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Home » SOF History » Shaping the World from the Shadows: The (Open) Secret History of Delta Force, Post-9/11 (Part 3)

Shaping the World from the Shadows: The (Open) Secret History of Delta Force, Post-9/11 (Part 3)

by Chris Martin · May 16, 2012 · Posted In: SOF History
delta2x
Part 3 of 5

Related Posts
  • Shaping the World from the Shadows: The (Open) Secret History of Delta Force, Post-9/11 (Part 4)
  • Shaping the World from the Shadows: The (Open) Secret History of Delta Force, Post-9/11 (Part 2)
  • Shaping the World from the Shadows: The (Open) Secret History of Delta Force, Post-9/11 (Part 5)

 

The Industrial (Counter-Terrorism) Revolution

 

The early days following the invasion of Iraq saw joyous celebrations of Saddam Hussein’s ouster spill out into the streets. However, those streets soon took on a very different feel. The nation devolved into chaos and bloodshed, and as much as the Coalition attempted to ignore or deny it, an ugly sectarian conflict cascaded into civil war. Several tens of thousands were killed as Sunni and Shi’a Muslims battled it out in an ever-escalating series of attacks, typified by Sunni suicide bombings and Shi’a death squad hits.i

The violence was not exacerbated so much as driven by the calculated campaigns of foreigners who pulled strings on either side of the equation, fanning the flames of civil war.

The United States had cited questionable al-Qaeda connections to Saddam’s Iraq as a motivating factor in support of the invasion. If anything, America’s presence as a result of the decision to invade made those fears real; a significant al-Qaeda threat arose in Iraq in order to wage jihad on the ‘infidels.’

Led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) was arguably even more bloodthirsty than its parent organization. Zarqawi’s brutal tactics, actively targeting Shi’ites and Westerners alike, were initially discouraged by Osama bin Laden and his #2, Ayman al-Zawahiri. However, they ultimately decided it best to just get on board and ride the wave of the Jordanian’s rising popularity (and death toll).ii

In some ways, the United States helped fuel Zarqawi’s notoriety, placing a $25 million bounty on his head. That matched the largest ever offered by the nation, equaling the bounties placed on Hussein, bin Laden, and Zawahiri. And by 2006 Zarqawi was viewed as the nation’s top target, prioritized by JSOC ahead of even bin Laden.iii

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Quds Force of the Revolutionary Guard Corps was arming and training Shi’a militas to serve as Iranian proxies.iv

The Americans weren’t just caught in the middle, they were the primary target of all involved. IED attacks and ambushes by any number of parties who could simply slip back into the population became the on-ground reality.

The United States and its allies were not without means to combat the situation, however, thanks in large part to the fast-evolving JSOC. And Delta Force was JSOC’s centerpiece weapon with which to fight.v

Defense Secretary Rumsfeld had been frustrated both by interagency squabbles with the CIA and the inability to reliably provide JSOC’s SMUs with actionable intelligence in the early stages of the Iraq War (and prior to that). To rectify the situation, he took full advantage of loosened restrictions and an open-ended mandate following 9/11 to rebuild the Command, empowering JSOC to take shape as a proactive, self-contained terror-fighting powerhouse on a scale never previously imagined.vi

At the same time, Rumsfeld selected a new ‘Pope’: General Stanley McChrystal. (‘The Pope’ is the nickname traditionally given to JSOC’s commander in reference to a comment Attorney General Janet Reno once made in regards to the Command’s legendary secrecy.)vii

McChrystal turned out to be exactly the unstoppable force needed to guide such an ambitious transformation. However, rather than isolate this newly-augmented ‘National Missions Force’ as may have been Rumsfeld’s original intent, the one-time 75th Ranger Regiment commander went the other way entirely, emphasizing open communication in order to cut through layers of inter and intra-agency bureaucracy. Those efforts would dramatically improve JSOC’s ability to collect, analyze, and act on intelligence.viii

JSOC’s budget, capabilities, and collection of units exploded in the years following 9/11.ix In addition to Delta, ST6, the Air Force’s 24th STS, and the Command’s usual attachments ‘borrowed’ from SOCOM proper — the 160th SOAR and the 75th Ranger Regiment — JSOC also absorbed the mysterious Mission Support Activity (MSA or simply ‘the Activity’) in 2003. The Command also took control of a number of other low visibility units, among them the Joint Communications Unit, Aviation Tactics and Evaluation Group, Technical Applications Program Office, Ground Applications Program Office, and the 66th Air Operations Squadron. It also significantly pumped up its fleet of MQ-1 Predators and MQ-9 Reaper drones. Combined, the expansion elevated JSOC’s intelligence, logistical, technological, and operational capabilities. (For further detail on its current composition see Marc Ambinder and D.B. Grady’s highly informative ebook, The Command: Deep Inside the President’s Secret Army.)x

McChrystal’s efforts to play nicely with others saw JSOC further bolstered by increased cooperation and integration with the CIA, NSA, MI6, FBI, non-JSOC military intelligence units, other special operators, conventional forces, and civilian contractors… just about anyone the General could get his hands on who could make JSOC a more effective machine.xi

Constant UAV surveillance (complete with DVR-like functionality for complex movement analysis which allowed, for example, car bombs to be traced back to their point of origin and likely areas of future insurgent activity to be predictedxii) and near-complete control of Iraq’s newly established cellular network (including wearable cell phone homing sensors for assaulters) added to the remarkable intelligence fusion. Combined it became known as “the unblinking eye.”xiii

While the end goal may be to finish terrorists and/or save hostages, units like Delta are intelligence driven.xiv No matter how proficient Delta’s operators may be as gunfighters and hostage rescuers (and they have long been considered among the world’s best — if not the preeminent unit — for that particular sort of work), it means precious little if their HK416s can’t be pointed in precisely the right direction at precisely the right time. Nor does it matter if they aren’t given permission to take action even when they can.

By 2005, JSOC had become extremely adept at enabling Delta and other direct action units to do what they do best.xv Never before was the Unit so well supported from above, alongside, and behind. F3EAD (Find, Fix, Finish, Exploit, Analyze, and Disseminate) became the order of the day, and the finishers of this particular equation finally had a supporting cast to match their considerable talents.xvi

As a result, General McChrystal and his chief intelligence officer (or J2), General Michael Flynn, laid the groundwork for JSOC to radically increase its OPTEMPO to levels that became referred to as “industrial scale counter terrorism.”xvii

In contrast to 2004 when JSOC units went out on a raid every few days in Iraq, soon the Command would be conducting a relentless campaign of non-stop assaults. Night after night, they took the fight to the enemy, executing hundreds of raids per month.xviii Thanks to F3EAD, each raid secured new intelligence that could be rapidly processed and initiate a wave of follow-up raids — sometimes launched within hours of the one that produced the intel to spark them.xix

Some assault teams were augmented with embedded FBI case agents who helped to efficiently process sites and instantly interrogate new captives, further streamlining the process. (When McChrystal initially requested FBI agents, the Bureau sent him operators from the FBI’s civilian Delta-equivalent, the Hostage Rescue Team, to which McChrystal responded, “I’ve got shooters… I need Sipowicz.”xx)

As first described by Sean D. Naylor in Army Times, JSOC’s task force in Iraq (then known as ‘Task Force 145′) sectioned off the country for its direct action elements. Included were Task Force West/Blue (SEAL Team Six with Ranger support), Task Force North/Red (Ranger-driven with a Delta element), and Task Force Black/Knight (rotating squadrons from the British SAS and SBS (primarily SAS as the SBS took ownership of Afghanistan)). Task Force Black was renamed Task Force Knight around the same time it was fully integrated into the campaign and effectively deputized as a JSOC SMU.xxi

At some point, a U.S. Army Special Forces CIF (Combatant Commander’s In-Extremis Force) companyxxii and the Iraqi commando unit they were training (perhaps the Iraqi Special Operation Forces 2nd Counter Terrorism Battalion — Iraq’s premier CT unit) were added to the mix to help counter the growing Iranian influence.xxiii

And at the heart of the operation was Task Force Central/Green composed of a Delta squadron with Rangers in support. Additionally, Delta’s commanding officer ran the day-to-day operation of the entire show from Task Force 145′s high-tech Joint Operations Center (JOC) at Balad Air Base.xxiv

 

In Who’s Image?

 

Despite executing thousands of raids of near-unfathomable intensity and violence (over half of the Unit’s operators are said to have been wounded in action during the campaign, and, as they say, ‘you should see the other guy’xxv), Delta’s revolutionary campaign against AQI has gone relatively undocumented to date, with just a handful of operations detailed to any significant degree.

Perhaps the most revealing peek into its activities yet was delivered with a distinctly British slant via Mark Urban’s account of the SAS’s involvement in Iraq, Task Force Black.

Task Force Green and Task Force Knight shared common quarters at MSS Fernandez and frequently operated jointly, both officially and informally. As the CT revolution got underway, the SAS troopers enviously took note at what the Unit was up to. Eventually they were allowed to take part in the campaign at a similar level.xxvi

Historically at least, the SAS could best be described as Delta Force’s parent organization. The Unit was founded in the SAS’s image by Delta’s original commanding officer, Colonel Charlie Beckwith. Beckwith had become enamored with the British unit’s capabilities during a stint with the SAS as an exchange officer in the ’60s and fought hard to get permission to build a similar force for the United States.xxvii

A common thread runs throughout Task Force Black that makes it difficult not to come away with the impression that the units’ relationship has since evolved. Today they seem to exist almost like siblings, with Delta — backed by the enormous might and budget of the United States military machine (and JSOC in particular) — playing big brother to the SAS’s little brother.

Besides merely wanting in on some of Delta’s action, the SAS’s commanding officer at the time, Lt. Col. Richard Williams, openly admired General McChrystal and was described as an unabashed Americanophile who “would probably have preferred to have commanded Delta.”xxviii He constantly challenged Task Force Black (mockingly referred to as “Task Force Slack” prior to their JSOC integrationxxix) to match the pace and intensity of the Americans. And when the SAS was at its most lethal, Urban described it as “operating in the style of Delta.”xxx

The units’ assaulters even began to look more and more alike. The SAS is described as transitioning to the practice of wearing their sidearms on the front of their body armor in a similar fashion to the Americans rather than in leg holsters as they typically had previously,xxxi while also adopting the same Crye Precision MultiCam camouflage gear that was popular with Delta operatorsxxxii — some even complete with Stars and Stripes-adorned ‘Fuck al-Qaeda’ patches.xxxiii

Delta showed their solidarity with the SAS when the Unit’s commanding officer offered the services of his operators after two SAS troopers had been taken captive and held in Basra’s Jamiat police station (services that were not required as the SAS ultimately recovered its men).xxxiv

The SAS returned the favor by donating to the Unit’s ‘widows and orphans fund’ in the wake of the heavy losses sustained during the relentless, nightly fights with AQI jihadists.xxxv

The relationship was (and almost certainly remains) remarkably tight with considerable camaraderie and mutual respect — and of course, a healthy sibling rivalry just to keep things interesting.xxxvi

Coming in Part 4: “JSOC is Awesome”

Buy the full article on Amazon for .99 cents!

i “Elements of ‘civil war’ in Iraq,” BBC News (February 2, 2007), http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6324767.stm.

ii Peritz and Rosenbach, Find, Fix Finish, 124.

iii Sean D. Naylor, “SpecOps unit nearly nabs Zarqawi,” Army Times (April 28, 2006).

iv William Branigin, “Iran’s Quds Force was blamed for attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq,” The Washington Post (October 11, 2011), http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/irans-quds-force-was-blamed-for-attacks-on-us-troops-in-iraq/2011/10/11/gIQAPqv0dL_story.html.

v Naylor, “SpecOps unit nearly nabs Zarqawi.”

vi Dana Priest and William M. Arkin, Top Secret America: The Rise of the New American Security State (New York: Little, Brown and Company, 2011), 227.

vii Ambinder and Grady, “Interrogations and Intelligence,” in The Command.

viii Priest and Arkin, Top Secret America, 238-243.

ix Marc Ambinder, “The Secret Team That Killed Osama bin Laden,” The Atlantic (May 2, 2011), http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/the-secret-team-that-killed-osama-bin-laden/238163/.

x Ambinder and Grady, “When You See The Word National,” in The Command.

xi Priest and Arkin, Top Secret America, 238-243.

xii D.B. Grady, “10 Things You Didn’t Know About the President’s Secret Army.” mental_floss (February 20, 2012), http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/117735.

xiii Sean D. Naylor, “Inside the Zarqawi Takedown: Persistent Surveillance Helps End 3-Year Manhunt,” DefenseNews.com (12 June 2006), http://integrator.hanscom.af.mil/2006/June/06152006/06152006-11.htm.

xiv Nick Carbone, “Inside Navy SEAL Team 6,” Time – Battleland (May 10, 2011), http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/05/10/inside-seal-team-six/.

xv Priest and Arkin, Top Secret America, 250-251.

xvi Ambinder and Grady, “Find, Fix, and Finish” in The Command.

xvii Urban, Task Force Black, 82-84, 91.

xviii Ambinder and Grady, “A Known Unknown” in The Command.

xix Naylor, “SpecOps unit nearly nabs Zarqawi.”

xx Garrett M. Graff, The Threat Matrix: The FBI at War in the Age of Global Terror (Little, Brown and Company, 2011), 442.

xxi Naylor, “SpecOps unit nearly nabs Zarqawi.”

xxii Ibid.

xxiii Urban, Task Force Black, 207, 213.

xxiv Naylor, “SpecOps unit nearly nabs Zarqawi.”

xxv Priest and Arkin, Top Secret America, 228.

xxvi Urban, Task Force Black, 15, 75, 116-118.

xxvii Col. Charlie A. Beckwith (Ret.), Delta Force: The Army’s Elite Counterterrorist Unit (New York: Avon, 1983).

xxviii Urban, Task Force Black, 267.

xxix Ibid, 116.

xxx Ibid, 254.

xxxi Ibid, 138.

xxxii Ibid, 244.

xxxiii Ibid, 158.

xxxiv Ibid, 99-100

xxxv Hugo Daniel, “Hundreds of terrorists killed in Baghdad secret SAS missions aimed at taking out al-Qaeda,” Daily Mail (August 31, 2008) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1050970/Hundreds-terrorists-killed-Baghdad-secret-SAS-missions-aimed-taking-al-Qaeda.html.

xxxvi Urban, Task Force Black, 133.

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steve scheurer
steve scheurer 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts on Ben Griffin the SAS "Whistleblower" who came out and complained about his unit  performing extraordinary rendition, the illegal transferring of prisoners.  I remember watching his anti-war speech and thinking this guy looks like he lost it, or he is just a little bitch.  if I remember he also complained about the US unit he worked with Delta being too brutal in some of their tactics.    

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @steve scheurer Not sure if I'd call anybody in the SAS a little bitch. With that said after looking at his Wikipedia page I find some things odd. I won't lie, I think counter-insurgencies are a rough, unsavory business, and on top of that JSOC wasn't trying to win hearts and minds. They were out to kill and capture all violent opposition that were working with Al-Qaeda or other foreign outsiders. Some guys I knew were more gung-ho than I would have liked them to be. Regardless, I find some of his statements odd especially the accusation of Delta being too brutal or the SAS having shot nobody. Matter fact, they've had KIA, and their guys had a reputation for being pretty gung-ho themselves. Perhaps more so than our guys.

 

Some of his other statements including the American's being split between two groups: Crusaders intent on killing Iraqis, and guys who were there for their GI Bill is pure BS. I'm assuming he was part of TF 145 and as such wasn't leaving MSS Baghdad/Camp Fernandez to go interact with the conventional troops. Very few JSOC personnel are there for their GI Bill. We didn't see ourselves as Crusaders either. Myself and both of my roommates still never killed anybody in Iraq and this is true for the majority of those that served.

 

I don't know Ben Griffin's intentions, but is favorable reflection of the SAS(Oh we never killed anybody and all the bad things we did were at the direction of the Americans) and is obvious exaggeration of American tactics just come across as some sort of anti-American agenda.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 10 Like

 @Canopylight  @steve scheurer +5 Gangster points, right on.

 

Here is a SAS story for you.  One SAS Squadron in Iraq had the TTP/SOP that whenever you come across a dead insurgent, you shoot him a couple more times just to make that he is dead.  Apparently they had an instance where a "dead" insurgent who had already been shot jumped back to life and started shooting at them.  Sounds reasonable enough.

 

Well, on one mission the SAS enters and clears an objective and kills an armed insurgent as he is coming down the stairs.  This bad guy flops to the ground dead and the Brits continue with their business of clearing and searching the house.  The SOP is carried out to the letter, every time a SAS operator goes up or down the stairs he pumps two more shots into the dead insurgent.  By the time they bag this fucker up and take him back to the FOB he has a couple hundred bullets in him.

 

Needless to say, JAG had some questions to ask them.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @Canopylight  @steve scheurer oops, deleted because of my ambiguous grammar...try again:  They had the same SOP back in the Queen's Gate takedown with the MP-5s and Brownings too.  Someone who has become a close friend and mentor for me is of the finest gentlemen I have ever met (I know there are scoundrels in any group).  It's something I've found to be true of the Ft Bragg guys I've met too.  I know that shooting a BG into the ground is nothing personal, simply smart.  Even with 5.56 at the right velocity there's a huge difference of terminal effect depending how skinny the target is or the amount of yaw when the bullet hits the skin...sorry - I just got nerd pedantic to people who know more than I do :/   It's like when that investigation happened because so many insurgents in Iraq had holes in their heads...the nature of MOUT duh.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@steve scheurer I'll have to better educate myself about Mr. Griffin but I thought that the "little bitch" comment was funny.

ChristopherGarvey
ChristopherGarvey 5pts

Hmm nothing about JSOC JIB?

pitt03
pitt03 5pts

The FBI was there in extremely small numbers.  To credit their organization with the on-site interrogations or exploitation successes is flat out wrong.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @pitt03 I never saw the FBI agents we worked with conduct and otherwise engage in interrogations so from my experience (I was never in Delta) I agree with you there.  However, the FBI did play a role in exploitation successes in the form of evidence collection so on this point I completely disagree.

pitt03
pitt03 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @pitt03 They were there in extremely small numbers and did participate in both aspects of the mission, so I don't want to take credit away from them in that regard.  However, the bulk of the work was done by others day in and day out for years.  There were a few good individual agents that I came across but more than a few showed up who thought they were there to ride in helicopters and hang out with the cool kids.

pitt03
pitt03 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Chris Martin  @JackMurphyRGR No problem, and my intent wasn't to disparage the effort from the bureau or their personnel.  The bureau and the supervisors who sent their guys to work in Iraq and Afg. did so with the right intentions.  My point was to illustrate that they were but an extremely small part of the force.  The organization on the ground was built and staffed by others; guys and gals that put in 18-20 hour days every day of the week over the course of years.  The exploitation, targeting and action TTPs weren't developed overnight; they were the result of the continuous hard work of individuals who will never receive recognition for their contributions.

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  @pitt03 Thanks for the insight guys -- I definitely appreciate your perspectives on the matter (which often proves to be much more informative than a stack of journalistic reports) and they add much to the overall picture. As for the FBI bit -- it was not my intention to give them too much (or too little) credit, for I cannot speak on that issue either way. I merely included it as an(other) example of how the McChrystal-led JSOC brought a number of entities together to accomplish a common goal. (And admittedly, I found the HRT/NYPD Blue reference amusing...)

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @pitt03 We didn't really have any problems with the FBI agents we worked with, they seemed like decent dudes and stayed in their lane.  But yeah, it was our boys that did the leg work day in and day out.

Hans K.
Hans K. 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

First off I really like the series Chris, but I do have a couple of questions.

 

1) If both Delta and DEVGRU were in Iraq, who was operating in Afghanistan (from JSOC I mean)?

and

2) Why do Delta and SAS prefer to wear their sidearms on their chest rather than strapped to their leg?

 

The questions are for everyone to answer.

BIGboss556
BIGboss556 5pts

 @Hans K. The SEALs got Afghanistan, Delta/CAG got Iraq, they were small numbers going back and forth of course though, because Delta/CAG took so many WIA in Iraq quite a few naval special warfare types went to help Delta/CAG.

 They wear their secondaries on their chest rigs because they spend alot of time in vehicles such as helicopters and birds. You will notice though in a lot of their newer photos they are going back to putting them on the belt along with ready magazines and IFAKs. Better weight dispersion and faster draw, after all if you are transitioning, you want it to scream out and go back in quickly, don't want to spend any time fighting a rifle fight with a pistol

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Hans K. Well fuck it we're not there anymore. DEVGRU had just a very small element at TF West. The majority of there guys were still in Astan. When TF145 transitioned to TF16 or possibly a bit before, DEVGRU left and TF West was run entirely by Rangers.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Hans K.

 The best carry is the one that let's you get to your secondary when you need  it and is out of your way when you don't. D on a DA raid probably rarely go prone and usually arrive via air insertion, less things to snag on, think fast rope on your strong side etc.

Hans K.
Hans K. 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Darn had a third question as well :)

 

I've never understood why the US (and NATO for that matter) focused its attention on Iraq. It seems that everyone forgot about 9\11 after a year or so. I mean I'm not one to talk about the moral harm done to the US, since I'm not american, but still.

 

I guess my question is "Why did NATO forces divert their main focus from A-stan to Iraq?".

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Hans K.

 Hans thats a good question which probably has a bunch of answers, some black and white others more grey. OEF-A was relatively stable as the SF guys seemed to have it mostly under control. We had the luxury,overall, of ignoring it to focus on the big buildup and kickoff to OIF which we knew was going to get dirty. Look at casualty charts from that time frame it kind of shows you the picture. As for geo-political back door dealing type stuff. Not saying it was srategically or tactically correct but thats how it appeared.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Hans K. My know-nothing position is natural resources/business and political currency.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

@Hans K. Wearing your sidearm on your chest rig allows for quicker transition to the secondary while dropping the primary. Also from what I can tell it allows for a higher range of motion and reduces chances of snagging during entry/exit.

OPR
OPR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @HugeFan  Also drop-holsters are heavier and way more uncomfortable when running. 

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @OPR  @HugeFan Well this one goes in my notes of useful knowledge! Thank you!  I also learned recently that if you don't have one with the two straps, then as you're running your sidearm flops around and hangs up more on things

Recon6
Recon6 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @Hans   Same reason "Tankers' wear them, or at least a reason, avoid snagging.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @HugeFan  @Hans I've heard Hereford protection teams, the driver will often carry in a shoulder rig for faster access and more comfort.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 9 Like

Gen Stan. That guy knew how to fight that fight. If you had the tools he invited you in. Shame he went out the way he did, we really could have used him. But everyone from an E1 Pvt to General 4 Star should know the Office of the President is off limits, but he took it with class and dignity. Love this guy more need to be like him in uniform.

7th Group

504th PIR

75th

JSOC

ISAF

 

That kids is a resume.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

@ArcticWarrior When I think of Gen. McChrystal, I think of a quote that R. Lee Emery gave in "On Deadly Ground": 'You could drop this guy off in the Arctic Circle wearing nothing but a thong and two weeks later he'll show up at your pool party with a woman on each arm.' that I'm sure can be said about every JSOC-type, in fact I would have likened that same quote to Adm. Eric T. Olson.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @HugeFan  @ArcticWarrior We wanted Olson off our balls with his top-down driven mandatory language training.  WTF...  We got a survey e-mail about language training from his office while I was in Group.  It was for O-4's and above.  I was a E-6 but decided to give him a little "ground truth" on the matter.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR

 Excellent point Jack, I see how that can chap one's ass. I can actually relate to that (only on a different level obviously). Maybe he was wearing that thong and so he literally had something up his ass? Thanks again for the insight that we civies crave here on your site!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @HugeFan  @JackMurphyRGR  @ArcticWarrior I have no idea what kind of Officer he was when he was with maneuver elements, however some of the demands he was making of us was disrupting legit training we already had going on.  I think his heart was probably in the right place, but he didn't have any situational awareness on the issue of language training, that's probably why he sent out that survey.  In the write in portions I wrote about how we are so wrapped around admin actions that it takes time out of training and that is why we had lost some of our focus on language.  Who has time to train when the metric used to measure your success in Special Forces is the percentage of Green Berets who filled out their online vehical safety form or took the latest online safety awareness test.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @ArcticWarrior That's why I come here. Thanks Jack, that provided some needed perspective. I'm sure that as an operator though Olson was solid. If I'm wrong about that though I will humbly request forgiveness...

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

A Huge thanks Chris!  I soak this stuff in like a sponge and the things I've read are from another era - like Beckwith's book!  @Old PH2 Holy cow, I just looked at the site and downloaded the books you mentioned plus a couple of articles which fall into my areas of interest.  Reading the Inspire books kind of upset my stomach for a couple of reasons (but I still appreciate seeing them).  One, I'm sure they're very effective with a devout-and-anti-American audience (interesting that he mentions talking to an American group as well).  Two, it makes me uneasy to have this stuff on my computer.  That's because growing up, I used to be accused of things I didn't do :)

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @katgirl231 Glad it makes you sick, these guys are pretty messed up.  Brandon speaks about trying to understand these guy's motivation, so why not go to the source.  I'm a lot like you Kat, looking everywhere for answers.  In the process learning all kinds of esoteric tidbits.

 

Yep, had to wash my eyeballs after that.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Old PH2 ...and I probably lost a few mm of teeth from grinding.  I was glad to see their pistol tutorial was so elementary - same with demo.  What concerned me is that they were smart enough to word it all so it would seem reasonable to English speaking Jihadist-wannabees and potential martyrs - that really gave me acid.

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @katgirl231 I think that's the whole point of INSPIRE, geared toward the western audience.  I mean really look at the "Baby killing" rhetoric used against the west.  I'm no Koranic Scholar but they continually use references to justify certain acts and trains of thought.  Ever looked at some of the Far right "Right to LIfe" anti Abortion propaganda?  All of these folks are using the same playbook for their target audience. 

 

I'm with you, after I read those I removed them from my hard drive, pure poison.

And I agree, I was relieved at the elementary nature of their weapons and Demo training.  Fortunately no info on Counter Surveillance, Whew!!!      

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts

@katgirl231 @Old PH2 Hey Kat, what was the title of Beckwith's book that you read? Also sorry haven't got back to yet about those ballistics sheets been busy on a sub tender.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @katgirl231  @Old Not a problem.  When I don't get a fast answer I assume the person is busy.  http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Force-Armys-Elite-Counterterrorist/dp/0380809397/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337247992&sr=8-1  It's a good read.  Some of his experiences in RVN, then on the exchange with the Hereford boys which opened his eyes about not only a new capability, but a change from the rigorous hierarchy that he was used to.

Ben K
Ben K 5pts

 @katgirl231  Haney describes his interview with Beckwith in Inside Delta Force.  From his description, that man was not someone you wanted to look at funny, lest you unleash the dragon.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts

 @Recon6  @HugeFan Chargin' Charlie!  Now there is one guy I'd have to be in front of if he was annoyed with me :D

Recon6
Recon6 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @katgirl231  @HugeFan Kat, I agree, Good read by a Great buy, loved Beckwith!

Ben K
Ben K 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @HugeFan  Delta Force: The Army's Elite Counterterrorist Unit.  Beckwith's memoirs of his time in the Army and, eventually, how it influenced the creation of Delta.  Sorry, I'll stop speaking for other people now.

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Ben K  @HugeFan haha - just saw this - not a problem :)

Ben K
Ben K 5pts

 @HugeFan That's what I assumed it was anyway.

McPosterdoor
McPosterdoor 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

"In some ways, the United States helped fuel Zarqawi’s notoriety, placing a $25 million bounty on his head." My read on this was that we built him into the leader by calling him the top man and putting this bounty on him so we had a actual body to target that the press knew about. When we terminated him we could say 'hey we're winning'. Killing nameless terrorists did nothing to improve home moral, it just more war spin/propaganda. You buy it?

Jboss
Jboss 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Best 99 cents I've ever spent. In the references, what is "Ibid" ???

Mitra
Mitra 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Jboss It means the same source that was noted right before. 

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Mitra  @Jboss Thanks Jboss. And yup, Mitra nailed it.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts

The one thing that has me scratching my head is the "unblinking eye" fusion of intel with regards to its capabilities. I figure if I am a Talib and find out that I am being monitored 24/7 by my nemisis who has far superior capabilities and technologies, thenI have to find a new career path. Chalk one up for religious fanaticism I guess. This is where Brandon pops in with the "roots causes" dilemma that he has drawn out over and over again. I would love it if we could somehow devise a method to improve the educational and health care systems of these countries so that they would understand us better. I think that if young children across the world saw Americans as Americans and not "Great Satan" than this bullshit would finally stop. A healthy and adequately educated populace tends be more peaceful, productive and stable.

Ben K
Ben K 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan We've tried that in the past.  It's called Voice of America.  It isn't perfect, but it is everywhere and, in absence of any facts since I haven't done any research, I think it's a great idea.  Unfortunately, there is not much you can do in countries where people are predisposed to hating America.  This is summed up accurately in internet culture by the expression, "haters gonna hate".  There's a granule of wisdom to be found in that.

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Ben K  @HugeFan  There is an argument that every thing that comes from the US is a statement.  Goods, services, entertainment, we really do have a huge footprint.  Even our left leaning media, is still "our media."  The message is America is great, our life is great, we're the coolest, get here or you SUCK!!!  That message, and the assumed arrogance of it is not lost on the rest of the world.  Whether we mean to or not, we are viewed as "the Spoiled Rich Kid" of the world and we are resented for it.     

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts

 @Ben K  @HugeFan  @Old PH2 I don't consider myself either liberal nor conservative - I think I'm too open minded to be labeled :)  Mauritius??  Wow.  One of my best friends and his wife from the UK are visiting there right now and are his photos beautiful!  He has some good stories.

Ben K
Ben K 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @katgirl231 It's a corporate thing.

 

 @HugeFan @Old PH2 I know, right?!  Well I consider myself a little left of center (I still really frackin' hate liberals) but that's neither here nor there.  I'm sure you've read my rants about my family here in Mauritius so I won't bore you with those again.  Just let it be known that my loyalty to the West is beyond question even if my extended family are all 50 Cent Party hacks :p.

 

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts

 @Chris Martin  @HugeFan gee - in the Defense Industry all middle level mgrs and above turn nouns/adjectives into verbs like a spinal reflex!  "Okay, we're costing out the project right now..."

katgirl231
katgirl231 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @HugeFan  @Old  @Ben It must be a human thing.  I ran into that all the time when I lived in Silicon Valley and people would talk about how horrible SoCal was and they often never stayed any time here!

Chris Martin
Chris Martin 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @HugeFan "Gist the place" actually made sense to me. I thought maybe there was a trendy new way to use gist as a verb... ;)

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Edit: "bad mouth" and "gist" should have been "visit". Bloody iPhone!

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@Old PH2 @Old @Ben Roger that PH! I have a cousin-in-law who has a degree in economics (let's call her Jozefa) and EVERY fucking time we visit I have to listen blabber about the latest American misdeed she has learned of. Fortunately, my supercalafragalistic father-in-law is there to redirect the conversation(he's a fan of ours) but last time I was there I ended it by telling her that I would stop in DC and talk to Barrack personally. I think she got the hint because she didn't talk to me the rest of the trip. Come to think of it, my vacation became exponentially more pleasent after that!

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @HugeFan  @Old  @Ben Throughout my life I have regularly been bowled over by the closed mindedness of seemingly well educated and worldly people.  You'll find them everywhere and across many career paths.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

@Old PH2 @Ben K When we go visit family in Europe I come across the resentment every now and again. It's not nearly what some make it out to be but it is a bit frustrating and disconcerting when I ask if the person had ever visited the US and I get a "No". I wanna tell that person what I tell Americans that ad mouth a place that they've never been: "Oh, STFU then and gist the place first!" I want to but I don't because clearly that I won't change their mind.

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @HugeFan  Down load and read the last two copies of INSPIRE, I found them here:

http://cryptome.org/

This is a great site for all information intel/ Sigint/image int and anything Spook related.

 

What I have read kind of reminds me of the type of writing encountered around the First world war appealing to the patriotism of the reader.  Also similar to Anarchist/ Leftist newsletters from the Spanish Civil War.  There seems to be a certain romanticism of the subject.  My wife tells stories of how the Iranians fought the Iraqis, families willingly telling 12yrs old sons to go to the front.  The mind set is just foreign to us.

HugeFan
HugeFan 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Old PH2 Thank you PH! I'll get to reading!

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