)

 @majrod  Thanks for the input on today's Grunt, I am afraid I don't know of any!  I live in a rural area so that does limit my associations.

"in comparison to Nam I believe today's grunts get a heck of a lot less credit", to that I am afraid I don't agree.  Nam Grunts were either ignored or vilified.  There were No organizations to our benefit, none.

I am in agreement on CAS and arty etc.  We had it at our disposal almost everywhere, especially in country, we even had Naval guns a couple of times!

I laugh at the paperwork comment.  From a personal perspective, I got falciparum malaria in the jungle, got med evac'd.  When I returned from the hospital to my unit, the supply sgt. had a "bill for lost equipment", to include, one each CAR-15 etc.  I had the choice of a single payment or payroll deduction.  I tried to explain I had been evac'd, no joy!  If you look at some of the 'kit' comparisons earlier on SOFREP you begin to see the cost, of becoming ill!!!

It seems to me everyone today wants to CYA, only!  We used the term quite liberally in my time, but I admit there is No comparison to what I have read/heard about today.  It is disgusting to me.  We knew if we were wounded, Someone would come get us!!!  My earlier comment about the age of pilots in V.N. shows their bravery.  Like us they thought they were Invincible!!  I took your advice and read "Outlaw Platoon" and cried.  It grabs from the opening pages and never lets go.  I can only assume it is accurate as reviews are Outstanding, thank you.  R6

 @JHR  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   JHR, I felt like I was looking in a Mirror reading That post!!

First, never fear as I discuss nothing from this site with anyone, my wife thinks it is "that Viet Nam thing" so she remains unconcerned.

As for Ms. Pig, agreed, and she Should remain Miserable for the rest of her stinking life and that would Not be enough for the damage she inflicted.  I can recall My reaction when I saw her pic in S & S !!!

I am currently reading Alinsky's book, 'Reveille for Radicals' in an effort to better understand the platform and it's inherent danger.  I went thru the Qur'an for the same reason.  Not sure the American psyche can handle an enemy that believes in warfare 'forever' v. a few years?  Whatever happened to fighting to actually Defeat the enemy, then go home?  I understand why we stayed in Japan after the war, but now it is 'nation building' after warfare.  And the poor ground pounder is out there trying to figure out how in hell he can do all that without getting the UCMJ thrown at him for protecting his buddies.

This just Sucks!!!      R6

 @Recon6  I'm as much a student as you or even the sponsors on this site as I get my insight from the boys coming home since I retired in '05.  Granted, the overwhelming majority of my customers are frontline guys and I have many friends still wearing the uniform and deployed.

From my limited perspective over the last decade the "grunt" experiences ranges quite a bit depending on the year, theatre and component/mission.  The experience of a grunt in Ramadi during the surge is different than the grunt guardsman in '03 (nothing against the Guard).  In comparison to Nam I believe today's grunts get a heck of lot less credit (and I admit this is a personal quest of mine so you'll hear me say it often).

That said, I think you would be SHOCKED at the amount of paperwork, second guessing and JAG oversight that happens when someone is killed or captured in the last three years.  I would also hazard the hoops one has to go through today to get CAS or arty are also significantly greater.  Initials seem to be requested a heck of a lot more.

 @Recon6  @StormR  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB There was no war for my generation, so I followed a different path, then got involved in conflicts from different angles. However, my son and his age group are involved. One of the reasons, was to honor our long linneage of warfighting in our family, including Viet Nam. He klooks up to my uncles that fought. He looks up to those that were in Korea, WW2, WW1 and the intel guys and Marshals. He has it in his blood. At 5, I knew he would serve.

 @StormR  @JHR  @Recon6  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB That was pretty personal what I shared. I only hope it stats on this board. I can back it up, so am not concerned. My point was, she is truly miserble. When you can't hols food down, thats a sign from God. I can see where Viet Nam war was a mess. But not supporting the troops in my mind is a crime. If folks want to protest, son't take it out on a soldier. My problem is, that Liberals think we are in a fear mongering state right now. If they only knew who there neighbors really were, they would run out and buy diapers. I am seriously concerned about safety on U.S. Soil. 9/11 is here in 4 days.

   @StormR  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB  Agreed on '76, and there are a couple of others that don't comment enough.

As a Nation, we never learn.  As a V.N. participant and a M.E. observer, the similarities are frightening.  While the people in charge are Not the same, their responses mirror almost exactly what we experienced.

With few exceptions the ROE's are similar/same, with the exception of more elite units.  I am not exactly aware of what the line Infantry Grunt experienced on a daily basis, perhaps MajorRod?

I was filling out a form yesterday calling for age, i.e. 18-25; 26-34 etc. and finally 65 and over!!!   I thought, Damn! after 65 there is nothing else, lol.  I am one of Those Old People I used to laugh at when younger!   6

 @JHR  @Recon6  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB I'm not a vindictive or mean person by any means, but I most sincerely hope that she IS miserable.  No amount of apology out of her mouth or whatever 'good' she has tried to do since (and frankly, I don't see where she has actually 'done' anything) can erase what she did.  On paper it may not look so terrible, but believe me it was. 

 @Recon6  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB SEAL76 is of our generation and I wish he would comment more.  It's wonderful having someone understand the music/culture references.  Yup, I frequently feel like a dinosaur here and heck, almost anywhere now LOL   The perspective that Vietnam Vets bring to discussion are absolutely invaluable!!  Our pasts do have a strong hand in shaping the future - I certainly believe that the way the government & military handles media things absolutely relates back to that era.  And oddly, it is comforting to know that a number of those in charge in the military are from our era and remember the lessons learned.  We baby boomers are stepping aside, though and soon there will be a rush of us walking out the doors.  And I'll tell you true, almost everyone I spoken with from our generation is haunted by Vietnam in looking at A-Stan.  I hear the same thing over and over again - that once again America tied the hands of it's warfighters, and that we should have gone in there in force, blown it sky high and got out immediately..  

 @JHR  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   LOL, JHR, Thanks!!  "God made her eat her words to Soldiers" just made me Smile !!  She is a....pig.  She had earned and deserves whatever ill befalls her.  She is the Only person on this planet, minus other Evil people, I would say that about.  Again, thanks, lol.    6

 @Recon6  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB I gave  little below. Suffice it to say, she is miserable.

 @Recon6  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB Hanoi Jane is quite the moutpiece. Sitting at the same dinner table with her, a group nd her ex-Ted, she kept leaving the table during dinner. Folks were like "what"? When she came back, there was an odd odor. She is righteously bulemic. Maybe God made her eat her words to Soldiers, now when she eats, it won't stay down. I felt she was hypocrytic.

 @StormR  @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   Stormy, it is interesting, I think we are the two oldest people on this site, at least the two that seem to comment most days.  Our thinking is similar even tho our experiences differ.  Before I had children I had already made up my mind they would be discouraged from military service.  Not from a lack of Patriotism but from a total distrust of government.     6

 @majrod  @Recon6  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB Not now or ever will I discuss anything related in any way, fashion or inference to politics on this site.   And I suppose all anger is self-serving.  I was angry then and I'm angry now about that time period.   My father served in WWII.  When my son was born in 1970, he expressed disappointment that I had a boy.  When asked why, he said "cannon fodder".   Even after 20+ years, his first thoughts were of his history.  The same is true with me.  That time shaped my life, my future and my country.  When this war came along, it also fueled my commitment that this time around, it would be a different homecoming for the warfighters and I am greatly relieved to see that it has been.  I do the same things now that I did then, but I am much less quiet about it.  I can try and understand the root causes of what happened based on personal observation, history and study, but ultimately I am much more concerned with insuring it never happens again.

@StormR@Recon6@tomtadpole@SEAL76@CPB  Storm - I don't contest your experience.  I agree there was anger.  I just believe the anger was self-serving.  I had a soldier once claim he was a concientous objector after notification of deployment.  He actually got pretty angry that the Army really thought they were going to send him to fight as an 11B!  It's much easier to do wrong things if you are angry at something.

Long story, short (because it's entertaining) is he admitted he was afraid of getting killed and REFUSED to deploy.  After a quick conference with my 1SGT we called him and some of our burliest NCOs into my office.  I gave him two choices.  "You can deploy or... (pregnant pause as I reached into a lower desk draw and dropped shackles on my desk) we'll put these on you, carry you onto the airplane and shackle you inside a vehicle when we get in combat and you can burn with the rest of the gear if it gets hit.  You choose."  He later became angry when he wasn't recommended for E5.  Never underestimate someone's ability to be self serving or twist a situation to one's benefit.

My point remains the reason TROOPS WERE DEMONIZED for the first time in our history was that hate directed at troops made them villans and further justified oneself to be against the draft or the war.  

We see the same phenomena when an individual is demonized because of his political party and not by his positions.  Look at OPSEC, they got nailed for being republicans, the heck with their message which is why their party affiliation became a bigger issue than what they were saying. 

Just saying... :) 

 @Recon6  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB  Yes, Recon, I agree that it was the media that fueled the anger and force fed it down our throats - both as related to the war and racial tensions.  It was never the warfighters who were the problem - it was the selfish, ignorant 'look at me' folks left behind.  Fonda was a traitor - simple as that.  It always elicits a bitter laugh from me when they refer to us as the 'peace and love' generation - there was no peace here and I don't know of anyone who was feeling the love.   The media never showed footage of those of us who didn't march in the streets, plant bombs, trash property.  Those of whose who quietly met returning airplanes, wore POW bracelets, wrote letters, sent packages, raised flags, went to work each day and tried to hold this country together for our warriors to have something to return to and tried to show our support and affection for the returning warfighters.   But I honestly believe there were more of 'us' than of 'them - we were just quieter.  And through these long years, we have not forgotten you or your sacrifice.   

 @majrod  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB Majrod, I based my comments and opinions simply from personal experience of that time.  It was my generation and my time period.  I lived in the statewide hysteria, so it isn't a history exercise for me - it's personal history.  It was the men my age - from my neighborhood, circle of friends, family and more that served in that war.  Some enlisted; some were drafted; and I know of only one who dodged the draft.  I was with them before them went; and again with the ones who came home - and not all did.  Some came back who truly never came back.  For years I have tried to make sense of that time period for my own peace of mind.  At home it was very much like a civil war mindset.  Admittedly I have a very narrow view based on my own experiences, but I stand by my opinion that it was anger, not hate that colored every breath we took. 

 @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   Stormy, I think the "climate of anger" was fomented especially by the media.  Everything military became bad.  Then people like Fonda were sensationalized with pics and interviews in Hanoi that were deplorable.

I recall issues of Stars and Stripes with all the issues at home and we all thought, wtf are we fighting for?  I knew a bunch of draftees that could care less about being drafted.  Then came the issues of blacks in the war, something none of us even Thought about until it was force fed to us from the b.s. at home.

Perhaps because of being a volunteer unit we didn't allow it to affect us, we remained brothers.  That being said, a lot of the issues mentioned happening at home did Infect the base camp areas, i.e. drugs, racial violence, anger etc.

As you mentioned, "One of the most shameful periods of American history"    R6

 @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB  I don't buy all those other issues translated into the hate directed at the troops.  For the first time in our history people made a connection between the servicemember and the war.  I think the draft played a big role because by demonizing the soldier one's resistance to the draft took on a moral vs. self serving quality.

Historically we've had other wars that were unpopular like the Civil War that also resulted in HUGE draft riots but the demonizing of troops was a first for Nam and i don't discount the "me" motivation of draft dodgers.

 @JHR  @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB   Damn JHR, here I was having a sunny Sat. morning and you bring up The One female in the world I Hate!!!  I am restraining myself from being kicked off SOFREP because of the language I want to spew on her behalf.  She was directly responsible for getting men Killed!!!  But you know that, I certainly wish I knew what You know about her,   She is a 'hot button issue' !   6

 @JHR  @SEAL76  @tomtadpole  @CPB Self loathing and pity go a long way. Denial is a powerful thing. It is difficult to look at reality and find that ultimately, you are responsible for your own station in life.

 @StormR  @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB Storm, thats a whole nother thread! Kennedy, Nixon, Cuba....Americans still do not know the truth. Kennedy records have gone beyond the 50 year seal date until 75 years. Last weekend, I spent the weekend making cards for Frank Sturgis's dau and grandkids. Frank wenbt to his grave with secrets on Kennedy and Nixon and the CIA. He left a few clues in videos with CBS and Tom Brokaw, but not all of it. And Jne Fonda, her hypocrisy, if her name ever comes up in one of these threds, I'll tell the truth about Miss Jane that will knock your socks off. She had no right to do what she did with the war. She would be better off taking care of her body and mind.

 @SEAL76  @tomtadpole  @CPB How can borderline socialists call conservatives Nazis? Thats a look in the mirror phsycology 101 thing.

 @tomtadpole  @SEAL76  @CPB There was an insane level of anger against the war  and government- which too often was directed against the warfighters.  Horrific things were said to them and my brother said he felt like he was fighting on a war on two front:  Vietnam and home.   I think the anger related to a series of circumstances:  The cold war and Cuba crisis; President Kennedy's assignation; a war that the average citizen didn't understand; Pres. Nixon's disgrace - and why he went down in disgrace; the draft; watching the war on the evening news.  Today there is a climate of fear; in the 60's there was a climate of anger.  The warfighters took the brunt of the anger because they were a visible symbol - this is only a guess on my part.  I consider what happened to them one of the most shameful periods of American history.   

 @SEAL76  @CPB True. i wasnt around then, but from what ive heard/read back in your service days there was a pretty terrible outpouring of hate toward military.  then, and now, it seems those confused people are merely just that--confused, and ignorant.  Even people who throw those terms around in the political sphere today dont really seem to know the true meaning of the term's political nature.  both side's have their share of idiots.  partisan politics are ruining America. 

 @majrod  @SEAL76  @tomtadpole  @CPB I had to pull that one out on an old friend who is 'liberal', when he was using the Nazi card on other friends who were 'conservative'. I asked him if he thought it sounded conservative to him. He didn't reply.

 @JRMayII  @SEAL76  @tomtadpole  @CPB

 I have to save that quote for future discussions on other blogs.

 @SEAL76  @tomtadpole  @CPB "We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." - Adolph Hitler, Speech 1 May, 1927.

People seem to forget that Nazism is a socialist ideology.

 @SEAL76  @tomtadpole  @CPB Good point! I've been called equally bad things by my conservative father for being an independent (I am a registered Rep though). In fact, 'Nazi' was one of the epithets he chose... I forget why. Anywho, looks like good people and bad people on both sides of it. How 'bout that article? You know, I was so convinced that it was 'real' that I posted a bunch of garbage all half-cocked... Felt really silly for that but I think that it drove the message home, don't you?

 @SEAL76 I was Young, The SLA was on my mind and the kidnapping of Patty Hearst. The rumors were grotesque. The family is awesome. Top Notch. Really super folks.The Chicago 7 was there. I think thats when we changed our security apparatus and started the use of the term "terrorist". Shortly after, environmental groups that went too far, were dubbed "eco terrorists" and then the gov. watchdog files started on all the "players". 

 @SEAL76 

Yes, I remember the time well - I'm 62, so it was my time as well.  There was craziness and chaos everywhere - in the streets, in the government, on TV.   There were a few good things that came out of that time period, like the Civil Rights movement and oh myyyy, the music.  And speaking from the heart, Welcome Home.  (And yes, I still say that to VN Vets, including my brother.)

Anyone remember the SDS, Weathermen, Weather Underground, FALN (Armed Forces of National Liberation), The Chicago Seven, Symbionese Liberation Army. All wacky lefty groups. Some did some serious damage back in the day.