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Home » Special Operations » The Difference Between Rangers and Special Forces

The Difference Between Rangers and Special Forces

by Jack Murphy · March 22, 2013 · Posted In: Special Operations
mission1
“Big dumb Ranger stomping through the woods,” a retired Sergeant Major from 5th Special Forces Group said with a smirk to me after an After Action Review in Robin Sage. Robin Sage is the culmination exercise at the end of the Special Forces Qualification Course, basically your final exam prior to donning the Green Beret.

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I rolled my eyes at Kevin as I shook my head. I was pissed, but not because Kevin was breaking my balls, rather I was irritated with myself because I knew that he was right. We were instructed to conduct an ambush in the fictional nation of Pineland (actually located in North Carolina) and I was walking point. Getting angry with some of the junior guys on the team because of a land navigation error, I told them to shut up and follow me. I charged off through the woods and made enough noise that the role players guarding the road we were supposed to ambush heard us.

Going from this in Ranger Battalion... (w/ Isaiah Burkhart)

Going from this in Ranger Battalion… (w/ Isaiah Burkhart)

What happened after that was everything not described in the Ranger Handbook. Blank fire was popping off every where and I ordered Keven, playing an Arab foreign fighter attached to our team, to fire his AT4 Anti-Tank rocket. In real life the rocket would not have even armed because we were so close to the “enemy” but I figured it would scare the hell out of them if nothing else.

When we maneuvered up to the road there were “bodies” laying everywhere. We were supposed to ambush an enemy supply truck at a specific time but with our patrol compromised and the shootout that ensued, it didn’t look like we would be completing that objective anytime soon. Big facepalm moment for yours truly.

It was the youngest guy on our Robin Sage team that suggested to me that we just hide the “bodies” in the bushes and set up our own checkpoint, masquerading as the enemy when the supply truck came through. He was an 18-Xray, one of the kids who was able to come in right off the street and into the Special Forces pipeline. While I was still thinking Ranger School, this guy grasped the unconventional warfare mission faster.

Damn, that was a good idea! It worked perfectly. We stashed the “dead” role players in the bushes, set up a checkpoint, and captured the supply truck.

To this in Special Forces...

To this in Special Forces…

Kevin’s words stuck with me. Being a Special Forces soldier requires a very different mentality than being a Ranger but I still had a hard time shaking off old habits. In Ranger Battalion everything is usually dress right dress, and done to THE STANDARD. When you attempt to graft this work ethic onto the unconventional warfare mission it simply does not work. Yelling at indigenous troops and demanding that they behave like Americans will get you no where. Expecting them to perform like American Light Infantry is also ridicules.

Stomping off into the woods while on patrol isn’t a good idea regardless of what unit you are in, but being a hot head is even less effective while running Special Forces missions.

The point of this article isn’t to ask which unit is better or make some childish comparison. The Ranger Regiment and Special Forces are different and what I hope to point out is that they have to be different. This difference stems from the fact that they have different missions that require different approaches.

More to follow on that later…

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zachmorris01
zachmorris01 5pts

Great article, @JackMurphyRGR.  It's nice to hear from someone who's served in both units.  Can't wait for your follow-up!

teabagshredder
teabagshredder 5pts

Outstanding read.. Its about time someone got it right, between the difference makers and Hollywood!

majrod
majrod 5pts

Livefyre is acting squirrely. My posts get a little posting icon going in the bottom right corner and the post never posts.  I'm wondering if the new look cuts down on the length of a post and paragraph breaks.  I hope not. 

-BLACK-
-BLACK- 5pts

Thank you Jack! 

DonovanE
DonovanE 5pts

Any chance there will be an article on the difference between Army Special Forces and MarSOC?

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@DonovanE I never served in MARSOC but it would be an interesting article.  I'm looking forward to reading Level Zero Heroes just because I don't know a lot about those guys.

DonovanE
DonovanE 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR I think it would be a good article, because the units are so similar and yet at the same time completly different.

endrsgm
endrsgm 5pts

@DonovanE 
i was a fast marine in the 90s, before marsoc. the old company commander from fast became the co of marsoc when it formed. 
as a former marine i dont mind admitting the marine corps is a bit schizophrenic. they HATE "special" forces and during ww2 were forced to have the marine raiders. they got rid of them and said never again. fast got started by reagan after beirut. the marines hated fast. when afghanistan kicked off the corps was told spec ops only and panicked at the thought of missing a war. marsoc was born. alot of fast marines were shunted over.
the BIGGEST problem is the corps doesnt know what it wants. it wants a traditional marine unit AND special operations capable. both have strengths and the corps seems to pick the worst out of both and combine in one.
example: fast had really well trained young marines who had all the special schools. above them - nco's on their b-billets. an a-billet is your REAL job. a b-billet is a temporary job you have to take to get promoted beyone about e-5 or so. its a year or two at most; drill instructor, recruiters, etc arent meant to be that forever. so .. the guys in charge of these well trained young marines were hopeless. either fixed mentality infantry (this is how we do it in the infantry and all this special training isnt worth anything) or administrative paperpushers (whats a compass). any junior marine promoted was promoted out of the unit due to organizational tables. the middle and lower upper leadership sucked.
marsoc got rid of the b-billet idea but hasnt embraced the completely unconventional. to the marine corps its more important that marsoc be closer to a traditional marine unit than it is that marsoc do a really good job. its not that they want marsoc to fail, they dont. but ... they want marsoc to succeed following marine doctrine and if they cant or wont follow marine doctrine than no one minds seeing them fail. thats the feel i get from talking to people who are in, have been in, etc. 

NMOne
NMOne 5pts

What kind of helmet is sitting at your feet in the Ranger pic and why does it look like a section was cut out of the top?


Just curious

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@NMOne Its a MICH helmet.  The picture was cut for size and also because the people at Walmart screwed up when they developed the film...

NMOne
NMOne 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @NMOne Actually I meant the top of the helmet. It might just be perspective, but it looks like a groove was cut into the top.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@NMOne @JackMurphyRGR I think you are just seeing the NODs mount and velcro on the top.

rozhbash
rozhbash 5pts

There is definitely a role for both approaches, though it was frustrating watching ODAs seem to forget their strengths in FID/UW and focus too much on DA.  The good thing is that generally the difference between both organizations (and their METL) tends to draw the right caliber of people to each.  And these distinct differences in mindset, maturity and missions combine to give the Army guys at the tip of the spear substantially more to draw from than just a bunch of all-star DA or recon squids ;)

robgb
robgb 5pts

@rozhbash Our strengths are all of those 3 and SR, CT and many others, we dont just focus on FID/UW like everyone believes.

rozhbash
rozhbash 5pts

@robgb  But my point is that we do FID/UW unlike other SOF and because it's a strength (I would argue it was the genesis of SF's formation), our guys have unique skillsets required to do it well.  Yes, an ODA can do all of those others but a Ranger company nor a SEAL platoon can do FID/UW at the same level.  And that's a good thing because each force is better suited to different tasks to avoid things like SEALs attempting to assault airfields or Rangers boarding ships. 

Andrew Barczak
Andrew Barczak 5pts

Great article. I love the story about the checkpoint. It definitely illustrates the point. Thanks for the insight. 

wannabearmyteen
wannabearmyteen 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR  Have you used any other SPEC4CE patterns besides the Desert dune and Urban variant?

wannabearmyteen
wannabearmyteen 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Looks like Rangers tend to have a hard time in ETADIK training. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4HIrdMMhpM

-BLACK-
-BLACK- 5pts

Do they do that retard clap on purpose, becuase that shit is funny. 

ConsummateCanuck
ConsummateCanuck 5pts

Face palm LOL

Always writing interesting stuff Jack!

Love gaining an understanding in the "warrior culture" and everything that goes along with. You guys all (at least on this site) are so well-informed and im glad as a Canadian I get to understand your viewpoints

Sidenote here....some people around these parts call a face palm "slap your dome!" (When someone else deserves it haha)

Cheers!

engelbrad
engelbrad 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Cool article Jack! I'm an ignorant civie but I did notice you got to lose the knee pads once you were SF... That seems like a perk!!! LOL....

Looking forward to more. Have a great weekend!

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@engelbrad I was dead set on wearing those kneepads because I had won them as a prize at the All Army shooting competition.  The reality though, is that no self respecting soldier wears knee pads.  They are not cool or functional.

OPR
OPR 5pts

 @JackMurphyRGR Are the Crye pants any better?

majrod
majrod 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR It's pretty common issue to ODAs now Jack.

@OPR 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@OPR @JackMurphyRGR Never wore them.  I wasn't that high speed.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Humility is under rated.  Great article Jack and good to see one can recognize one's own errors. (I ran into an ambush once in training chasing rebels that would repeatedly fire and break contact.  Good lesson for a 2LT.)

I'd be interested to hear your perspective in the opposite direction.  Where Ranger Regiment might not be the best tool to conduct UW or think out of the box, what weaknesses does SF have? 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

@majrod SF's weaknesses are mostly self defeating institutional structures that exist above the ODA level.  I'd like to write about that at some point but it has a lot of potential to turn into a full blown rant!

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JackMurphyRGR Sure.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on that also but there surely must be some missions/roles where an ODA is not the best tool in the toolbox because of the SF mindset.. 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Tweeder @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @rozhbash @majrod Just being an SF qualified guy is often enough to walk on to a six figure job though.

Tweeder
Tweeder 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @Tweeder @Robertkyle @rozhbash @majrod  

Ouch, thanks for the response.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Tweeder @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @rozhbash @majrod BTW, when you go to the TAPS workshop when you are getting out of the Army they have a program where you type in your MOS and it tells you what jobs you are qualified for.  Only one job for me, security guard. 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@Tweeder @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @rozhbash @majrod 18F yes, 18E not so much I would think unless he really knows the IT side of things.  Not my area of expertise but maybe with a TS and a commo background there are some GS rated jobs out there for them.

Tweeder
Tweeder 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR@Robertkyle@rozhbash@majrod  I also heard 18E/F's have a lot of opportunities where there isn't as much for 18B/C. Without saying too much is this true? I ask because I'm an aspiring 18E.

Great article btw, very professionally done without too much dick measuring. As a man who served in both units, you were definitely the "appropriate" person to write this.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@Robertkyle @JackMurphyRGR @rozhbash @majrod Yeah, 18D's have other opportunities and frequently take them.  I'm pretty much just a mutant as a 18B who weaseled my way into college.

Robertkyle
Robertkyle 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @rozhbash @Robertkyle @majrod Yea I can vouch for Jack here.  Basically SF is considered its own part of the Army, once you go you are are pretty much expected to stay other wise you are looked as a a) a reject b) a wuss who couldn't take the "awesomeness" or c) someone who is too sophisticated to understand.  Medics are a breed of their own.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@kuykendr @JackMurphyRGR Would you want to graduate someone who got in the van from the Q?

kuykendr
kuykendr 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @kuykendr

Wow, I think I can fill in the blanks.  I don't know the semantics of the Q Course, why would that get him booted if you wouldn't mind explaining further? 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@kuykendr @JackMurphyRGR He got wasted and hooked up with some girls online except when the "girls" showed up it was a big fat guy in a panel van.  He actually got in the van.  The story only goes downhill from there. 

kuykendr
kuykendr 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR 

Would you mind elaborating on what Krug did?  We had a Krug in my unit who was kicked from the Q course, he was idolized by alot of the younger guys.  However, it was like he didn't give a damn, about anything.  He was eventually kicked out after repeated undesirable behavior.  I'm just curious as to what made him lose his drive.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Abn_rngr @Erik L @rozhbash @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod Yes, I think Erik pretty much nailed on the maturity issue. 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@Canopylight @JackMurphyRGR @majrod Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying.  I did not know Doc Donovan but had heard about him.

Abn_rngr
Abn_rngr 5pts

@Erik L @rozhbash @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod Here, here.  Never quite understood this maturity issue I read about.  With comparable rank, experience and age, I'd even give a slight nod to the Ranger-being responsible for leading troops speeds up the growing up process.  

Abn_rngr
Abn_rngr 5pts

@Canopylight @JackMurphyRGR @majrod  I remember ol' Doc Dononvan.  1/75 legend.  Similar to Don Lamica and Purdy.  I believe he once said he definitely preferred Rangering to SF'ing but I have no idea why.  Again, long time ago.

Abn_rngr
Abn_rngr 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @majrod Had an E-6 come over back in my day.  Think have might have been right about 1980.  There was no long tab nor SF MOS in those days.  Guy was just fine, but nothing special as far as squad leaders go.  Some of his more experienced guys liked the more laid back style but his newer guys were slower in coming up to speed.  

Similar experience in Ranger School.  Had an SF guy or two in the course.  I figured they would just blow through, no worries.  As far as the ability to plan and conduct small unit ops, they ended up being about average compared to even a Bn private.  Nothing close to what I saw of my NCO's in 1/75.  

Again, can't emphasize enough this is no knock on SF.  Really liked 'em and any SF training course was always top notch, no BS, high quality instruction. This is all 33+ year old recollection, too.

Erik L
Erik L 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@rozhbash @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod I don't think 18 series guys coming to the 75th will add any maturity beyond what is already there, I would say when comparing guys of the same rank, the maturity will be about the same. I would actually even go so far as to say an E-5 in Regiment is probably much more mature/experienced than an E-5 in SF, especially if that E-5 was an 18x. But when you talk about comparing E-6 to E-6, E-7 to E-7, I think you will generally find them on the same level. The immaturity that is seen is usually at the E-4 and below level, which obviously there aren't E-4 and below in SF, so that is a non-issue. What will be interesting is if 75th goes through with their plans to have a CPL be the new lowest rank, and having E-6 TL's, E-7 SL's, etc., will that make the Regiment a little more enticing to SF guys who are disgruntled? Something to think about...

majrod
majrod 5pts

@Canopylight @JackMurphyRGR Thanks for sharing Kind of goes to prove my observation about certain units specialties etc. protecting their cultures.  A PA isn't going to change the way a unit does business outside of the medical realm. 

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @majrod You're talking about Doc Donovan. He was originally a medic in 1/75 turned 18D then came back to 1/75 as a PA. We had a long-tabber turned O when I was at 1/75. I think he was just an ordinance officer or something. Speaking of which, I believe the Regiment at one time was slotted for 18Cs. You'd have to talk to the old guys, but we've definitely talked about it over at socnet. SF guys were a lot more common before they got a MOS.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@majrod The only long tabber I recall hearing about in the Regiment was a 18D who went on to be a PA and was then assigned to the 75th.  My Team Sergeant in SF was not that senior when he left.  I think he was like me, a Team Leader but in 1/75 when he left to go to SF.

majrod
majrod 5pts

JackMurphyRGR rozhbash Robertkyle 

Interesting Jack.  I suspect your right about the petri dish.   Then again, somewhat understandable.  SF and the Rangers have different missions.

Not the same but related, I've never heard of someone commanding a company or BN in Regiment if they didn't serve as a platoon leader, Co CO etc in a BN.  My understanding is it's the same for NCOs.  Did your friend serve as an SL, or PSG in BN or did he skip some positions of responsibility from the time he started in SF and when he got fed up and wanted to return?

It's curious how different branches, specialties, units have unique cultures.

As an aside and it's just a technicality, I don't think there are any 18 series slots in Rng Reg't.  I t does take a little red tape at times even in Reg't to get capabilities.  My buddy was the LTC in charge of Infantry proponency and had to get the Rangers coded for dog handlers because that was an MP specialty up into "05 or so.

Again, these are issues of where mission, unit culture and bureaucracy intersect.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@rozhbash @JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod I'm not sure if it is even possible because when you go to SF your MOS changes to 18-series.  My Team Sergeant also came from Regiment and had a hard time adjusting like I did.  He was so fed up he tried to go back to the Regiment but they wouldn't let him!  I don't think the 75th wants Group guys coming back and contaminating the petri dish so to speak!

rozhbash
rozhbash 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod Yup, like the stupid arrows on the floor of the commissary, it's seriously going against the grain to slide from Group to RGT.  I think senior 18Ds may be the only I've ever come across that have done that.  Jack is correct about the accepted flow out of each of those units, which is a shame because the RGT could use a bit of the maturity you get in Group and honestly, some guys who started off as Batt Boys will miss it after a while and want to go back in a senior slot.  But the thought of actually doing that gets vaporized as soon as you imagine the Ranger cultural impact on it.  It would like being a 30 year old PFC low crawling the stairwell.

Canopylight
Canopylight 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JackMurphyRGR @Phantasos @Robertkyle @majrod 

We talking about Nick the Dick? I never personally had any run-ins with him, but a lot of stuff got stupid at 1/75 when he showed up and after I etsed.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts

@Phantasos @Robertkyle @JackMurphyRGR @majrod The current RSM?  He was my First Sergeant in HHC.  Quite the task master he was!

Phantasos
Phantasos 5pts

@Robertkyle @JackMurphyRGR @majrod  

 Then you'd get to experience the RSM blowing up on the RRC guys for not wearing socks in there minimalist shoes, in civi's in the gym(I'm serious). Seeing the RSM locking up the RRC 1SG is something else.. I feel like the grass is never greener on the other side

Great Article Jack, I definitely see how that dogmatic mindset can impede on UW performance. I'm kind of in the same position currently; coming from regt to the q, so I'm grateful for the perspective.

majrod
majrod 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR That thinking/attitude is not limited to the SOF world.  (just sharing)

@Robertkyle @majrod 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Robertkyle @JackMurphyRGR @majrod In the 75th there is a pretty big stigma about going anywhere other than the holy calling...Delta.  A lot of guys get thrown under the bus for going to SFAS.  I was one of the lucky ones that stayed gainfully employed as a Team Leader until I went to the Q-Course.  You are right about a lot of people not wanting to give up that Green Beret though.

Robertkyle
Robertkyle 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod I know of one guy that did, he was a medic though so those kind of skills are pretty much highly coveted anywhere.  The thing is there is such a stigma going from SF to anywhere other that CAG/the Army of Northern Virginia (i'm not sure if most have heard that that nickname)/AWG/or other JSOC adventures. (All of those places let you keep your 18 series MOS)

If you left the 18 series essentially it would be like agreeing you won't come back out of some sense of saving face.  Its all backward, any red blooded freedom fighter should want to be in place where they made the biggest impact not where they think the red tape is least likely to get them killed.

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Robertkyle @JackMurphyRGR @majrod I think RRC is probably one of the strongest units in SOF.  Have any SF guys migrated over there yet?

Robertkyle
Robertkyle 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod I'd be lying if I said I never thought about putting in a RASP RRC packet before maybe trying to take the long walk

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Robertkyle @JackMurphyRGR @majrod Haha!  That's classic stuff right there.  I'm afraid 18X-Rays did not have the monopoly on bad decisions though.  One 18X you should ask around about is Krug who was in my 18B course.  That tale my be a little bit much for the public at large...but dear god.  I'm glad you got to come back to the course though.  I knew another 18X who got kicked out for certain sexual exploits and had to return to the course after hanging out in LRS for a while.

The bureaucracy is literally destroying Group.  Regiment has it, but more or less the system works.  In Group it is just total dead lock as nobody knows how to get ammo, or trucks, or anything else.  The only strength SF has is the ODA that blows off ridicules orders and regulations when they are away from the flagpole.  Otherwise, SF is more Big Army than the Big Army.  Battalion, Group, and even Company command structures are worse than useless because not only do they fail to help the mission but are actually a detriment to it.  You are far from alone in not re-enlisting after seeing all this.

Robertkyle
Robertkyle 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@JackMurphyRGR @Robertkyle @majrod Funny story for you about my 18-x experience.  So initially when I joined I was smoking the course, got through sopc, selection, sere, peacetime detention, and my first bet of language.  The day I reported to SOCM and completed my orientation I met to batt guys and sort of buddied up with them.  So long story short we end up making some stupid decisions that night.  I got kicked out on world wide assignment with the ability to return in 6 months.  The two RGT Medics got RFS'ed and sent up to Alaska with me (One was KIA during their deployment SGT Ryan Baum).  Long story short I agree about the immaturity thing.  Luckily I was able to get into a scout/sniper section up there and get to a few schools that taught me some skills I wouldn't have learned until after I got to a team.  When I went back to the course I immediately started relating more with the guys who had spent time on the line and tried my best to help the 18x's understand that this was the start of a long journey for them and that not all GB's are equal.  

As for the bureaucratic non-sense... thats why I didn't reenlist.  


JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@Robertkyle @majrod @JackMurphyRGR I had time in the Regiment and I wasn't prepared for the bureaucracy in SF either.  Its really sad to see what happened and is happening to Group.  Alot of guys are bitter.  Two dudes I served in Group with have popped up at my college in the last year with similar stories.  I worked with some great 18X's, I'm still friends with many, one even writes for this site on occasion.  I think the problem with the 18X program was not that the individuals were "bad" in anyway, just that it had the effect of making the force a lot less mature with a lot less military knowledge, but this was happening across the board.  When I showed up to Group I was immediately given the position of Senior 18B on my team.  As a E-5 coming from the 75th, I was not yet qualified for that job as it really belongs to a E-7 who has been in group for at least 5 years.

Robertkyle
Robertkyle 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@majrod @JackMurphyRGRDA is seriously not the bread and butter of any ODA (ever).  Even CIF teams are lulled into a false sense of confidence by either spending time at Range 37 or by having enough former batt boys in our ranks.  

We spent way to much time learning how to conduct UW mission to even begin to perfect the skill set needed to focus entirely on DA missions (I have a lot of faith and respect for the RGT in this regard).  

Even when I did Robin Sage we did a   total of 12 or 13 recon patrols and only did 4 assaults of varying sizes.  Most of the time I think the assaults were used just as Jack explained, to test our ability to think on our feet when shit hits the fan.  

As an 18-x of sorts I appreciate the shout out Jack.  While over all we were good at thinking outside the box, none of us were prepared for the bureaucratic BS that happened inside the group/battalion/company (especially the CIF Company).  

majrod
majrod 5pts

@JackMurphyRGR LOL  Funny!

Interesting observation though.  That would seem like a tailor made mission for a Ranger Co or PLT or (if I dare) MARSOC?  The only downside is the lack of "cultural" training but when a CIF is deployed it would seem to me we've gone a bit past talking. 

JackMurphyRGR
JackMurphyRGR moderator 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

@majrod @JackMurphyRGR I could argue that large scale unilateral Direct Action missions is not an SF mission and that the CIF is basically unnecessary.  You'll see some people running around with their hair on fire after that though...

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