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Home » Op-Ed » Iraq Isn’t Exactly Over

Iraq Isn’t Exactly Over

by Peter Nealen · March 13, 2013 · Posted In: Op-Ed
Iraq Isn't Exactly Over
While the media and many news sites cover the violence in Mali and Syria, it bears mentioning that there are still al-Qaeda and other fundamentalist groups operating within Iraq itself.  Violence increased with the withdrawal of US troops last year, and the al-Qaeda involvement in the Syrian civil war has highlighted the fact that the organization we fought for almost nine years is far from dead.

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On March 11, a suicide bomber in Dibis, northwest of Kirkuk, killed three people and wounded 165, mostly school children at a nearby girls’ school.  On the 7th, two gunmen and an Iraqi policeman were killed in a firefight in Ramadi.  A third gunman, suspected to be al-Qaeda, was arrested.  The three had planted an IED on the road to Anbar University, and had two more in their possession.

On March 4, a convoy of Syrian soldiers fleeing from the war and under escort by elements of the Iraqi Army, was ambushed in western Al Anbar, en route to Baghdad.  48 Syrians and nine Iraqi soldiers were killed.  While it was believed that AQI was involved, on the 11th, the Islamic State of Iraq, AQI’s political arm, announced that they had sprung the ambush, while praising the efforts of “the brothers” in wiping out the “apostates” in Syria.

With US forces withdrawn completely, there isn’t much of a counter to AQI anymore.  We don’t have access to the Sunni tribes in Al Anbar, the same tribes whose formation of the Awakening militias turned the tide in 2007-2008.  There are reports of the CIA moving back into Iraq to attempt to take up the slack.

As if any further illustration is needed, this shows even more how transnational insurgent groups are invalidating Western ideas of borders and national sovereignty.  Viewing these conflicts as separate, national struggles, when the enemy clearly does not, gets us nowhere, and in fact has been, and is continuing to be used against us and anyone who would stand against Islamic fundamentalism.

(Featured Image Courtesy: fivewes.com)

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SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts

Seems like the only people in Iraq worth fighting for are the Kurds. What have we done for them. After the firsr Gulf War we left them to the tender mercies of Sadam. They were still loyal to us after we screwed them. They were the ones who helped our SF take out Sadam's forces in the North West of Iraq. They helped a great deal in Mosul. We need to help them out if we are to spend anymore time in Iraq.

reason1984
reason1984 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

"Iraq Isn't Exactly Over"

 

No shiite.

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts

 @reason1984

 good one

SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

Time to get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Like Vietnam these two countries will fall to the enemy because of tribalism and corruption. The people have to want to live in a democracy and be willing to fight and die for it themselves. We and our allies have done our share and more. We do need to give them a warning before we leave. They must be told in no uncertain terms that if any form of terrorism that effects US interests comes from either Iraq or Afghanistan we will return with a violence that they have seen before.

Minou_Demimonde
Minou_Demimonde 5pts

@SEAL76 --Rorke Denver said basically the same thing in Damn Few. I could have kissed him. He said that we should have gone in, hit them hard, and then pulled out. The rest of the book was well worth the price, but that line alone would have made up for any failures in the rest of the book.

SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Minou_Demimonde @SEAL76  Read the book and liked it. Bush screwed the pooch on that one. Sadam was an asshole and he did have WMD but they were not in Iraq when we got there. Syria probably got them. We had no business going there before we completely finished our mission in Afghanistan. Afghanistan should have taken at lot less time. No nation building. 


Minou_Demimonde
Minou_Demimonde 5pts

@SEAL76 @Minou_Demimonde  I agree. The Russians, the Chinese, and a few others would be happy to do a great deal for the cash. Just makes my faith in mankind raise so much more. Or not. And thank you, too, SEAL76.

SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts

@Minou_Demimonde Iran and Iraq were mortal enemies for years. No doubt that the Iranians could have received nuke material from Iraq. I think the Russians, or Chinese would be glad to help anyone with the cash. I am in awe of the men and women who have served this country in all of our wars.

Minou_Demimonde
Minou_Demimonde 5pts

SEAL76--personally, I've wondered where Iran got their nuclear capabilities so quickly. The two nations hated each other, but it would have been so easy for Iranian agents to slip across the border. Syria is another good possibility. And no, we had no business going in while we were already at war in Afghanistan. Nation building is another one of my pet peeves, too. If you don't understand the socio-political situation, all that happens is that whatever stability there was is gone. Ten years ago, today, one of my friends flew business class to Kuwait. He came home. Far too many didn't. I thank and honor all who went and served. We can argue about the merits of the war, but not about those who served. their merits shine brightly.

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @SEAL76 damn ,that is the best  S 76. I agree 100%.

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @SEAL76 Agree 100%, especially that last line!

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

@AUNITEDPEOPLE @SEAL76 I agree as well - in fact, if we have to return, that violence should result in renaming the Hindu Kush, Glass mountains.

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts

 @SEAL76  @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 agreed -slippery slope there with the chinese - same with the Saudis - supposedto be our friends, but that freindly hand that pats us on the back - has a knife in it as well.

THe Military has enough money - the problem is the "spending wisely' part. The whole procurement system need sto be changed top to bottom. Fot too long we've had to deal with $600  toilet seats and $700 hammers. THis goes all the way back to cavemen buying rocks, I'll bet. As an amateur historian- I've read a s**tload of examples of the exact same thing going on in the War for Southern Indepaendence - from both sides. Greed, corruption, and collusion all round.

SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

   @SEAL76  @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  The Chinese are supposed to be helping the US contain NK. What a fucking joke. The NK's are getting our attention while the Chinese stab us in the back. Of course this would not be a problem if our military had enough money to spend wisely on defensive and offensive weapons systems. That won't happen as long as the 535 senators and representatives figure out their ass from their elbows.

 

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @SEAL76  @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 no problem-o, S76! Should only take one or two to turn Pyongyang into a glass parking lot. Unless China decides to step in, then we can solve two problems at the same time, but leave a couple in reserve for the Kush

SEAL76
SEAL76 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @oldSquid I agree. I just hope we have enough  Nukes etc. After we get through with the North Korean assholes.

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @oldSquid Exactly! I just recently, third party, heard stories of the young boys thing and it blew my mind. I know we can all be hypocritical at some point in our beliefs, but fucking hell, talk about gall!

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I didn't know they knew about female anatomy - being goat f**kers and all... and prefering young boys...

 

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @TKW406  @oldSquid  @SEAL76 Listen to the Mike Wallace interview with the Grand Ayatollah, that fucker cusses under his breath at every question.

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Old PH2  @TKW406  @oldSquid  @SEAL76 LMAO! Roger that! Funny as hell though! :) Didn't know Islam types used such words as they are supposed to be all high and mighty!

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @TKW406  @oldSquid  @SEAL76 

It's slang for a part of the female anatomy, get your lights punched out if you say it!  : )

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Old PH2  @TKW406  @oldSquid  @SEAL76 I cheated and used Babelfish! So you got me on that one!

Old PH2
Old PH2 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @oldSquid  @SEAL76 

Similar but not the same, mixed company so I won't say this out loud.  In Farsi:

کس

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  What's the arabic translation for "huge fucking crater with a glass crust"?  

 

 @oldSquid  @SEAL76 

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @oldSquid   @SEAL76  Or  - Mountains of Glass - جبال زجاج (Arabic)

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

More fodder for the grinder!

 

http://cnponline.org/ht/display/ContentDetails/i/42012/pid/210

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Funny, if you watch the panel videos, notice that on the lower left hand side, it says "recorded live", how else would you record something???

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

More food for thought: (excerpt from my daily FP Situation Report)

 

FP and RAND teamed up for a group talk on the war in Iraq, which began 10 years ago this month. Over four hours yesterday morning, some of the biggest names associated with the war -- from Gen. John Allen, who was instrumental in the Anbar Awakening, to Steve Hadley, national security adviser under Bush 43 -- sparred over questions that, a decade later, clearly still touch a lot of nerves. There were sharp exchanges over everything from failed reconstruction efforts, to whether al Qaeda really was in Iraq, to whether bad intelligence caused the war.

Some quotables:

Hadley, on al Qaeda in Iraq and the justification for war: "You know, Stan McChrystal's book is very interesting because it makes crystal clear that what Iraq became was a struggle against al Qaeda in Iraq. And I remember in the summer -- and I'm not getting partisan here -- I remember in the summer of 2008 when President Obama, then candidate Obama, said al Qaeda was the ball, the Bush administration took their eye off the ball, and they went into Iraq, but al Qaeda isn't in Iraq, al Qaeda is in Afghanistan. And I asked Mike McConnell at the time -- the DC at the time -- 'How many al Qaeda fighters are in Afghanistan today and how many are in Iraq?' And he said, 'In Iraq, there's about 15,000, down from about 20 [thousand], and in Afghanistan there's 200.' So you can say we failed to foresee that Iraq would become the frontline of al Qaeda's struggle against the United States, and I think we did not have the right strategy or the right resourcing in the end of the day to deal with that problem.."

 

Hadley also said: "No one from the intelligence community, anyplace else ever came in and said, 'What if Saddam is doing all this deception because he actually got rid of the WMD and he doesn't want the Iranians to know?' Now somebody should have asked that question. I should have asked that question. Nobody did. Turns out that was the most important question in terms of the intelligence failure that never got asked."

 

John Allen, making the case that the U.S. will not put boots-on-the-ground in another theater for 20 years: "Clearly a 50-nation coalition right now in Afghanistan has been important to us, but my guess is... that it will be 20 years before we undertake something like this again. It's going to be a long time before NATO is going to be interested probably in undertaking something that could look like this again."

 

And Allen on whether U.S. money was well spent in the field: "Something I worry about increasingly as time goes on is the sense that the development strategies in Iraq and now Afghanistan have failed. And that the development dimension of what we have attempted to undertake was either the wrong approach or just flawed from the beginning." 

 

Doug Feith, on pre-war intelligence: "I think that one of the lessons is that we should just be, in general, more skeptical about intelligence and make sure that - you have to rely on intelligence, its as good as it can get, and you try to improve it, but whenever you read it, it should be read very skeptically."

 

And Feith said on civilian reconstruction efforts, historically: "The basic way it happens is you start with the Keystone Cops, always. After a while we get smart, and you get some systems in place, you get some experience, you start to learn what the picture is on the ground.... [S]ometimes a lot of what you know in advance is not only inadequate, it's exactly wrong, as was the case in Iraq over and over again. I mean, a lot of the intelligence about Iraq was precisely wrong; it wasn't simply less than you wanted. And so you start with the KC, you get smarter, you get better, you get skilled, you get teamwork established, and then you disband everybody. And you go to the next event and you start with the Keystone Cops again. That doesn't quite happen with the military."

 

Who was there -- The group included Gen. John Allen, Ambs. Jim Dobbins and Charlie Ries, Chris Chivvis, Doug Feith, Peter Feaver, Steve Hadley, Pete Mansoor, Philip Mudd, John Nagl, Kalev Sepp, Paul Pillar, Ken Pollack, Walt Slocombe, David Sanger, Michael Gordon, Eliot Cohen, Greg Jaffe, Rajiv Chandrasekaran, Michael Gordon, David Rothkopf, and Susan Glasser.

PeteN
PeteN 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE "And so you start with the KC, you get smarter, you get better, you get skilled, you get teamwork established, and then you disband everybody. And you go to the next event and you start with the Keystone Cops again. That doesn't quite happen with the military."

 

I'd argue that it IS happening with the military right now.  I was seeing it in the year before I got out, and my buddies who are still in are telling me it's been getting worse.  Every lesson of the last decade (those which were actually learned, rather than tossed aside because of hubris and/or politics) is being trashed, because "The war is over, now we can finally get back to garrison."

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @PeteN First off, thank for the poignant article, very timely and relevant these days.

 

This is difficult for me to respond to as I have always been a civi, and don't really know too many people in the military, so all I can do is respond based off what I have read/heard/seen, etc.

 

Not to be an apologist for the writer of that statement, but he did say, "doesn't quite happen", so that says to me that yeah, it's going on, it's just not quite as bad. I would say that the military as a whole has learned a lot over the past few years and put that knowledge into practice on certain levels. For instance, there has been a more concentrated effort put towards utilizing SOF units instead of the old stand by of shock and awe, meaning more precision strikes with limited casualties on both sides, both for our troops and collaterally. Now if you are talking bigger picture, like with the big brass, then I can see your point. As far as the 'regulars' go (no disrespect at all), then I can also see your point. But again, I must emphasize, I am just a civi, so what I think I know might not be as accurate as it should be.

 

I would also like to know what you think of Elric's assessment (see below) as I thought his insight was interesting.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  Interesting nuggets there.

 

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod I thought so as well, especially Hadley's fairly frank comments. And Feith's Keystone Cops analogy was aptly put.

oldhippychick
oldhippychick 5pts

Absolutely agree with you on this.  If we are going to ask our warfighters to put their lives on the line, not too mention their arms,legs, eyes, brains,etc. then we need to pony up the money to pay for the war AND for the resultant care for the wounded.  But I am probably smoking pipedreams again...

TKW406
TKW406 5pts

 @dickftr  Cowboy up & get 'er done.  Say what you mean / mean what you say & you can't go wrong!  You'll do fine.

 

@majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE 

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE Thank's to All for the links and have completed the outline (notes). The mathematics curriculum is the most stupid I've ever seen. Once again THANKS to All. I will do my best.   darn sure taking my outline

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod amen to that!

 

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @Recon6  @TKW406  @LauraKinCA 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @oldSquid  Humility is under rated these days.

 

@AUNITEDPEOPLE  @Recon6  @TKW406  @LauraKinCA

 

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @Recon6  @TKW406  @LauraKinCA oh Lord, it's hard to be humble... ;-)

Don't behave yourself or be embarrassed Majrod - we like ya just as you are...

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@AUNITEDPEOPLE @dickftr here's a Michele Malkin article talking about privacy violation in the core curriculum stuff. http://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2013/03/15/time-to-opt-out-of-creepy-fed-ed-datamining-racket-n1534759?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

Elric
Elric 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@majrod @AUNITEDPEOPLE - all except for that pesky Posse Commitatus stuff.

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dickftr  I know it is Glen Beck and the Blaze, but here is a little more insight on the issue:

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/14/is-the-common-core-initiative-dumbing-down-americas-students/

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dickftr  You're very kind.

 

Notes help.  If you're making a speech and nervous rehearse till you're sick of it helps.

 

Know your audience (it's not the school board if it's a public meeting.  The board wants to get re-elected).  Sincerity works but shouldn't be faked.

 

Wish I could help more. 

 

 

  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dickftr I thought that might be the case, based on what I have heard here and there, I just didn't want to make broad statements without knowing all of the facts.

 

And, I agree with you 100% that education is the key to our survival! Education is why we are where we are now. Sheep leading sheep only leads to all of us going over the cliff. I took great pains to pound into my kids basic economics and what it means to be a citizen of this great country. It was a little tough to undo what they were being taught, but my kids are pretty savvy and eventually caught on to what I was saying, so they are good now.

 

Glad you're still involved with your school system, give'm hell!

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE Maj, I wish I had your skill. I'm all in. I must keep control.

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE I'm still doin home work. I have friend's that have children in school. This Common Core curriculum education is indoctrination.  Appreciate your input. Waiting on T9's input. Education is our survival.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dickftr  Participating in discussion like this strengthens your skills. 

 

Notes help.

 

Speak slow.  Be confident.  When they raise their voice, raise yours.  When they scream tell them it doesn't make their point any stronger and remember, humor is a weapon.

 

 

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod  @LauraKinCA  @TKW406 Yeah, I liked that as well, it meant something to me, even though not Catholic. I also like the fact that the first thing he did when he was presented to the masses, was kneel down and ask the people to pray for him. A lesson in that too!

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE It is absolutely a help.Maybe Tango9 will read this. I was taught  American history and an average student. Damn, I Know it now. Indoctrination is upon our young and i'm gettin PISSED. Thank You Sir. old Cowboy venting.      I want to be an . Going to the board meeting. Our children deserve it. HELL I"m not a good debater but I will try.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  When debatably the closest man to God on earth takes the bus, picks up his own bags and pays his own bill it makes you look at one's "leaders" a tad differently...

 

Yeah, there's a lesson there...

 

@LauraKinCA  @TKW406

 

-BLACK-
-BLACK- 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Recon6 The precise reason why I wont touch some of these topics with a ten foot pole. I dont know what the fuck I am talking about and being stupid hurts...even through a damn monitor it can cut deep into onoes ego when you get the retard flag.

-BLACK-
-BLACK- 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@majrod @AUNITEDPEOPLE That was a logical atomo bomb Major... Bravo fuckin Zulu!!

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dickftr  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  First I would say that I would hit up Tango9 for an opinion on education.  He's a teacher by trade.

 

Looked at what @AUNITEDPEOPLE linked.  On the surface it looks fine but the devil is in the details.  The textbooks, actual standardsand enforcement are key along with the teachers.  Obviously any program relies heavily on the quality of the instruction.

 

From what I hear about the actual execution of education these days I'd be in mortal fear for kids' soul.  Texts and educators are left leaning  and indoctrinating rather than teaching our young.  It's a scary time.

 

I'm a big believer on testing and holding teachers students responsible respectively.  I hear horror stories on how some students behave and how some teachers behave.  I was very privleged in the sense that my parents took extra jobs and we had very few frills so they could send my brother and I to private school.  We went on vacation ONCE in my first 18 years on the planet.  My parents never bought new appliances or cars and I wore patched clothes.

 

Anyway the schools I went to were excused from NYC testing because their testing standads were higher than the regents and God forbid I bring less than a B home. 

 

I hope that was of some help but feel it probably wasn't.

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @Recon6  @TKW406  @LauraKinCA

  ok thanks. Y'all can stop now it's embarassing and I'll feel pressured to behave myself and be scholarly.  :(

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  Yes, every once and awhile I stir the pot.

 

The Jesuits have the tradition of being the educators of royalty so their ranks are full of scholars.  The order requires a masters at a minimum and an oath of fealty to the pope.  They also were deeply involved in the inquisition.  Of all the ordersthey also tend to get most politically involved good & bad.

 

 @LauraKinCA  @TKW406

 

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @dickftr 

http://www.corestandards.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative

 

Not really good stuff from what I have heard and read. Interested in your opinion though.

majrod
majrod 5pts

 @dickftr  I have no information about Common Core curricula.  If you have a link I'll do a cursory read and tell you what I think.  I'm pretty traditionalist about education.

 

  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Laura said,"Wasn't just even implemented by parents and the military, schools could paddle  students that got out of line."

I can remember in school - score below 70 on a test - 3 inducements to do better. Forget to bring PE dress(shorts - ugly, baggy, scratchy, Tshirt-ugly, baggy, scratchy, and tennis shoes) 3 inducements to remember tomorrow (PE CLASS- 1 hour long 3x week), decide not to dress (unless note fm Dr.) 3 inducements to dress out. Get caught in the hallway without a pass, or caught acting up, inducements to obey the rules...

school was fun back in the day... but, I was the better for it, got learning and repect for rules, and haven't murdered anybody with an axe... well... not lately anyway...

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod  @LauraKinCA  @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 exacta mundo!

oldSquid
oldSquid 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 Good on Ya, Majrod! Keep up the good work!

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Recon6  @majrod  @TKW406  @LauraKinCA  @AUNITEDPEOPLE DITTO!

Recon6
Recon6 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 8 Like

@majrod @TKW406 @LauraKinCA @AUNITEDPEOPLE Major, you have become a most Welcome addition to SOFREP, requiring many of us to 'Think' prior to commenting and for that you are Appreciated...6

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @TKW406 Done and I apologize.  It was not intentional.

Recon6
Recon6 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

@majrod @AUNITEDPEOPLE Damn Good Rant, Major, thanks....6

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dickftr Sorry I wasn't more help! I tried.

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE Thank's, done that.

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @LauraKinCA  @majrod  @TKW406 I hard a harder time of it, they had to beat it out of me. Not because I was stupid, but I just didn't care. But, self-preservation has a tendency to kick in after a while, so I eventually caught on!

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @LauraKinCA  @TKW406 "Jesuit" well that explains a lot! Aren't they also the scholarly sect of the Catholic church? So tough and smart, a dangerous combination in any form!

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @TKW406  @LauraKinCA Now that is funny! "It's oratorical "tough love"." Beat it out of them with words or deeds!

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod Damn, see what you started here??? I drove home, only 30 mins and my inbox had blown up because of this thread! It's going to take me an hour to catch up!

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dickftr  Well I don't know much about it, but I do know that states like Alabama and Texas have initiatives that will curtail it's use in their schools systems. Not to be petty, but do a quick Google search and you'll see what I mean.

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @StormR  I would disagree with you.  The geniuses in DC had become addicted to spending our money long before Iraq or A-stan.  IMO - There are only three things that Americans are entitled to:  Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.  Everything else if fair game and should be made available on the chopping block.  Don't get me wrong here.  There are a lot of very good programs out there but  America has become spoiled.   Changes & corrections are going to hurt but they need to be made.  The consequences if we don't demand it.

 

@majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE 

dickftr
dickftr 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE I'm way off topic and have a question. What do you know about Common Core education curriculum? My homework on this is looking grim.                    Our boy's are out of school but I'm headed to the next school board meeting. I value your input. Sincerely

DieHardDeuce
DieHardDeuce 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @majrod  @LauraKinCA  @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE As a former cadet (ROTC) I can attest, corrective training is not only relegated to the NCO corps, and works wonders. Speaking from receiving end experience!

StormR
StormR 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TKW406  @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE "The war did not cause our financial issues (they didn't help).  The overwhelming majority of our problems were caused by out of control spending on entitlement programs."   War is an expensive proposition - wars in two different locations is an even more expensive proposition.  What I did not see happen in the government OR by the general population was a recognition  and effort to reallocate resources and funding.  I sure as hell didn't see any general belt-tightening.  There was also an unrealistic expectation by both government and general public that this would be a 'quick' war.  It seems no one wanted to 'hear' the message that the military leaders were trying to spread.   So, I believe that yes, the war was the catalyst for our financial issues because we handled the funding and financing  poorly.  How much money was lost in 'development' projects in Iraq & A-Stan? No, I don't believe that it was strictly the fault of entitlement programs - that is too simplistic an answer. 

DieHardDeuce
DieHardDeuce 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/32839328.jpg

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod  I swear that when I was leaving that principal's office he said, "There's a lesson there."   You didn't happen..........Nah!!   :)

 

 @LauraKinCA  @AUNITEDPEOPLE 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @LauraKinCA Yes, there were witnesses and they got up to.  FREELOADERS!

 

 @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @LauraKinCA  That correction taught me much in life.  Later as an offficer if I had to correct a very menial task I really shouldn't have I made it hurt.  Gave a cadet restriction for two weeks for not being shaven at lunch.  When the company commander came to plead his classmates fate I explained it this way.

 

He's going to be an officer in six months.  he got up and decided not to shave this morning.  His roommate didn't correct him before he left his room.  He stood in Bkfst formation and a SL, PSG & PL didn't do their jobs.  He went to 2-3 classes where again no classmates or fellow officers corrected him.  Same at lunch formation until CPT Rod saw Cadet Snuffy.  If you're going to make me do a caets job it's going to be way expensive.

 

A point was made.  I reinforced it a month or so later when I wrote up EVERY cadet in the company (about a hundred) because I realized cadet leadership had stopped doing daily inspections for about two weeks. (You can always gig someone if you look hard enough)

 

BTW, that same cadet had leather shoes which were highly shined but so old the tips had split to look like a mouth in the toes of his shoes.  He was avoiding buying a replacement pair of shoes.  I left a slice of bread in front of his shoes with a note, "I fed your shoes, they were hungry.  Buy a replacement pair.  Restriction for one week for not having enough sense to replace unserviceable shoes and leave them shined for inspection. Have a nice day :)"

 

RARELY had to make any personal corrections after.

 

 

 @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @majrod  My story:  5th grade, out at recess in January.  Fat kid next to me throws a snowball (huge no-no) and the teacher on duty cant tell for sure if it was him or me and wasn't looking for my input.  Long story short, we both get sent to the principal's office to receive our three "lessons" from the paddle.   Never had to go back there again. Ever. 

 

 @LauraKinCA  @AUNITEDPEOPLE 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @majrod  @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 That is one way of learning for sure! The only school I attended that they still wielded the paddles was in middle school when I was bused downtown Louisville as part of the end of segregation. Watching one or two students earn their punishments was more than enough to put me on the straigt and narrow :)

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @LauraKinCA  LOL, I went to a Jesuit HS. (Jesuits have been referred to as the Marine Corps of the priesthood).  I sat on the floor waiting for a classroom to open ONCE.  Fr. Lux came by and literally kicked me in my thigh.  Rubbing the bruise, mouth agape, I looked up at him and he calmly said, "Gentlemen, don't sit on the floor."  As I was trying to fathom what he was saying he reared back to kick me again.  I scrambled to my feet.  He walked on.  It was only after he started to walk away that I understood what he was saying.  Up until that point I was "stupid".  Pain aversion drove me to my feet.  Trying to understand to avoid future pain helped me overcome a natural tendency not to think.

 

 

 

   @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @majrod 

Wasn't just even implemented by parents and the military, schools could paddle students that got out of line.

 

 @TKW406 

Good list of values to teach and live by example T.

 

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @TKW406  You CAN fix a lot of stupid.  You just have to make it hurt enough that it doesn't pay to not think.

 

I made a lot of waves here when I first arrived when I questioned individuals positions and premises and asked for evidence.  It got really testy.  If people said stupid things I put a spot light on it and let them fight they way out or wilt.  It stopped a lot of "I think", "feel" and "want" arguments.  I wasn't popular (and on some days am still not popular).  It's oratorical "tough love".

 

 @LauraKinCA  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @LauraKinCA  back when corporal punishment was in style  by both parents and the military it was just physically exhausting to be stupid.

 

There's a lesson there...

 

 

 @TKW406  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @LauraKinCA  We like to teach our kids responsibility, honesty & respect for ones elders.  My grandfather always said, "You can't teach common sense and you can't cure stupid."  He didn't have a high school diploma but he was one of the smartest people I've ever known.  Hardest working too.

 

 

@majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE 

LauraKinCA
LauraKinCA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @TKW406  @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE

 Somehow I get the impression that common sense is taught in your household though... just sayin'.

TKW406
TKW406 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 9 Like

 @majrod  @AUNITEDPEOPLE   "The war did not cause our financial issues (they didn't help).  The overwhelming majority of our problems were caused by out of control spending on entitlement programs."

 

Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?  Even my six year old daughter understand that having $5 in her pocket kinda limits how much she can spend.

 

Agreed, nice rant.

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @majrod A tough crowd for sure, hard to get through those layers and layers of the indoctrinated talking points that some people call 'facts'

 

And, whether it's attacking right at the offset of the conversation or trying to derail the debate by, as you say, "defining terms incorrectly", it is exactly what you said, "intellectually dishonesty" and that drives me crazy when people are so short-sighted that they won't even entertain another opinion when it differs from their own.

 

Your examples are classic and I have seen them repeated over and over again, and then there are the trolls... trying to hit them is like shooting a Neo in the Matrix. They run their mouths without any regard to what you say, those are the ones I really hate and there have been a few times when I would I could have gotten my hands on a few!

 

Nice rant btw.

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE off rant

 

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 9 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  LOL, it is a tough crowd.  A lot of ten pound brains.  You learn who you can talk with and who you can't.

 

I really only jump into the fray to correct misperceptions in the event that someone may read someone's especially incorrect musings and think, "Hmmm, that makes sense".  It's especially important there because FP has such a left leaning tendency.

 

There are some often repeated canards but are becoming accepted as fact.  E.G.

 

The "two wars" canard like Afganistan and Iraq were not related.  Well in that case WWII was two wars...

 

"War debt of $3 or more tril, The war was unpaid for.  The war caused our financial problems"  These almost always get a BS flag from me.  We spent more than $2 tril ONLY if you add up the cost of this war differently than any other war in our history.  Why would you do that?  EVERY war is unpaid for.  We don't schedule them and budget accordingly.  Why would one observe that about this war and not the others?  The war did not cause our financial issues (they didn't help).  The overwhelming majority of our problems were caused by out of control spending on entitlement programs.  Again, why the conscious effort to misconstrue?

 

SF and drones are the answer to all the ills of the world (I've discussed this before)

 

"Iraq made us ignore the enemy in Afghanistan."  Cough, cough, the enemy was in Pakistan genuis.  How would placing the WHOLE US Army in Afghanistan kill one bad guy in Pakistan? Don't get me wrong.  I'm not defending Iraq.  I'm just attacking the canard about Iraq causing our problems in Afghanistan and why would someone try and link the two.

 

Then there's the very common use of "neocon"  to apply to anyone with an ounce of conservative thought.  "Neocons" were disatisfied Democrats who wanted to use all forms of American power especially military to expand democracy in the world.  Some Republicans embraced this train of thought and applied it to Iraq and Afghanistan.  There are very few folks that feel it's the US' job to further Democracy and that it's a duty.  That's a neocon.  many that use the term mislabel the opposition to discredit them before starting the debate.  I always ask why use an inaccurate label?  Is it because your argument is that weak you have to attack the opponent and not the core elements of the debate?

 

We see the same loaded language in high capacity mags which are actually standard capacity.  Assault weapons that don't exist, assault rifles exist and aren't available to private citizens.  Automatic weapons which are really emi-auto. 

 

These are all efforts to control the debate by defining terms incorrectly.  It is intellectually weak and disingenuous.  Many don't realize they are being corraled.  I'm just one voice holding one gate open for free thinkers...

 

And I really enjoy throwing throat punches and gouging the eyes of the intellectually dishonest.  Make it hurt enough and they are a bit more timid trying to indoctrinate the masses.

 

AUNITEDPEOPLE
AUNITEDPEOPLE 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @majrod I wanted to follow that discussion/seminar, damn having to work for a living!

 

Indeed it is a danger and even though I read a lot over there, mainly the articles and not the comments, I really don't have the mental fortitude to comment over there much, it makes my head hurt trying to reason and have a civil discourse with a concrete block. Kudos to you for trying though!

majrod
majrod 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @AUNITEDPEOPLE  I'm following the discussion at the seminar in Tom Ricks blog.

 

Some interesting commentary and partisan flailing.

 

I got engaged in a side discussion with one guy who thinks JSOC, CIA and Drones is a 'law enforcement" approach to terrorists. (banging head against wall)  Such is the danger of engaging on FP.com

 

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