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Home » Black Ops & Intel » Bureaucracy in The Spy Ranks

Bureaucracy in The Spy Ranks

by Nada Bakos · November 30, 2012 · Posted In: Black Ops & Intel, SOF News
CIA-bureaucracy-sofrep
Nada wrote this great piece about the intelligence system as it is today. She’s written for us in the past and hopefully we see more from her in the future.  Enjoy.

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The firestorm surrounding the story that U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice told on Sunday morning talk shows five days after the attack on the American diplomatic facility in Benghazi has drawn wildly different reactions around Washington. Bad data? Innocent mistake? Political deception? From the president’s staunch defense of Rice to John McCain’s repeated attacks, different people see different things. But, as a former CIA analyst, I’ve taken a separate lesson from the episode: The office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), created to facilitate interagency analysis and operations, has become a serious bureaucratic obstacle.

For a long time, the CIA ruled the intelligence cycle of collection, aggregation, analysis, and dissemination. But in 2004, the 9/11 Commission recommended the United States unify the intelligence community. Thus, the DNI was born. Today, according to its website, the DNI “serves as the head of the Intelligence Community, overseeing and directing the implementation of the National Intelligence Program and acting as the principal advisor to the President, the National Security Council, and the Homeland Security Council for intelligence matters related to national security.” But, however noble and sensible the intent, the DNI has done very little to remedy the coordination issues — and Benghazi is a perfect example.

On September 16, Rice went on Meet the Press and stated, “Our current assessment is that what happened in Benghazi was, in fact, initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo, almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo, which were prompted, of course, by the [Innocence of Muslims] video.”

Rice has since publicly stated that there was an error in the intelligence she was given — there was not a protest at the facility in Benghazi. But the initial set of talking points from the CIA is said to have indicated that the attackers had links to al Qaeda. So why did she not mention that? A U.S. intelligence official has said, “The information about individuals linked to al Qaeda was derived from classified sources, and could not be corroborated at the unclassified level; the links were tenuous and therefore it made sense to be cautious before naming perpetrators.” So was Rice just being prudent? It’s possible, though her performance was clumsy at best.

benghazi-protest-sofrep

Photo: Esam Al-Fetori/REUTERS

I have no access to classified information from the CIA or DNI on Benghazi, but here’s what might have happened. On the eve of the attack, the analysts at the CIA are reading reports from regional embassies, watching news reports, and poring over cables from assets as the ridiculous anti-Islam YouTube video sparks protests across the region. As the attack in Benghazi ensues, they scramble to assess the situation and draft products for the various consumers — the most sensitive pieces go to select people at the White House, Pentagon, Office of the DNI, and National Security Council. If time allows, an alternative product is scrubbed of the most sensitive information for release across various parts of the U.S. government. In other words, the CIA may (or may not) have disseminated two different sets of talking points: one highly classified to protect sources and methods, and a second for broader dissemination.

Read the rest from Foreignpolicy.com.

About 

Nada Bakos is a former CIA analyst who served on the team charged with analyzing the relationship between Iraq, al Qaeda, and the 9/11 attacks. During the Iraq war, she was the chief targeting officer following Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. After 20 years in the intelligence field and corporate world, she is currently focused on national security issues, illicit networks, human trafficking, and regional stability.

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Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JHR Hey, I am in total agreement on Training.  It is just My opinion the fastest way to become prepared for a

fatal encounter is through being proficient with a hand gun.  Follow on training etc. is definitely encouraged and

rec'd.  Just never been a proponent of martial arts v. an attacker with a gun, or even a knife.

I am of the belief that bad stuff happens to good people every day, thus one must be prepared to defend......6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @hjw1dr Hey that is Great news!!  I am so glad you decided to Immediately pursue this course to

personal safety!  We will all eagerly await updates as to your training and subsequent gun choices

and purchase.  I know you are going to have so much Fun....good for you!....6

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6 Will keep you updated. First training will be a 2-3 hour training ( intro-beginner stuff) after Christmas. Then I'll prob purchase and return to him for more instruction. He has shooting range, so... I suppose it will be practice, practice, practice. :)

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Thank You for the article Nada! Your sentence " The office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI),  created to facilitate interagency analysis and operations, has become a  serious bureaucratic obstacle" hit me through the Heart.

 

After the dust settled, It struck me that there were 2 or more talking points and I said "Oh My God". The ramifications of throwing a curve talking point to the admin and not having it digest nor even be palatable, caused more problems than it was worth. Could that curve lob have been politically motivated? I wondered as it was so close to the election. If not, Why? With the recent influx of the use of social media tools, this may have been a "new" lesson for everyone in that information gets passed on a global scale in a matter of seconds. This means administrations can no longer afford to say or do what may have been status quo in the past in the interest of national security.

 

I think it is fair to say there are many people that understand the ideal of a seamless system amongst intel and the fact that this has not happened and we now have a mess on our hands. This not so seamless point has struck me hardest in the past 18 months. Its broken, needs fixing. Reports and Intel are not getting to where they need to go. Some have mentioned the sliding over of folks from DIA to CIA as the dissatisfaction grew in the past decade. DIA is now increasing their employment numbers. FBI has issues with getting info to another agency at times, namely to the DIA. Why? Whats the roadblock? If enough really good operators and analysts keep jumping ship, its' going to make the situation worse. Intel needs support and stability, this is the one area that will casue a meltdown and we cannot afford to  let this go further.

 

 

 

 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JHR  "Reports and Intel are not getting to where they need to go. Some have mentioned the sliding over of folks from DIA to CIA as the dissatisfaction grew in the past decade. DIA is now increasing their employment numbers. FBI has issues with getting info to another agency at times, namely to the DIA. Why?  "  

 

Actually the way the this bureaucratic mess is developing makes me think there are a lot of MBAs and Lawyers are running them. It reminds me of the organizational mess aka: "musical seats" that once ran wall street (Fed Reserve Bankers and analysts that were once Investment Bankers) and are in Entertainment business (Agents who become Studio Execs - who become producers/ agents). 

 

Washington DC has the same revolving door -- just different titles that get passed around. 

Sonnys Mom
Sonnys Mom 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Or as political cartoonist Michael Ramirez might say...

http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2012/12/02/105459

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @TKW406  TK, this sucks, but I can't bring up your excellent comment!!

I wanted to Rec it because you were/are right on about the general public

being apathetic to what is happening in our country.

All the 'news' today has been "Gun Control, Guns Bad, Ban Guns" ad nauseum..6

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @TKW406 You feeling better 6? Hope so.. nasty flu running around.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @hjw1dr  @TKW406 LOl, no shit!!  This stuff must actually kill people,

no joke.  Avoid anyone that has it, I am not even sure y'all are safe associating with

me on REP !!  Last time I was this 'sick', I had malaria and begged to die, lol....6

JHR
JHR 5pts

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 I agree with you:-) One thing in my book, learning self defense raises a persons situational awareness (or teaches a semblance of it), teaches tactics (stalling-excelleration), teachers a person about cover/concealment, etc. etc. etc.....The last thing you want to do is shoot a person. You also do not need a green person getting a gun taken away from them, thats the worst deal. Without some training on defense, can you slow your heart rate? Can you think clearly under an attack? Can you describe/determine cover/concealment/exit plan in a few seconds? You need to outsmart, outhink your attacker-be ready for what is thrown at you. What if there are 2+ attackers? Thinking quick on your feet, there is something to be said for that. That can only be trained for. If you have not, some folks freeze.

 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Sonnys Mom  @CJCJ  @Recon6  @TKW406 

Thanks all!.

I think I've found a good instructor. He is is a retired Austin PD instructor. Started his center in 1991. He has been featured in media from the Outdoor Channel and BBC network to SWAT, Gun World and Concealed Carry magazines, as well as blogs and local radio & TV.  Has a great rep, so I think I'm set. (I looked it up after we talked)

 

He will teach me personally, and instruct me in use and safety, cleaning, etc... of up to 4-5 different handguns. Has a center about an hour away, and has hosted other well known instructors -- I guess ( really didn't know any of the names he mentioned-- since that's not my specialty). He does tactical training too... but I don't think I will go that far.  

 

(Keep in mind--- I graduated from a school that had this motto: "Excellence" - so I you bet I'll work till I get it right :)

 

Thanks everybody for your suggestions... helped a lot. At least, I don't think I sounded like a complete idiot on the phone. :)

 

 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts

 @Tango9 

 Just for that now I need to know more about the EVLoDaS. One of these days my curiosity will be the end of me, I know :)

Sonnys Mom
Sonnys Mom 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@hjw1dr

hjw... to help get started, find out whether your local gun clubs host an annual "open house" or "ladies' day" for beginners.  This is a great way to try out a variety of guns and learn what feels like a good fit for you. Gun club members are super-patient with guests, willing to explain and answer beginners' questions.

This type of event plus reading websites is a great introduction to your state's NRA affiliate groups, local clubs and private ranges and certified instructors, as you seek out small group instruction.

Beyond a basic firearms safety course, the next step might be a practical skills course to get comfortable with all aspects of handling the gun you've chosen. After that you might seek out practical training courses, listed under names like "defensive pistol" or "tactical home defensive safety" or "combat focused shooting".

Even for civilians, there are countless opportunities to get practical experience and meet more like-minded people. The learning never stops.

 

@CJCJ@Recon6@TKW406

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 Yeah you can give that e-mail out freely.  It's not the one connected to my Evil Villain Lair Of Doom And Stuff (tm)

Sonnys Mom
Sonnys Mom 5pts

 @Tango9  @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406  OMG, 9 -- I kept getting mental images this past weekend about some sort of meetup... thanks!

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9

 Got ya' covered - go for it. I even promise not to drink it while you are working your magic.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA I dazzle pretty well.  Hold my beer ;)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  

 Keep in mind that Plan A usually only works because there is a well thought out Plan B :) Go Ashter! I'm OK with a bit of a splurge for this, but we should make sure others are comfortable with it when we see how much magic you really do wield. Dazzle me :)

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @CJCJ I will promise you guys that I will do my best to get the lowest rates possible.  WARNING:  it IS a 5* hotel.  It's worth every penny, but it could be pricey.  I'll twist some arms and kidnap some children and see what pops.  Wife said we should have a Plan "B."  Silly girl.

 

Plan A always works, have no idea what she's talking about, yet she's exploring some strange thing she refers to as Plan B.  Nonsense, in my opinion, but I just let her go do her thing...

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Recon6"

9, REC'D totally brother.  If I were younger I would Love to go to Don's, unfortunately for me, in my day we weren't afforded that type instruction.  Bro, I Envy you this experience, and bet your ass we will All be waiting excitedly for your 'stories'!!!!   Bro, your gonna bring it and we will eat it up, damn!  I get excited just thinking about it, I so wish I could go!!!

You will make us Proud, I have No doubt.

Thanks for sharing the Intel on the book!!  That is the type stuff I wasn't aware of, I knew you had met BW, but that was all.  Good stuff bro, good stuff....6"

 

Brandon is going to be on a bullhorn in April, but I can't make that class because of teaching commitments.  How much fun would that be?  I want to run the basic course and the sniper course, that's the goal, and having BW yelling at me as I put in the dope would just about make my summer.

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA 

It sounds like it could be a lot of fun, but at this point I can't say for sure whether we can make it. I'll check with my swim buddy to see how her schedule looks. 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts

 @CJCJ  

 CJ - do you want to come to CO in June for our SOFREP gathering?

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 

" I fired 14 rounds into a silhouette at 25 feet, now remember I Love my Glock, But there were Only two (2) holes in the target, the first in the 8 ring, and one hole in the center!!  No shit, with a new gun I put 13 shots together in the center!  LOL, I still can't believe it, so I brought the target home and showed my wife (she thinks I took out the center with a pencil, lol)  I am right eye dominant because it is the Only one I have, lol."

 

Excellent.

 

I'd be challenged to do what you did with two good eyes. Color me jealous.

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 

6, If you can "walk the talk" it ain't bragging. Good on you bro. 

Txazz
Txazz 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  @JHR  @Recon6  @TKW406 Way to go folks and sounds lika a kickin' good time you're planning.  A lil out of my league or I would be IN, too.  Will have to live vicariously through all the fun of planning.  Go for it!  Rep Mafia Rules!

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JHR  @Recon6  @TKW406  JHR- great idea. There is a training center that does both. Has a self-defense course taught by a female instructor (cop). Was thinking about it. I'm in shape, but may have to work a little harder at my age. :)

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JHR  @hjw1dr  @TKW406  J, I am not going to disagree, But I would personally reverse your suggestion, imo, it is quicker to 'learn' to be somewhat proficient with a pistol than pd classes, and should a hand gun be required for self defense, that self defense class isn't going to do you a lot of good, Please give me your take....6

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JHR 

 I forwarded an email to you. be on the lookout.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406 @Old PH2 I have sent you all an email with my new gmail account for this event. Be on the lookout.

 

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @CJCJ  @hjw1dr  @TKW406   Hey hj, didn't mean to brag, but yea, I was bragging lol.  The SR9c is a smaller hand gun than a Glock 19, much narrower, and due to fitting my hand better (to my chagrin!), handled better.

My Point being, there is so much out there, and even an Old Dog can learn new things....the Very reason I joined REP and remain......6

JHR
JHR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 Hey Holly, Just a suggestion, I would take personal defense classes prior to taking gun safety and shooting classes, before you ever own a gun. Just my take....J

 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @CJCJ  @TKW406   "

Constant training that never ends is the only sure way to be prepared, and Never having to utilize that training is my Mantra.....6"

 

So true.  will keep that in mind! The other is what my brother asked me.  "If you carry, will you be willing to use it? If not, don't carry."  He's a physician... so he knows the damage a bullet can do... but worse what would happen if a perp used it against you.  

 

I always wondered if I could. Then I was in a situation that made me take the idea of having a gun seriously. One was at an old workplace in Dallas... a guy carried a gun into work -- luckily he was talked down... but..  Te other was at ft hood (my company has a satellite office up there. I wasn't  personally at the shooting, but I dealt with the aftermath--  

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @Tango9   Hey T9, what's the CCW laws in Colorado?  I think this group should probably know about that!

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @CJCJ  @hjw1dr  @TKW406   Lol, CJ, she has carried her Glock for 15 years, first and only gun she Wants!!  Quick story, I recently took a Ruger SR9c to the range for fun.  I also have carried my G-19 forever.  Anyway, I fired 14 rounds into a silhouette at 25 feet, now remember I Love my Glock, But there were Only two (2) holes in the target, the first in the 8 ring, and one hole in the center!!  No shit, with a new gun I put 13 shots together in the center!  LOL, I still can't believe it, so I brought the target home and showed my wife (she thinks I took out the center with a pencil, lol)  I am right eye dominant because it is the Only one I have, lol.

Anyway, I now carry a 15 rd Ruger SR9c for ccw, no shit.....6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Tango9   9, REC'D totally brother.  If I were younger I would Love to go to Don's, unfortunately for me, in my day we weren't afforded that type instruction.  Bro, I Envy you this experience, and bet your ass we will All be waiting excitedly for your 'stories'!!!!   Bro, your gonna bring it and we will eat it up, damn!  I get excited just thinking about it, I so wish I could go!!!

You will make us Proud, I have No doubt.

Thanks for sharing the Intel on the book!!  That is the type stuff I wasn't aware of, I knew you had met BW, but that was all.  Good stuff bro, good stuff....6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @hjw1dr  @CJCJ  @TKW406 hj, I will Only add, Please follow up on this!!  I fear for each of us everyday as more and more scum emerges from their lairs to pounce on the unsuspecting, Especially females.

Constant training that never ends is the only sure way to be prepared, and Never having to utilize that training is my Mantra.....6

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  

This is such a cool idea. And place for people who have similar vibes to  meet.  And you're absolutely right about being friends with people who make you stretch.  Isn't that what life is.... adapt or die? :)

 

FYI: sent you an email, 9.  

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 

Absolutely. Safe but Fun. Sounds like a .22 derringer style may be a cheaper option, but I wouldn't recommend trying to take her 19 - especially after you forgot her birthday!  lol

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LauraKinCA  Will send a message to you on FB.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @CJCJ  @Recon6  @TKW406  "

CJCJ- "Good to see. You are apparently aware that there are those out there who claim all sorts of things, including being fire arms instructors. Checking with friends for personal references may also be helpful. "

 

I've been careful. I also noticed there are NRA approved courses. I would assume that is usually state license compliant too. I'm really looking for individual or small group instruction... and a resume of law enforcement academy instruction or similar. 

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @CJCJ  @hjw1dr  @Recon6  Don't know how it works down there but your local Sheriff's office might be a good source for a referral.

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr 

 I sent you my email in a FB DM earlier. If you want me to use another one send me a message back.

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 

"I am researching good courses in this area. (central Texas). So far found one that is taught by a guy who claimed he was in instructor.  But taking my time.."

 

Good to see. You are apparently aware that there are those out there who claim all sorts of things, including being fire arms instructors. Checking with friends for personal references may also be helpful.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @Recon6  @TKW406  I don't care if they come or not actually. We aren't friends or anything.. and it would be weird - so invite them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they bail. :)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406

 That's fine. We will extend the invite to Brandon and Jack and hope they come, but go on as we please inviting the main group that wants to gather.

 

6 - yes, you are making up the list of the folks that have expressed wanting to go to camp and I know there are others. We can put up a call out to all who want to come.

 

Tango9 are you ok with anyone contacting you at that email to let us know who wants to come?

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406 Laura you can reach me through facebook email... Will look for it.

thanks

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @TKW406   9, also, This is Our SOFREP Mafia group!!  And Stormy, and LWKC, et al....6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts

 @Tango9  @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @TKW406   9, not an issue for me.  I interact more with the people who are talking right now, plus a couple of others like Fan and PH, I can't list them all, but they are my main concern as to Fun....6

And Matt and AW and, and and and  see what I mean?....6

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 I don't think brandon or jack are particularly interested in a SOFREP meet-up.  So.... if we want to seriously do this it's not going to be officially sanctioned.  I know them both a little bit and they turtle up on topics like this.  I'll stick to those dates, but don't expect a stamp of approval from the boys.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 if you guys ever need to PM me do it via twitter:  @tango9AF

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406

 Holly, I have emails for Recon6 and TKW and now T9 (as well as JHR, Storm and Ph2), so I will send out a group email later this afternoon.

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 yeah... probably.  Amazingly enough mod access doesn't give me your e-mail.  admin@greyttimes.com

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts

 @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406  9 - suppose we should set up a way to swap emails. Or are you a moderator and have access to that stuff? 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @CJCJ  @Recon6  @TKW406  Thanks CJ. I am researching good courses in this area. (central Texas). So far found one that is taught by a guy who claimed he was in instructor.  But taking my time...

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Recon6  @TKW406  @hjw1dr It's a party!  I will do my level best to coerce the Broadmoor staff into giving us the best deal possible.  Give me 2 weeks, I have a lot of stuff on the table atm (end of semester and some stuff I promised to get done for some people...and stuff). 

 

You call up with a story about veterans and how lonely life is without all your lost friends and you'll be surprised at how fast the price goes down.  You'd think that would be shameful but every friend I've lost would be cheering me on, in fact, they'd kick my ass if I didn't do it, so not so much.  You do what you gotta do.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @CJCJ  @hjw1dr  @TKW406  CJ, good stuff!  Lots of Intel out there, but make it Fun.  Some ranges have 'leagues' etc. 'ladies nites' etc. and my wife Loves to shoot, cept she thinks her Glock 19 is a mg.,lol  goes thru ammo in a heartbeat....6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TKW406  @hjw1dr TK, that's it!  Great golf too....6

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TKW406  You're right. Green Briar it is. Was there too for a conference once. 

CJCJ
CJCJ 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 

hj,

I'll defer to others with more experience but here are a few things to consider;

 

1. Obtain training from a well respected and reputable instructor.

2. What you buy must fit your hand.

3. What you buy must be of a caliber that allows you to fire it with accuracy.

 

There's much more to consider but hopefully these will be helpful. I seem to recall the Loadout Room has had some articles on this subject.

 

 

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406 

9-  "SO, having said all that:  15-17 June 2013.  I'll take the lead and call the broadmoor and tell them to evacuate the dance floor. "

 

A man who dances!  I'm in! 

 hj

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  I think that's the Green Breier or something.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @LauraKinCA  @Tango9  @TKW406  I thought there was a hotel in NC.  Some history there too. With the old Nuclear War room for the govt.   But maybe I have them mixed up?  

THere is another in CO. 

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TKW406  @hjw1dr  @Tango9   9, you Exceed your Rep, lol..6

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @TKW406 Broadmoor - colorado springs :)  Whenever things like this pop up, as you kids know, you don't do theoreticals, you pick dates, hammer them in and then work your way out.  I'm going to Don's course in Jun/Jul (he hasn't published dates that are solid past April).

 

But you pick something and that's the starting point.  SO, having said all that:  15-17 June 2013.  I'll take the lead and call the broadmoor and tell them to evacuate the dance floor.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts

 @hjw1dr  @LauraKinCA  @Tango9  @TKW406 hj, isn't there also one in NC?  Someplace east?  Colorado sounds great....6

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Recon6  @Tango9   T9, holy shit that place is incredible.  Just another one of your "sources"?

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406  Broadmoor... CO.  Of course. What was I thinking?  

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @Tango9  @TKW406  I'm in! YES!   Oh, wait does that mean I'm in trouble?  Nah.... instigate trouble tho...Laura's and my specialty. :)

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406

 Always wanted to visit Colorado Springs. Looks like this will be the occasion. Count me in!

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406  Tango9- nice deal! Unbelievable actually!  Wow... 

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @hjw1dr  @Tango9  @TKW406   hj, you forgot the "I'm IN"

part, lol.  Cause you are!....6

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @Recon6  @TKW406 

9-run it by folks in the "know" and I'm sure we could figure something out.. I visited Broadmoor ages ago. What a place! North Carolina, right?  Would be fun to get together. 

 

 

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Tango9  @hjw1dr  @TKW406   9, I'm IN !!....6

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 http://www.broadmoor.com/

amazing hotel.  if we time it right and get a deal you're looking at $400 for two nights.  Prices published are like 3x that but grandpa was a senator so I can wiggle some old school "I know that's the price, but I'm really zexy" stuff on the phone.  Manipulation 101. 

 

4 golf courses, 5 resteraunts.  call the ball.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tango9  @hjw1dr  @TKW406   9, I'm in!!  Perhaps a 'place' centrally located?  I'm in Florida, but for this bunch, I will go anywhere, lol.

Give it to the ladies, they do this shit well....6

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @hjw1dr  @TKW406   Damn!  hj, I deleted a 'perfect' story this a.m. from a 'gun rag' on exactly that subject.  Can't bring it back up, but he broke it all down for 'first time gun buyers', and Not to just  follow the guidelines posed by the person selling you the gun.  His final point = buy a 9mm from the manufacturer you 'Like".....6

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 and this is why we need a SOFREP meet-up.  BW and J aren't going to do it so I'll do it.  Summer next year.  It'd be perfect if ya'll came and stayed at the Broadmoor (5*..... and Oh it's awesome and I can get you deals), but mileage and frequent flyer miles being what they are I know not everyone can do that so let's pick a spot and get it done.

 

Mission Planning.

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @TKW406 

Hey, Recon6-- forgot to thank you for suggesting that 4th rule on the personal protection plan. Yes. CCW is good. I live in Texas but haven't got one yet. I grew up in a gun toting family (my brother collects guns and likes to craft ammo... used 308 at age for hunting at 15).  Weird, but I've never learned to shoot.

Was thinking of signing up for a course for beginners. But don't know enough about guns to know what kind of handgun to get (my brother suggested a 9mm glock, but it seems large for my hands). I want to try several guns at a range before purchasing.

All you gun geeks suggest away. 

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @hjw1dr  @TKW406 hj, yes I was making the comparison because I really preferred death to what I experienced.  That will be another of my 'stories for camp' .....6

hjw1dr
hjw1dr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @TKW406 Recon6, I've had all my shots...(sheesh that sounded bad)-- repeat after me... "I'm not a dog, I'm not a dog!"  (Maybe a bitch... but not a dog.)

 

From what I've read in CDC notices (I get them) this flu is NASTY. Three different strains combined. I got a shot. That and others... I'm asked to do evals by judges,  some indigents, so illegally here etc. ... and you never know where they've been or what they are carrying.  

 

 

Tango9
Tango9 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @Recon6  @hjw1dr  @TKW406 don't go dying on us.  There'd be the bit about everyone having to drive out to the funeral and the cost of the beer.  Good lord.  You stay upright or I'll kill you!

 

wait...

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