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Home » SOF History » How to Invent a War

How to Invent a War

by Jack Murphy · September 28, 2012 · Posted In: SOF History, SOF News, Special Operations
lyndon_johnson_situation_room_sofrep
On August 5th, 1964 three fast moving patrol boats of the North Vietnamese Navy’s 135th Torpedo Squadron sped across the black waters of the Gulf of Tonkin towards the United States Navy’s USS Maddox which was conducting an intelligence gathering operation off the coast of communist controlled shores in South East Asia. Taking evasive maneuvers, the USS Maddox expended thousands of rounds of ammunition as a counter-attack, firing on enemy radar signatures in the night. This was the spark the ignited a full blown conflagration in Vietnam, leading to the US military deploying half a million troops into the country, 58,000 coming home in body bags and many more never coming home at all, still listed as Missing In Action.

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The problem with the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the inciting action that led to the Vietnam war, is that it simply never happened. A top secret study penned under the auspices of the National Security Agency was recently declassified stating, “It is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night” (Hanyok 177). With the passage of time, new information had gradually come to light revealing that the USS Maddox was firing at phantom radar signatures, or as Navy pilot James Stockdale who was circling over head that night said, “our destroyers were just shooting at phantom targets…there were no PT boats there…there was nothing there but black water and American fire power” (Stockdale 17).

In Goulish’s, “39 microlectures in Proximity of Performance: Criticism” the author endeavors to provide several helpful tools for thinking critically, one of them being the metaphor of a glass window being a slow moving liquid rather than a solid. Goulish writes how it was found that the windows in old cathedrals allowed more light to pass through at the top than the bottom. Upon further study, it was found that the glass was slowing running towards the bottom, carried by gravity. “As creative and critical thinkers, we may find it rewarding to attempt works of criticism, which, over time…follow[ing] the example of glass.” (44) Goulish tells the reader that the glass exercise helps us not only understand how time changes perceptions but also how to understand understanding itself. This is a curious claim, but worth looking at through a historical context for relevancy if nothing else.

When a window is first made, less light shines through the thick glass, much as the truth surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin incident was obscured from public, and even government, scrutiny. It was only with the passage of time that gravity thinned the glass and allowed light to be shown on how events actually unfolded.

President Johnson addressed the nation on August 4th 1964, “…today by a number of hostile vessels attacking two U.S. destroyers with torpedoes. The destroyers, and supporting aircraft, acted at once on the orders I gave after the initial act of aggression. We believe at least two of the attacking boats were sunk” (President Johnson, August 4th 1964). A year later, Johnson is said to have remarked to his press secretary, Bill Moyers, “For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there.” It seems that even the leader of the free world is susceptible to the fog of war. The situation was so convoluted that while Secretary of Defense McNamara almost certainly knew that the Gulf of Tonkin was a hoax, he and his staff put off briefing President Johnson until he had already committed himself to the war.

Newspapers across the country parroted government press releases. “Johnson Puts Air Arm in Action-Destroyers Repulse Another PT Attack” (Augusta Chronicle, August 5th 1964), “Torpedoes of Tonkin” (Springfield Union, August 4th 1964), “Action in Tonkin Gulf” (Time Magazine, August 15th 1964). When the Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred, or didn’t as it turned out, there was a rush to judgment. Facts were not checked or verified, assumptions were made. Swept up the the clamor of patriotism, Congress was quick to authorize military action in Vietnam.

While we have the benefit of hindsight, emotions ran high in 1964, the looming threat of the communist menace was at the forefront of the minds of both defense planners and the American public. Where there should have been a thorough, deliberate investigation there was instead a hasty military intervention. Goulish comments, “…we sometimes feel the desire to reject intellectuality altogether in favor of passionate expression” (43) such were President Johnson’s actions in his rush to expand US involvement in South East Asia as he ordered bombers to attack North Vietnamese targets in retaliation for an attack that never happened.

While Goulish’s metaphor for the opaqueness of human perception during initial analysis relates to art and art criticism, it relates equally as well to the political and military arena. We use the melting glass comparison as an analytical mechanism to help us understand how to initiate the process of understanding. “Such acceptance requires a softening of the dividing lines between traditional differences” (44). Reciting press releases simply will not suffice, not in a world cast in the shadows of real politek, simple people, misunderstanding, and outright subterfuge. As Goulish reminds us, “the softening of the dividing lines does not however imply the disintegration of difference” (44), and thus the complex mind but think not just vertically but laterally while wading through the gray areas of international politics.

At the time of this non-event, the truth was anything but self evident. Mission creep and long term political objectives took precedence, hijacking the actions of the USS Maddox and using them to initiate the Vietnam War. While the press refused to conduct their due diligence, this illustrates that our first impression may not be our most accurate or honest one. As Goulish warns us, we should never sacrifice our ability to reason for an emotionally satisfying expression be it political, military, or in his example, artistic. While the glass may be thick in the immediate aftermath of the event, it will thin with time, revealing a truth that is entirely different from initial reports.

On August 7th, two days after the supposed attack, a resolution passed through Congress with only two dissenting votes, providing the Johnson administration with a de facto declaration of war.

Following the social and political turmoil of the 1960′s and 70′s, it seems that gravity began to pull away at the facade that was the Gulf of Tonkin myth just as it does with the windows in the cathedral, allowing the light of day to expose the truth. The passage of time allows us to reflect on the same event but through a different, and more accurate, perspective.

Compare more recent headlines regarding the same incident, “Report reveals Vietnam War hoaxes, faked attacks” (AFP, January 8th, 2008), “Vietnam War Intelligence ‘Deliberately Skewed,’ Secret Study Says” (New York Times, December 2nd, 2005), “30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War” (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, July 27th, 1994). The gap in analysis between the 1964 headlines and the 30 to 40 year retrospectives is vast as it is disturbing but what caused this change in perspective?

In 1964 much more was at stake than just the Vietnam War, support for the war was also equated to support for other antiquated government injustices such as racial segregation, the suppression of women, and a host of other social and culture issues. So convoluted was American culture that it became impossible to separate one issue from the other and look at the war from an objective, non-prejudicial perspective. As society has changed, so has our ability to see the Vietnam War clearly. Nothing less than time itself has allowed us to take a second look at the Gulf of Tonkin and expose the lies that surround the alleged attack on the USS Maddox.

The shift in cultural values may have impacted our ability to see the war through a different lens, but it took the actual passage of years for America to come to grips with the incident and see through the glass clearly. Those who made the political decisions at that time have largely passed on, the men who fought in the war are older and learning how to deal with their war time experiences, those who vigorously opposed the war have long since quieted themselves and allowed space for more reasonable debate, and previously classified documents have been released under the Freedom Of Information Act.

Time was the key factor that has led to a true representation of the Gulf of Tonkin incident. It is now widely acknowledged that the entire episode was a pseudo-event that only took place the mind of a few over zealous sailors who thought they saw the radar blip of approaching communist torpedo boats. There was no attack, the crew of the USS Maddox fired their weapons at an empty sea, and Johnson initiated the Vietnam War under false pretenses. Like Goulish’s glass window, what initially appeared as a solid as dripped away with time, to reveal itself as also being a liquid.

Such intense retrospectives can be dangerous as well. “As creative and critical thinkers we may find it rewarding to attempt works of criticism, which, over time, reveal themselves as works of art…” (44). War as creative expression on an international scale, body count included, is indeed the most dangerous type of reflection. And yet, the criticism of Hanyak and Stockdale have shown themselves as works of art, revealing nuances and truth as intensely as any musician or painter. If we look into the past and note how skewed our perceptions were, how wrong we were both individually and as a nation, it calls into question our current paradigm. If the cultural juggernaut that was the Vietnam turned out to be initiated on a lie than what are we to believe about the wars we fight today? Do we still cast aside intellectuality for emotional satisfaction?

It becomes impossible to ignore today’s headlines when Goulish’s paradigm is brought it its conclusion as applied to the Vietnam war. Even as journalists tear down the fraud that was the Gulf of Tonkin in major newspapers across the country, they publish new headlines, justifying new wars. “Bush: Get Ready for a Long Struggle” (San Jose Mercury News, September 16th, 2001), “It’s War” (New York Daily News, September 12th, 2001), “’Curveball’: I lied about WMD to hasten Iraq war” (MSNBC, February 15th, 2011). Goulish writes that glass cannot exist without time, it is both liquid and solid depending on the year in which observer views it.

In time, what will the retrospectives say about our war in the year 2050? When George Bush and Barack Obama have passed on, when the primary source documents get leaked or declassified, when the anti-war protestors move on to something more topical for their time, when the veterans ease into old age, how will we then see the War on Terror when the facade has melted way?

 

Works Cited:

Hanyok, Robert J. Skunks, Bogies, Silent Hounds, and Flying Fish: The Gulf of Tonkin Mystery. P. 177.

Goulish, Matthew. “Criticism.” 39 Microlectures in Proximity of Performance. Routledge, 2000.P. 43-44.

Johnson, Lyndon B. Radio address regarding the Report on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. Washington D.C. August 4, 1964

Stockdale, James B. In Love and War. New York: Bantam Books, 1985, p. 17.

Augusta Chronicle, August 5th 1964

Springfield Union, August 4th 1964

Time Magazine, August 15th 1964

AFP, January 8th, 2008

New York Times, December 2nd, 2005

Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, July 27th, 1994

San Jose Mercury News, September 16th, 2001

New York Daily News, September 12th, 2001

MSNBC.com. “’Curveball’: I lied about WMD to hasten Iraq war”. February 15th, 2011. Website. Accessed on September 25th 2011.

 

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PatrioticCitizen
PatrioticCitizen 5pts

This whole article describes what they call a false flag operation ...been used all the way back to the Roman days.  Cesar bragged of how if he could beat the drums of Patriotism loud enough he could get the people to bend to any of his will ...and for a time it worked even for him ..but only for a time. 

PatrioticCitizen
PatrioticCitizen 5pts

Excellent article ...It takes great courage to sometimes look at the situations and decide on one action or another warfare or peace. But a man or woman must have the character , the intelligence and fortitude to stick to what they believe is right no matter what the cost in choosing either. As has been stated many times before in many instances " war is just politics in disguise. " The nature of war and being a warrior are two different things , one is a lifestyle of self reliance , being prepared and duty , the other is a action that should only be arrived at with the heaviest of hearts. 

John_Thorn
John_Thorn 5pts

@BrandonTWebb. Why don't u answer people?

BrandonTWebb
BrandonTWebb 5pts

@John_Thorn I do. Caveat that with I have a dog, gf, kids and lots going on outside of twitter.

903Lew
903Lew 5pts

@BrandonTWebb Such an excellent piece of work. Smashing.

BrandonTWebb
BrandonTWebb 5pts

@903Lew thanks!

JamesByrd42
JamesByrd42 5pts

@BrandonTWebb does http://t.co/7xue3bn1 have an rss feed?

BrandonTWebb
BrandonTWebb 5pts

@JamesByrd42 yes!

JamesByrd42
JamesByrd42 5pts

@BrandonTWebb I couldn't find it earlier

Sonnys Mom
Sonnys Mom 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

But getting back to the present... the jihadis really do want us all dead.  Lawrence Wright's book The Looming Tower is a good reference on the origins of AQ, and a potent reminder that terror is the jihadis' most potent weapon against the West.  And why? Because they have not yet defeated or enslaved us; simple as that.

PatrioticCitizen
PatrioticCitizen 5pts

 @Sonnys Mom No we are doing a excellent job of enslaving ourselves with our giving into our irrational desire to be 100 percent safe all the time ...Just think if we taught our kids this way they would never set foot outside the door , much less play in the yard. We are stronger and tougher people than this to be afraid of every bogeyman out there.We deal with the problem but not by playing into the very goal of terrorism in the first place , and that is to instill fear. 

marbito11
marbito11 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I had no idea jesse ventura hacked into SOFREP's website.

momengineer
momengineer 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @marbito11 I would suggest you read the comments.  Ventura has been discussed (down lower in the comment string)

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @momengineer  @marbito11

 Wasn't that the guy that never got punched?;)

Icegator
Icegator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @momengineer  @marbito11  @engelbrad 

LOL! FYI,Rules for Radicals has been retitled as "Guidelines for the modern mainstream media"!

momengineer
momengineer 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @marbito11  @engelbrad you need to check your definition of conspiracy theory.  Like I stated below, using non-credible assertions  to mask credible assertions is an old, old tactic (similar to Alinsky's rule 5)...if you want to call this a conspiracy theory- show your reasoning- do a counterpoint to all that Jack has pointed out.  Don't be intellectually lazy.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @marbito11  @engelbrad  @momengineer What's the conspiracy theory?

marbito11
marbito11 5pts

 @engelbrad  @momengineer  @marbito11

 yes, his the guy that got punched. His known for conspiracy theories like the one on this article.

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @marbito11

 I'm not sure if its a good thing or a bad thing that I've already used up my snark quota for the week.   (I playing nice, T9.)

chipe
chipe 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Great article, it's my favorite on this site so far. Keep up the good work.

JWARD1112
JWARD1112 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

This is a good lesson in critical thinking and also goes along with the article about your information tool kit. Think about what you see and hear, not everything is what it seems. I first learned about this in a training X that involved psychological warfare. I did some research and found that this is one of the primary points used by 9/11 conspiracy theorist. I doubt I'll ever jump on that band waggon, but it sure brings to question the true information given to the public.-

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 12 Like

 @JWARD1112 That is the danger of making one inference too many.  Some people will seize on the Gulf of Tonkin as proof that every other "event" of this type is somehow contrived.  Some are...many are not.  Likewise, I refuse to succumb to the faulty logic of those who think we should not talk about these topics at all out of a fear of being lumped in with "conspiracy theorists".

RVN SF VET
RVN SF VET 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR  I'm coming to the party late, but I do have a unique perspective.On August 2nd or 3rd (International Dateline and aging memory) I was walking down the hallway of the "E" Ring in the Pentagon on my way to the Vietnam Desk of the Office of International Security Affairs (ISA) in OSD. Suddenly Navy Radiomen and Yeoman came running down the hall in whites with yellow paper tapes in their hands. I was in suit and tie and therefore could have been an important person. Therefore, when I ask a Yeoman what was up, he held the tape for me to read. //FLASH/CRITIC// I have opened fire with all main batteries. North Vietnamese PT boats attacking. Or words close to that. Now that I know the Destroyer Division's Captain was aboard Maddox, I better understand the declarative nature of all the following communications. The Ydoman told me that they were coming through "in the clear" - unencrypted. Then he ran ahead to thw Vietnam Desk that I was going to visit. Well, we didn't get our lunch together that day.

 

I have often had to recount that story because so many people in later days refused to believe that there was ever ANY attack on the Maddox that day or the next. From the beginning, many people had begin to doubt everything. THere was a good reason to doubt our government;s word and that was because all my friends were lying to the press, even when it was totally unnecessary. Because I was soon deploying and of very low rank, I kept my mouth shut long into my tour in RVN.

 

Anyway, it was the real thing and yes it was provoked by our raids using NATO Nasty Class wooden PT boats built in Norway. You know, when you attack the enemy, all kinds of SIGINT is generated.`However, we did have doubts very shortly thereafter that there was no attack the next day and there were all kinds of guys in the Pentagon who could explain Tonkin Ghosts. Most of these experts put their faith in what the Navy jets saw or in this case did not see

 

Finally, I would like to remind everybody that the military got the time of the retaliatory raid confused. It seems the Navy carrier battle group used "Tonkin Gulf Time" but the folks in either CINCPAC of more likely in the Pentagon used the time used by the military in South Vietnam. As a result, when President Johnson announced the retaliatory raid, he did so an hour before the planes left the decks of the carriers. The Russians flashed the word to the NVA and their trawlers provided confirming details and updates. This led to the shooting down of several planes and our first pilot POW (Lieutenant J.G. Alvarez.) Talk about OPSEC! BTW, in the old days, military time was not that easy to get right. Now, with computers, it should be a lot easier - I hope.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

 @RVN SF VET Thanks for the additional information.  I really should have expanded this paper into an article when I published it to be more thorough.

JWARD1112
JWARD1112 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @JackMurphyRGR I agree. The information needs to be discussed, evaluated and learned from. It is up to the reader to read deeper into the situation and draw conclusions based on all the facts.  The facts are available for the public, most are too lazy to do the leg work and find the information. I enjoy your articles, keep up the hard work.

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

Jack Murphy for Sec of State

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ArcticWarrior I like it but I still want Jack in the cat-bird seat. Jack Murphy for President in 2012. Brandon could be SECSTATE with his camera/media exposure/experience. Then Jack could get Coriolanus in for CIA head... look I got this all figured out. Wisely though, no one is going to listen to me! LOL

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @HugeFan

 Ok hear me out. Pres is beholden to Congress too often. Defense beholden to LM, Boeing and Congressman who have DoD contracts in state.

Sec of State delivers the MESSAGE. Sometimes in person. Even though Jack has all the cool kid ASI's and SQIs he has the no bull shit RGR attitude to deliver the MESSAGE, loud and clear. Sec of State's like Marshall and even Forrestal had a lot of thunder.

So who better to tell Iran or anyone else, diplomatically of course, to have a cup of shut the fuck up or else?

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR  @Recon6

 your un-armed?  how the hell do you type so damn fast without any arm's?  just kidding m'lady,,,i think you are a class-act.  i just like busting your non-existant ball's like you do us,pain in the ass old fart's!!  you guy's are a breath of fresh air for people like me.  geesh,,i think i shed a tear,,,,,,lol  you're kool in my book darlin

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @shagstar  @Recon6  Shag, I'm not THAT bad that you have to wear a cross.  I stopped being that bad when I finished going through menopause - now those were scary times for menfolk to be around me :)   Now I'm just sunshine, fuzzy bunnies, rainbows and hopefully soon, armed.

shagstar
shagstar 5pts

 @StormR  @Recon6  @ArcticWarrior

 i have to remind myself to wear my cross outside my shirt when i speak with you storm!!  lol

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior See, 6...I'm soooo sassy that I even made your computer give you some sass!

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior   Damn Stormy, my computer just "blinked" on your last comment and won't bring it back up!!

But, I Agree, lol     6

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior   Wellllll, you boys know I've got the "Sassy" attitude down pat :) :)

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @StormR  @ArcticWarrior

 "sassy".is my wife's other name!

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior   LOL, no Stormy, the 'intent' was for the Ones in the forefront of policy shaping!! 

However, "sassy" is Always good, whether in accoutrements or attitude, lol.....6

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior Ya all made me feel so Liberal homely, that I have an appointment today to get a sassy new haircut AND I'm going shopping for a sassy new outfit...so there.

ThePatriots
ThePatriots 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @shagstar  @engelbrad  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan  @JackMurphyRGR  @Old PH2 Donation? hahahahaha I work for the Army and I'm WAY below on the pay scale, but I'll offer something that could produce better returns than the change in my ashtray - my smoking hawt wife as a spokesperson and promoter to the cause.

 

If we partner her with Laura Walker...Dear God Sweet Baby Jesus. We'll quadruple the voter turn out of males between the ages of 18 and near death. Hell, some may even try and vote more than once.

 

 

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ThePatriots  @engelbrad  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan  @JackMurphyRGR  @Old PH2

 @ThePatriots we're here too serve but,,in order to keep this animal alive,,,we need campaign donations!  or, a good super-pac would be nice!   lol

ThePatriots
ThePatriots 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @engelbrad  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan Are you shittin' me? I get back from a lil overnight ruck and you mother fuckers have already nominated @JackMurphyRGR  for State, Webb for Prez, merged the ATF back into the FBI and have @ArcticWarrior pretty much setting up the targets and knocking out the 10 ring with great ideas while @Old PH2 floats around like the good idea fairy fixing every fuck up y'all create or overlooked. And between @engelbrad , @HugeFan  and @shagstar you've covered just about all the loose ends and have this country off to a great start. I like it. Nice work, boys.

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @Recon6  @ArcticWarrior

 lol,,i know ya'all know how to party!  fer christs sake,,i watch POTUS and wifey do it everyday in the whitehouse!!  just saying

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior

 

Ah ha!  I have you all running skeered from this Liberal hottie of a wimmen!  True, I not much of a hottie anymore - more luke-warmish nowadays, but in my day I would have ya all drooling and stuttering.   (Okay, I AM exaggerating a bit.)  Besides, us Liberals know how to party :) :)

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @StormR  @Recon6  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior Hey STormy, I was referencing Lib women on t.v. etc  Not Our Women of SOFREP, y'all are the Best!!    6

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @StormR  @ArcticWarrior

 i'm just here to prove my worth as you're bag/PR man!!  lol

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts

 @shagstar  @StormR  @ArcticWarrior   OMG!  LMAO!!!  That was Priceless!!  Proves our point Beyond Any Doubt, LOL   WOW    6

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @StormR  @Recon6  @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq09hAl5EkI

  i rest my case!!

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@Recon6 @shagstar @ArcticWarrior @HugeFan 

 

"Conservative women are way better looking than Libs, with a few exceptions,  including the so called Lib news agencies"

 

Hey now!   I'm a Lib and I was considered mightyyy fine looking in my day ;)  (tosses her hair back and struts away in a huff)

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 at 6,,,then sic old ph2 on em!  remember,he is your spokesman.

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan   See, you get the point also!!  Now if we could Only get Fan and Stormy on board it would be a better World, lol    6

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Recon6  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 you can't discount Naplatano either 6,,,she is head of the herd!

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan  LOL, wish you could see the comment I just posted on Fan's post!!!   I would Pay Pelosi to stay away from All of us!  Conservative women are way better looking than Libs, with a few exceptions, including the so called Lib news agencies....Next to Jane, Pelosi is my next Most disliked female, lol  gosh yuck....6

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 i would prefer to collect from Palin than i would Nancy Palosi!!  YIKES!

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan Lol, especially the 'collecting' part in exchange for 'favors' from Palin et al     6

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Recon6  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 well shit 6!!  someone has to do the dirty work!

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan    Shag, That was the best comment of All, LOL, you know where the Money lies!  Can I be your "bag man" and carry your cash around?  Or better yet, can I 'collect' it for you?   6

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan  Do NOT forget the SOFREP Elves...guvberment IT needs some seriously fixin'

 

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @StormR  @ArcticWarrior  @engelbrad  @HugeFan

 better boobs is strictly for intern level!

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @shagstar  @engelbrad  @HugeFan

 

AW said: " Maybe then DoD would get us better boots, and lighter batterie"

 

I swear - hand to heart - I first read this as 'better boobs...' and was mightly worried there about ya for a moment.   However, if it is true, I want a Cabinet job at least!

 

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @shagstar  @HugeFan  @ArcticWarrior

 Joe is the man and that would be the perfict match!

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 That's where I come in... I'll be the reporter and get him started in the right direction..."So... Old PH2... Tell us about the one where you were so drunk your girlfriend had to hold your dick to take a piss....  LOL...

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @HugeFan  @ArcticWarrior

 team him up with sheriff Joe Arpio and watch the shit fly!

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @engelbrad  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 shit,,,the press corp wouldn't even show-up for fear of getting his boot in their asses!!  lol

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior PH could be the guy that gets to do whatever the fuck he wants... One week, Sec of the Navy... Next week heads the DEA... think of PH(and the SOFREP DEV Team, for that matter) as Al Borlan form Home Improvement going around and fixing whatever we break

Recon6
Recon6 moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan   Wait AW, You are Not Married !!!

It just dawned on me!!    6

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @shagstar  @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 Holy shit Shag that would be entertaining! Those press conf.s would have higher ratings that the Super Bowl!!!

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 PH2 could be you're spokesman with his colorful language??

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @shagstar  @HugeFan

 Lol...that where all the money is. Hopefully BW shuts K St down forever

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 can i be a lobbiest for ya?

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @shagstar  @engelbrad  @HugeFan

 Maybe then DoD would get us better boots, and lighter batteries

 

And throw in better MRE's

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @ArcticWarrior Hey fucker, I don't care if I have to be a janitor but I want in on the Ministry of Vice and Virtue gig. In fact, I'd like to actually get in on the upper terraces of the ATF(E). I would do shit like merging them back into the FBI and severely restricting their movements but keep all of the really cool shit that they do...

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @HugeFan  BW has the temperment for Pres, the right mix of diplomacy, media handling and Sr NCO. Not afraid to turn loose the Reapers, but sure to shit can the Patriot Act. Ok thats good, 2 jobs filled.

Me, I get to Minister of Vice and Virtue. Everyone else you mentioned, its a go. See problem solved for 4-8 years.

 

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts

 @ArcticWarrior   "Join the Navy... See the World" They do make SECSTATEs, maybe because of the diaspora associated with being in the navy? So what, if 2/3 of it is water? 

HugeFan
HugeFan moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @ArcticWarrior Recv'd... then I want Janson in as SECDEF and I'll revert back to "Webb for 2012". VP? Well, I like Ritland(check out his interview with Fox about Glen) he has no time it seems for politics and since VP is a seat-warming position he could travel with Jack serving those hot cups of STFU. We could round it out with Jeff as NSA and the various SOFREP staff as cabinet members and ambassadors. Could you imagine LauraWalkerKC as an ambassador to Mexi-flow? Shit would be "problem solved, problem staying solved" in a week.

 

Plus we would have eyes on the ground, you know that they're gonna end up in a lot warm climates with pretty beaches but as long they get ONE thing done per year that'll put them light years ahead of every administration since Ike. What say you?

shagstar
shagstar 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @engelbrad  @HugeFan

 i wish everone in office was prior military!

ArcticWarrior
ArcticWarrior 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @engelbrad  @HugeFan

 True many Secs of State were from the Navy.....

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ArcticWarrior  @HugeFan

 Either way we are in MUCH better shape!!!!

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